My son seems to be sliding on from A’s to A minus and B’s in grade 8. I never thought he was an all-honors kid, but now I’m worried even honors math might be a stretch. What percentage of colleges does this exclude him from? I know that’s a tough question to answer but I really have little clue. Thank you!
As an 8th grade? He isn’t excluded from any colleges.
There are 3000 or so colleges in this country. There really are many colleges for every student.
I am asking how many colleges require kids to take mostly honors classes to be considered for admission. If it’s most, we might try to help him bolster math this year ahead of high school. If not we won’t.
I mostly agree with thumper1 however, 8th grade math track does impact HS course sequence. We had friends, who because of middle school math, weren’t on track to get to calculus by senior year. While that isn’t required for college admissions, T20 STEM programs tend to prefer to see kids taking the most rigorous math and science courses offered.
That said, if he’s struggling now, there is no point in trying to push him into an honors class.
Tutoring though may not be a bad idea!
I’m confused. Are we talking no honors courses across all disciplines, or specifically no honors math? Not having honors math might not be a big deal for a non-STEM kids not looking to major in STEM. Even kids in non-honors math can reach calculus with some planning, although it might not be AP.
Not having honors classes at all will certainly knock out some at the top tier, but there are still thousands of choices. And it is not uncommon for students to move up (and down) in track once in HS.
Old time CC posters know this story… but it’s worth a repeat.
Our DD was recommended for accelerated math in 8th grade. We called the math teacher as well as the math department chair and asked if there was some compelling reason why the kid should be accelerated. They were gomsocked that someone even asked. They couldn’t give us a reason…so we graciously declined the offer.
We were the first ever parents to decline math acceleration. Our DD was in regular math classes all the way through high school…no honors math. Her last math class was precalculus.
Her undergrad degrees were in engineering and biology…imagine that? She took calculus in college.
Our reasons for declining…my husband is an engineer. He strongly believed that a solid math foundation was far more important than accelerated courses. Our kid graduated HS with a very strong math foundation. Her college math grades were excellent…and she took quite a few higher level math courses to satisfy her degree requirements.
Life doesn’t end if a kid isn’t accelerated in math in 8th grade.
OP, you are asking the wrong question. The question to ask is, “should we help our kid who seems to be having a lit of bit of trouble in math” and the answer is “it depends”. Does the teacher think it’s a problem? Start there. If your kid understands the concepts but runs out of time on quizzes- that’s an easy fix- spend more time on homework to gain greater facility and speed with calculations. If the teacher thinks he’s checking out mentally or not paying attention- deal with that. If your kid has decided that math is boring and he can’t focus- deal with that.
College is a long way off. Start with where you are right now- maybe it’s a problem, maybe it’s not. Try to figure out why. And has he had an eye exam recently?
Everyone should work to their potential in high school but no one should be choosing honors courses primarily to get into “a good college”. Take the hardest courses you can that are challenging but not overwhelming. For most that means a mix of honors and non-honors courses and - yes - there are plenty of competitive schools that will accept that mix of core subjects, especially if he maintains a high GPA.
Some schools will offer a non-honors track for math that finishes with regular (not A/P) calc. so there may, in fact, be a few options for your son, OP.
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And couldn’t agree more with @thumper1 that a solid math foundation is more important than accelerated courses. The best math track is the one that your son finds challenging but not overwhelming and at which he can do the majority amount of work w/o a lot of outside help. The concepts are simply too important to rush through.
Are you complaining about A-s and B’s? Those are seriously good grades and say nothing about your son’s ability to complete honors courses in HS. He’s already in 8th so math placement for middle school is a non-issue. For HS, the honors classes might not be worth your time. My daughter was happy to not get into AP at her school, instead getting into honors which she thought would be more interesting than a lot of test prep, then she found out the honors classes were all year-long prep classes for the SAT subject tests. It was tedious and awful and she likely would have gotten a more broad and better foundation in the regular class. How do they handle HS math placement? I’m guessing you don’t even have first semester grades yet. Relax! A D would be alarming but A-? That’s just a silly thing to worry about.
I think it all depends on your school system and child. My child nearly failed out of middle school so to speak. He was bored to death and did not apply himself nor do homework. When it came time for hs we opted for all honors and later all ap. The issue wasnt the understanding of the material, the issue was boredom. So my recommendation is to figure out what is going on. Is it boredom or difficulty with the material? From there you can make a decision. And Middle school has no bearing on college.
If he is struggling you shouldn’t push him into a higher level. It won’t get easier and the potential is there that he will become frustrated and stressed for the next 3-4 years. It’s so not worth it. It could turn him Off to math altogether. Let him excel at the level he is at. The majority of colleges will be available to him.
I am just flabbergasted that people would be suggesting that slipping from an A to an A- or B before final year grades are in could be considered “struggling”. That is not struggling, that is excelling. 8th grade is a great place to suffer some bad grades and reap some consequences for slacking off (if that is even what’s happening). My daughter is the top student in her class in 7th grade and she gets the occasional B. As can be very rare. She is the only student in her grade who got all As this past quarter - just one kid of 100. Unless every kid in the class is getting an A to A+, an A- or a B is a solidly decent grade. I know some schools grade-inflate pretty crazy but you’d be hard-pressed to find any schools where an A- or a B is cause for any kind of academic concern. I wonder if this is a joke?
This timing is interesting as we just had this conversation over the weekend about my 9th grade son. He is registering for classes next year and has similar questions. He has always been in the all of the accelerated programs and is sailing through honors Geometry and honors chemistry but is resisting taking honors classes next year. Ultimately he will probably end up looking at a STEM major and fortunately we are family friends with the science department head at his high school and sat down with him to discuss the issue.
The advice we received was that unless he was chasing the VAL that backing off and taking some of the non-honors classes would be just fine. Given that he is accelerated in math already he will still get to Calc by moving out of the honors classes but the advice was maybe not to take AP calc but maybe business calc when he is a senior. This will give him the calc foundation, should he need to take more advanced math later on but not overwhelm him with advanced math should he decide to go in a different direction.
Our other concern was his science track. Given the ease he finds with Chemistry we thought the next logical step would be physics and then advanced physics however we were advised to go a different route. The science department head recommended a step backwards to take biology based on ACT/SAT test prep. Biology is a larger part of the tests than physics and by skipping bio he would be hindering himself in terms of test prep. We had never considered this part of the equation.
At the end of the day the department head said the best thing to do is to chart 4 years out in 8th grade, knowing things can always be changed, to set up a game plan to hit everything that is needed. This means identifying the courses desired but not necessarily the regular/honors/AP as that can be decided later on and ultimately is not critical if you are not chasing the VAL or Ivy track.
This advice hit our son perfectly as he really doesn’t know what he would want to major in but does know he is not interested in the highly selective school track as that is just not his group.
@iaparent
My thoughts is it is good to take AP calculus…but you can still take calculus 1 again in College if you want. That is what I, the engineer did.
Science: He should take Bio, Chemistry, Physics, and then an AP version of one of those.
i would recommend taking honors classes if your son can do well in them. The kids who take honors classes are more academically focused than those in the “college prep” classes.
Not at my kids’ high school. The college prep kids were just that…college prep.
The difference at our HS was that the honors classes sort of expected the kids to teach themselves, or already know and be able to use the material.
YMMV, of course. But college prep kids at our HS were not slackers.
^Concur with Bio, Chem and Physics. Not sure that an AP version is strictly necessary unless he can do well in it. Much better to be challenged but not overwhelmed - rigor is the endogenous variable here. So is choice of college.
The odd thing is that our high school changed the science track this year to better prepare students for college. The track used to be Bio, Chem, Physics but now they have taken Bio out and made it somewhat optional, to allow for higher level science in the last 2 years of high school. While this may give the top students an advantage down the road it is short changing the bulk of the kids and this was expressed by the department head.
I agree with Thumper, our honors track does involve much self learning. My son is a self learner and as a result is at close to 100% in both honors geo and chem but moving forward he is looking to prepare himself for learning from “the experts” as opposed to creating his own path to learning which I think will serve him well long term. He has taught himself his whole life (for the most part) and needs to experience learning from someone else that is more knowledgeable which is a skill very useful long term.
Rather than try to match the kid to a list of colleges, match the college selections to the kid.
Just want to say that it’s not always a given that they can change tracks in high school. At our HS it’s difficult to change tracks in math. You must have an A average (not A-) and need the permission of the department head. It’s not impossible but it is very very difficult to do.
^ Same was true in my DD’s HS.