<p>I also have a few questions about preview lessons:</p>
<p>We plan on touring East Coast schools after picking D up from Tanglewood.
Our plan is to tour from Aug 12-Aug 20 I have gathered from reading posts that Fall is a bad time for visits(is this considered fall on East Coast? However this is the only time we can do it because we live very very far away and we have to combine this tour with the summer program for air travel cost reasons. D will be a senior in high school in the fall.</p>
<p>D wants to tour Yale because she is interested in the certificate of music program for younger singers without BM . My guess is that is a really hard program to get into. Does anyone know how difficult that is? How talented one must be?</p>
<p>D is talented with a lot of potential and has very high academics. We are looking for scholarships and want to limit our tours to the schools she has the best chance for scholarships. We can only "afford" about 15,000 per year even though our EFC would say that we can afford the whole cost. We have a large family and a very high cost of living. So we want to make this tour cost effective considering we will be driving and have a limited amount of time.</p>
<p>Can anyone tell me schools where 25,000 in merit aid with combined academics/talent is possible?</p>
<p>D is very interested in Peabody and Oberlin along with Yale (free certificate program) and Carnegie Mellon </p>
<p>Boston U is a top choice if aid is right and of course Michigan and Indiana </p>
<p>Obviously, since money is such an issue for us we will consider other schools as long as they have a strong opera program.</p>
<p>My daughter's voice teacher doesn't think she needs to be audition ready to do a class with a prospective teacher. She sees it as more of a chance for my daughter to determine if she likes the teacher, rather than for the teacher to become a cheerleader for her. I did not give my daughter enough credit in knowing how to judge a teacher after one lesson but I was wrong. She did a great job of describing her likes and dislikes.</p>
<p>As in any kind of interview, it is important to put one's best foot forward. Just as you should never turn in a "rough draft," even if someone asks for one, lest it leave a lasting bad impression, you should not play a piece that is only at the rough draft stage for these "lessons" lest you leave the teachers with a poor impression. The pieces needn't be audition quality, but they probably should be near-audition quality in the senior year. And I agree that the pieces should be the ones that will be played at the audition. Teachers at both of the schools where my kid had lessons commented on improvement at the audition.<br>
As to the screening CD's, they should be top quality. The schools that require them, such as Juilliard, have a lot of applicants and you don't want to be weeded out at that stage. My kid spent hours and hours on his, did it over several weeks, as he "perfected" each piece. It payed off for him; for some schools he just relied on the CD as his audition, and was accepted.</p>
<p>nycm, I've only recently started reading CC's Music Major thread (after spending harrowing hours reading "chance me" threads that make my son look like a bowl of vanilla pudding!) and am wondering if perhaps he ought to rethink his senior schedule. He's a singer but has been taking Spanish (because it was offered in middle school) but wants to drop it for Ap Music Theory. This makes sense, but it has occurred to us that he could actually NOT take science next year (he's signed up for AP Environmental Sci--he's already taken Bio, AP Bio, Honors Chem and made B's--didn't love the work especially) in order to take German or Italian. He'd still have AP English, Honors Statistics, and AP World History to fill out his academic side.</p>
<p>Lab Sciences take up so much time. His Spanish teacher says "You must have four years of high-school Spanish" and his misguided mom (me) says, "really, you ought to have FOUR years of science." But should he, really?</p>
<p>neumes - I say skip the science. Language or AP theory are infinitely more valuable to a music major. (My advice may be worth what you paid for it, but there it is.) Both of my younger kids skipped 4th year science, with no regrets.</p>
<p>singermom1 - I hear you about the finances. I don't have any solid advice for you. I wanted to mention two things:
a) We pay room and board plus a couple thou for my kid's Juilliard education. A great bargain in my opinion. Rest is merit - totally unrelated to financial need, despite what their website says. Don't rule out schools due to finances - just be prepared with back ups.
b) Merit aid for tuition is a freebie. Merit aid for room and board is taxable income. Just so you're aware.</p>
<p>August is not considered fall on the east coast. It is still summer. It is not the best time to visit schools because they either will not be in session or, if they are, the regular teachers are likely to be elsewhere. Still, any visit is better than none at all.</p>
<p>I have not heard of any free programs at Yale at the undergraduate level. Do you have any links to this?</p>
<p>Unless your daughter is among the best of the best, $25K in merit aid is going to be hard to find. Music schools get more applications from female singers than they know what to do with and have little incentive to throw that much money at a student unless they are simply stellar. If she is in that category, you may wish to consider Curtis in Philadelphia. Tuition is free, but there is no dorm or cafeteria and living expenses and books can easily run to $15K per year. Oberlin frequently gives merit aid in the $10K range, but even that might be hard to get for a female vocalist. Peabody is not known for offering a lot of merit aid. I do not know about BU or CMU.</p>
<p>Some universities, like Yale, Harvard, Princeton, expect students to have 4 years of science and math. 4 years of language is probably enough. If your kid is considering applying to such schools, check out the requirements on line.</p>
<p>Singermom - are you concerned about the schools that have large masters programs in vocal performance? This is something I struggle with. I am told by many that having a large post graduate program will hinder her performance opportunities and even keep her from doiing the ensemble work that she wants because she will be competing with graduate students for everything. On the other hand, the schools with the post graduate programs have more choices of faculty and she won't be pushed to do material beyond her maturity level. I'm struggling with a balance here.</p>
<p>Fall is a great time to visit, just busy. Ap 12 - 20 is still summer here, though and you may find some teachers available and others on vacation.</p>
<p>Yale School of Music is a graduate school only, so everything about undergrad music performance is tricky there, although there are many wonderful music opportunties. I'm not sure what you mean by a certificate. Yale does provide the possibility of obtaining teacher certification in music (and many other disciplines)
The Ivy League schools also have an agreement to offer ONLY need-based financial aid, so no merit aid is possible there. The New York Times published some statistics in the Education Supplement (4/22/07) that show schools what schools have done this year in terms of both need-based and merit-based aid. <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/22/education/edlife/data22.html?_r=1&ref=edlife&oref=slogin%5B/url%5D">http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/22/education/edlife/data22.html?_r=1&ref=edlife&oref=slogin</a></p>
<p>I agree with binx that the extra language class will serve him far better than a fourth year of a lab science. While you would expect the Spanish teacher to want to hold on to a good student, Italian and German are much more important languages for singers who want to do standard classical repertoire. Voice majors should get training on singing in English, Italian, German and French while in college, but prior experiences with those languages can be very helpful.</p>
<p>Most music schools will not accept even a 5 on the AP Music Theory test for credit, although the knowledge gained may let him start in a higher level theory class.</p>
<p>Princeton has a music "certificate" program, which is their version of a minor. It "begins" in junior year and Princeton will pay for lessons for students in the program. Of course, in junior and senior year at Princeton much time is taken up with junior and senior theses, so it might be a challenge. I don't know if they have any opera teachers, though there are a lot of choral groups there and singing under the arch is a popular event.
Yale music school is for graduates, but they do have a 5 year BA/MM program with the music school. Only a very small number of students are admitted.
Columbia-Juilliard is also a program for the very few -- getting into Juilliard and Columbia (both of which have very low admission rates) does NOT guarantee that you will be admitted into the BA/MM program, or even that you will get free lessons.
It would be the rare musician who could keep it going at a high level (with a mind to becoming a performer) at these schools. The stories of YoYo Ma at Harvard, etc., usually leave out the fact that such musicians already had management when they started there.</p>
<p>binx
Thanks that is very good advice! I was wondering if that was sometimes the case in regards to merit aid. We had ruled out Juilliard but now we may check it out!</p>
<p>Bassdad,</p>
<p>Personally I have no idea how stellar an applicant d is. This is all new to us. Her teacher with DM in voice from Michigan says she has potential to become well-known. Everyone who has heard her says how beautiful her voice is. She was accepted into Interlochen and Tanglewood for this summer. That is all the info I have on the talent. </p>
<p>We would rather have her in a school where she can also explore other areas of interest. So probably not strictly conservatory. She is interested in Yale because she could maybe take other courses and it's an Ivy which has always been her dream. If the singing ends up not being what she wants we want her to have other options for grad school. Maybe Med school(again needing to save money now to help her pay for this)</p>
<p>I love her voice and could listen all day but then again I am biased:)<br>
She has potential but obviously needs much more training so I don't know where that puts her among all of the other sopranos.</p>
<p>Singermom, now is a good time to decide what you can "afford" or are willing to pay. If your D is truly amazing, then Juilliard and other top conservatories might be worth a try. Think twice, if you really cannot do close to full tuition. Even a very great singer (or instrumentalist) is not likely to get more than $5-10k merit at Eastman, Oberlin, MSM, Peabody, and CMU. BU sometimes seems to offer money - could be worth a try. The best bet for an affordable education will be State U's.</p>
<p>Hello Neumes, I'm with Binx, Unless he is passionate about science, I'd let it go. Our experience is that colleges (including Yale, Harvard, Princeton) don't have strict rules about 4 years of anything, as long as students have met their high school graduation requirements. Two AP classes senior year may be plenty if he is also planning on auditions (colleges don't like to see big drop in grades). AP Music Theory could interesting/difficult/easy/boring depending on how much prior theory or ear training he's had. Best advice I can offer is to let him pursue classes where he will be happy, motivated and successful, since senior year is hard and stressful enough.</p>
<p>In my kid's case, since he was applying to some of the ivy league schools, he decided to take AP science and math in his senior year. Instead of giving up the APs he gave up a second instrument and orchestra. It worked for him.<br>
One thing to keep in mind is that music is not a great hook at these schools -- they have loads of musical applicants. Not taking the most rigorous courseload will make the student less competitive in a very competitive field. The schools may not strictly require 4 years of science and math, but if you don't have it, you may well reduce your chance of admission. If these schools are not high on your list, it is another matter.</p>
<p>DD will take AP theory her senior year and is taking first year Italian. She is still trying to decide which other AP classes to take. She would take first year German if her school offered it. She is in an arts magnet school so they did Italian songs freshman year, a mix sophomore year, German and French this year and will do a mix again senior year.</p>
<p>She should be able to get a fair idea from the teachers at Tanglewood where she stands with regard to the other sopranos. I believe they let the singers do a mock audition that can be counted as a real audition for BU if things go really well, so that may also give her some indication. Getting into Tanglewood was a great start, but does not necessarily put her at the level she will need to be to get $25K in merit aid from the kind of schools that have been mentioned so far, particularly as a soprano.</p>
<p>The program at Yale looks like it is worth exploring, but I would be surprised to find that they accept more than a literal handful of students per year into it.</p>
<p>If the goal is to let her explore other interests in college, take a good look at the music curriculum at each school of interest. Some programs offer that kind of flexibility and some pile on the music requirements to the point where there just are not many electives left over for exploration.</p>
<p>Thanks BassDad that is very helpful information.</p>
<p>I am a bit confused because I have been reading so many posts and websites ,could you tell me if Oberlin offers music merit along with academic merit?
Can a student that is good in both areas possibly be awarded both? And end up with more than 10,000?</p>
<p>While you are waiting for BassDad on Oberlin, I can add experience from Eastman/URochester and Peabody/JHU. You apply separately for admission and for financial aid. The financial aid offers do not piggyback. In fact, the double degree student will pay the higher of the two offers.</p>