Taking a pre requisite for medical school as pass or fail and then retaking the class?

Pre-Med & Medical School Pre-Med Topics
1

I chose to do this because I will be changing schools, I am going from a quarter system to a semester system. Since I am changing schools I will need to retake my chemistry class regardless because the quarter system chemistry will not fulfill the same credit as the semester system credit for chemistry. So I chose to take the class pass/fail. Was this a bad decision? I am a freshman in college and I hope to get into medical school.

I chose to take it pass/fail because I wanted to simply learn the material without stressing too much about my grade. I feel we learn better when we focus on learning instead of just trying to get a grade.

I will be taking the chemistry class in the semester system for a letter grade.

BTW. I currently have a good grade in my chemistry class, and I expect that I will earn an A. Wish I had known this earlier, but I was just playing it safe and I didn’t want to get a bad grade in chemistry.

I will be transferring to community college because I want to be closer to home and save money. I am currently a student at UC Davis, but I don’t like the price and the class sizes even though I am doing well in school. I want to transfer to a private college with smaller classes. I am going to do this by going to community college and then transferring to save money.

2

Unfortunately, what you’re doing will not look good to adcomms.

The assumption for the P/F will be that you were not doing doing well in the class, that at best you would have earned a C, perhaps even a C- or D. (Why else would a pre-med take pre-req P/F?) Then you transfer to CC–which will be viewed a step down in competitiveness from your UC–and the picture is not one of student who challenges himself academically. And now you’ve put yourself in a bind because even if you do earn an A in your gen chem class at the CC, the impact of that A will be lessened because it’s your second time through the material and an A grade is expected.

I understand why you made your decision, but it probably wasn’t the best choice you could have made. (My older D transferred from a quarter system college to a semester system college and only got partial credit for her classes. However, she didn’t repeat coursework. Instead she petitioned the chem dept. to allow her to advance to the next level class–something that was readily granted. She did have to take some additional classes to make up for having 3 credits instead of 4 for some GEs required for graduation, but she took different classes and didn’t simply repeat ones she had already partial credit for.)

BTW, attending a private college doesn’t necessarily guarantee you smaller classes. Unless you attend a very small college with just a couple of thousand students, intro level classes (including OChem) are still going to be huge lectures with several hundred students.

3

I am a freshman. I’ve heard of freshmen in college fail and med schools are lenient and they want to see improvement. I’m not trying to go to a top tier med school, just any medical school. I don’t think that the name of the school determines the quality of the Doctor.

Just as the name of the school (UC Davis) doesn’t determine the quality of professors and teaching. The professors here are horrible, everyone of my high school teachers taught me much more efficiently than these professors. The professors I had at community college were also better. I came to UC Davis because I assumed the education would be superior, but I quickly realized that the education is actually inferior to the education I could receive at my community college in smaller classes. In my opinion all UC stands for is the name. Their focus is on research and I’ve realized they don’t care much about their students. I try to go to get help to clarify concepts in my classes, but the instructors don’t know how to teach, their training is in research and not teaching. They basically just point to pages in the book. Yes I do figure out how to solve the problem, but I don’t understand what’s important, the concepts.

So, I did take this class pass/fail. Only because I didn’t want to stress about a grade, because I am going to have to stress about the grade I will get in my semester system chemistry course. I didn’t want to stress about it twice.

4

I think adcomms will understand. I am trying to save money, and I’m going to have to take the semester system chemistry course for a grade.

5

I agree with WOWM. There is little explanation can be done in the med school application. There are 7-8000 applicants applying to any single med school every year, so the competition is fierce, the adcomms will compare your stats with all the others and if they have to pick 100 out of 7000 which would they prefer? A student take P/F on chemistry or an A in one sitting? While not every single course will determine your acceptance, that one score alone is one strike to your application.

I think if you do well in Davis you will have a better chance to get into a med school, rather than make a lateral move to a smaller school, some thing like Azusa or Mills for example , unless you can upgrade your school to like Middlebury or Mudd. You need to review the success rate from the target school before jump ships. OTOH, if you are failing(to be competitive for med school) in Davis, this discussion is basically academic.

6

I don’t think there is a way to completely ruin your chances of getting into medical school. It’s not a one size fits all situation. Watch this video: http://youtu.be/UCdqrtgBk54

7

@GeromeUCD

I understand everything you’ve said.

Yes, there are a (very, very) few freshmen who fail classes and still manage to make it into med school, but seldom directly into med school from undergrad and often into osteopathic med schools which allow grade replacement. (MD programs do not.) Remember those cases are the rare exception and not the rule.

Yes, med school adcomms want to see improvement if you have a rough landing in college, but they’re not going to forgive any poor grades that have lowered your GPA. The average med school matriculant has a GPA ~3.7.

And that’s a feat that over 60,000 well qualified individuals try to do every year. And 60% of them don’t get a single acceptance.

California is an especially competitive environment for pre-meds. UCLA alone graduates more pre-meds every year than there are med school seats–public AND private–in the entire state of California. Additionally California doesn’t have in-state preference in admissions so you will be competing with a national pool of applicants for those seats. Lastly 5 of CA’s med school are in the top 25, which mean applicants to those schools have sky high stats and exceptional achievements. Two more are mission-driven (UCR and Loma Linda) and unless you fit the mission-specific criteria, you’re unlikely to get an admission.

Again, I agree. Yes, the name of your undergrad isn’t all that important when it comes gaining a med school admission. But moving from a challenging to a less challenging educational environment is not something adcomms want to see. It’s black mark against you.

And, yes, there are professors who are poor teachers. (BTW, private colleges, even teaching focused LACs, aren’t exempt from that issue either.) But med school admissions are looking for applicants who have demonstrated success when faced with academic challenges & adversity. This include coping with less than ideal teachers. (Because bad teachers are a fact of life everywhere. You’ll have plenty of “bad teachers” in med school too since most med school professors are academic researchers who are exactly like the professors at UCD you just complained about.)


To succeed in college (and med school) you need to be self-teacher. One who seeks out additional material  and resources to supplement whatever is covered in lecture and assigned readings. You can't just be a passive vessel waiting for someone to 'explain it all to you' (TM). You have to go above and beyond  what is covered in the classroom and teach yourself-- because that's just how college works. 

You now already have 1, possibly 2, black checks next to your name. The whole game in med school admission is to minimize that number. Because you're competing against an very deep pool of well qualified applicants, most of whom will have no black marks.
8

There are infinitely many paths, I believe. One path isn’t always the right path for everyone. If you want to become a doctor and get into medical school, I believe you can if you work hard enough. I want to be closer to home and save some money. I didn’t get any financial aid from UCD and it makes it difficult for my family. I’m not ready to get loans.

9

Do you want data?

Start here:
[Study: College Transfer Students May Have Trouble Getting into Med School](http://www.usnews.com/education/best-graduate-schools/top-medical-schools/articles/2012/11/01/study-college-transfer-students-may-have-trouble-getting-into-med-school)

More from the same article–

[Pre-Med</a> Myths](<a href="https://www.geneseo.edu/premed/myths%5DPre-Med">https://www.geneseo.edu/premed/myths)


[quote]
**Myth #3:**
"Freshman year doesn't really count. I'm just starting college. Besides, I can repeat any courses I did not do well in."

**Reality:**
**ALL** grades count, although medical schools will look at the overall trend of grades. They will analyze a transcript and examine the number of courses per semester, course levels, number of science courses and academic performance. A strong upward trend in grades is necessary for applicants with a weaker, earlier, record.

Repeating courses for medical admission is generally not recommended as repeated courses for MD admission will be averaged. Instead, the schools would prefer to see students take advanced work in the same subject and do well.

[/quote]

California — 6520 med school applicants; 910 in-state matriculants (14%)

[Applicants to U.S. Medical Schools by In or Out-of-State Matriculation Status, 2015-2016](https://www.aamc.org/download/321466/data/factstablea5.pdf)

For average applicant and matriculant stats–
[MCAT and GPA Grid for Applicants and Acceptees by Selected Race and Ethnicity, 2013-2014 through 2015-2016 (Aggregated)](https://www.aamc.org/data/facts/applicantmatriculant/157998/factstablea24.html)

10

I’m basically going to be starting at a community college. My reason is to save money by living at home and going to a college with a much lower tuition price. This is a valid reason. My family lost our home 2 years ago and we have a large debt, so I do have a reason.

I’m not going to hurt my family financially just so I can go to this school that has overcrowded classrooms.

11

You’ve obviously made your decision.

Please come back and let us know how it works out for you.

Please understand that you’re not starting over. All your grades must be reported and transcript sent when you go to apply for med school.

AMCAS Instruction Manual 2017, p. 21

12

@GeromeUCD , you would be wise to listen to @WayOutWestMom , she is the parent of 2 medical students and knows her stuff. What you have heard or think you know, doesn’t make it so. One of the first things med students learn is to listen.

13

Well, actually parent to ONE med student and ONE physician now, @CottonTales.

14

@geromeucd

  1. What is not clear is, your family or financial situation did not change in the last 2 months. So you had some plan and reasoning behind your decision in joining UCD. So not clear how finance is playing a critical factor in your current decision? Is it just because UCD disappointed your expectations?
  2. Besides hard (subject) lessons, we all learn soft lessons when we grow. So what are you facing in UCD is nothing unusual and that is the reality. We need to adapt to the situation and find a way to succeed. What makes you to conclude that all teachers are going to be of the same caliber in UCD? Only very few people find a perfect school, perfect spouse, perfect house, perfect boss, perfect child! We need to focus on what we can control.
  3. Since you are very serious, did you estimate how much really it is going to save. Because even if you go to CC for sophomore then again need to get in to college for last 2 years where the difference between UC and CalState or private colleges is going to be minimal. Have you thought of any other way to contain the cost, like is it possible to do the UG in 3 years in UCD or working or what ever other possible avenue?
15

I agree with Goldenrock and mom. There are certainly many paths to medical school but there are hard ways and even harder ways. I certainly would never tell anyone to do it my way. It is not unusual to be unhappy during your early days in College. Counseling may help. Transferring to a CC without a good reason demonstrates a lack of commitment which is essential to the long road to becoming a physician. More than 80% of your fellow freshman pre meds will not make it to medical school. Transferring to a CC is academically a step down and will be seen in that light even with good grades. Going to a CSU makes getting into medical school more difficult. A small private LAC might make you more happy but will not likely be less expensive than your UC. If you wish to transfer do so directly to a LAC after one or two years.

16

@WayOutWestMom, my mistake. Details, darn details! X_X

17

Okay, not a whole lot of instate residents get aid from UCD so it makes it difficult for most families.

How will you pay for med school? It’s not free, no matter how hard you think you can work; money does not fall off of trees.

WOWMom can give you more accurate costs but right now, you need to save upwards of $200K, minimum.

My daughter attended and graduated from Davis. She had a hard time in freshman classes but eventually graduated with a degree in NPB (Neurophysiology, Biology and Behavioral Science) and loved her upper division profs! She graduated with 999 other med school hopefuls.

Not only do you have to get the grades, you also need the exposure to the medical community around you. When will you do that in your CC?

My daughter was able to work in several Davis labs; she received her LOR’s from those supervisors.

She also volunteered in a free diabetes clinic in Sacramento and took vitals, medical histories, prepped labs and did intake. Davis has a med school accessible to its students. As a Davis student, you would have had priority for positions in the clinics and in the hospitals.

Did you really think this through?

You seem to be defensive and pretending to know EVERYTHING and so much more than posters who have seen their kids become physicians. Re read through the advice and take heart, you don’t know everything, otherwise, why post questions if you don’t care to hear the responses?

18

Please remember that you came here for advice from those with experience. You’re fighting everyone.

Please go and see if you can change the P/F option to a grade. It may take a signature from a dean. Don’t just take the answer from a website or any random person. Sometimes a dean can over-ride.

I think it’s silly to think that you’re going to transfer later to a private. That will cost MORE money.

A large percent of Calif students are attending a UC with aid…either UC grants or Cal Grants. Your family’s income must be too high for either. Have you had your parents talk to the FA office to see if they can give some Professional Judgment in regards to that debt and lower your EFC? If the debt is due to credit cards, then probably no consideration, but if it’s due to medical bills or some other catastrophic situation, they might.

19

According to the OP’s most recent posts, he’s now interested in transferring to PetE degree at a CSU after finishing 2 years at a CC.