Taking the GMAT as an undergrad

Graduate School Business School - MBA
1

<p>I'm an undergrad planning on working for 2-4 years after school and then applying to MBA programs. Since the GMAT lasts 5 years (right?) and I may be busier after college than I am now, I was thinking about taking the GMAT before I graduate. </p>

<p>Has anyone taken the GMAT before graduating? What do you think about doing so? And for the majority that took it years after college, did you feel like you would have been in more of a test taking mindset as an undergrad and may have had an easier time preparing then?</p>

<p>Thanks</p>

2

<p>I don't think it will matter. The GMAT format was very strange to me, and not because I was out of the test taking phase. I had to study, and as an engineer studying never became foreign. I guess it did help that I had worked for several years before taking it because I learned a lot about technical writing that I didn't know when I graduated college.</p>

<p>Also, IMO, I find it odd that you think you will have less time after graduation. I worked more when I was in school than I did when I got out. That was just me though. </p>

<p>Anyway, I don't think it matters.</p>

3

<p>Your GMAT score is valid for 5 years, though some business schools like to see more recent scores, typically less than 3 years old. </p>

<p>Most of the MBA candidates and graduates I have ever known have taken the GMAT some period of time after graduating from college. Yes, it is possible to take the exam while working full time, and, in fact, most MBA students do exactly that.</p>

4

<p>Some prefer to see more recent, that rings true. Thanks</p>

5

<p>I took the GMAT several years out of college and did not find it overly time-consuming, even with a full-time job. It did, however, help me get back into the routine of studying, which was a nice ramp-up to writing admissions essays and, eventually, taking courses.</p>

6

<p>They don't "prefer" to see a more recent test. That's a fallacy. Your intellectual abilities and analytical skills don't degrade from age 22 to age 25.</p>

<p>I wish I had taken it as a senior in college. I didn't need the stress of trying to juggle it, and taking a day off to go take the exam, in the middle of everything else I was doing. It would've been real nice to have that in my back pocket the whole time.</p>

7

<p>Denzera, actually, there are some business schools that expressly request that GMAT scores be no more than 3 years old. A few top business schools mentioned this at a recent MBA forum for applicants applying this fall.</p>

8

<p>For a class entering in Fall 2009...</p>

<p>HBS:</a>
Graduate Management Admission Test (GMAT) exam from a test taken January 1, 2004 or later. The GMAT is a prerequisite for admission;</p>

<p>Stanford:</a>
GMAT/GRE scores are valid for five years. The scores must be valid on the deadline date of the round in which you apply.</p>

<p>Wharton:</a>
GMAT scores are valid for 5 years after the test date. You should include a photocopy of your official GMAT report.</p>

<p>Columbia:</a>
GMAT scores are valid for five years.</p>

<p>Kellogg:
At the admissions officer session that I personally attended in Evanston, she indicated scores were valid for 5 years.</p>

<p>UChicago:</a>
The GMAT score is valid if the test was taken less than five years before the submission date of your application. The test date makes no difference in the assessment of an application as long as it was within five years.</p>

<p>MIT-Sloan:</a>
Q: How long are GMAT scores valid? A: GMAT scores are valid for five years. </p>

<p>NYU-Stern:</a>
The GMAT must be taken within five years of the deadline by which you are applying, and GMAT scores that are not within that time frame will not be accepted.</p>

<hr>

<p>I trust I've made my point.</p>

9

<p>Well, I trust that you have. Good for you! That said, I will continue to advise based upon what some (though I never said all) of the MBA candidate admissions professionals said quite clearly not more than six or eight weeks ago.</p>

10

<p>"They don't "prefer" to see a more recent test. That's a fallacy." </p>

<p>This is funny. Do you even know what the proper definition for a "fallacy" is? The fact is that sallyawp is right. B-schools will consider scores up to 5-years old. Some schools, however, do prefer more recent scores. That said, a 760 taken 4 years ago will probably be better than a 650 taken last year...</p>

<p>"Your intellectual abilities and analytical skills don't degrade from age 22 to age 25."</p>

<p>Uh, and your proof for this is...your intuition? Once people leave college they fall out of study mode. Their intellectual and analytical skills may or may not "degrade," but they'll certainly be much more rusty at 25 than at 22.</p>

11

<p>
[quote]
That said, I will continue to advise based upon what some (though I never said all) of the MBA candidate admissions professionals said quite clearly not more than six or eight weeks ago.

[/quote]

Sally, I'm not interested in "winning" some farcical online argument - I'm genuinely interested in the truth of this matter. Speaking personally I've taken my GMATs very recently and am not in need of a change of strategy, but like you I advise others on B-school applications - and so I would like to know the facts here.</p>

<p>Which programs do you speak of? And, what was the manner in which they told you this? Did they say it to the full information session, or was it communicated to you in private?</p>

<p>
[quote]
This is funny. Do you even know what the proper definition for a "fallacy" is? The fact is that sallyawp is right. B-schools will consider scores up to 5-years old. Some schools, however, do prefer more recent scores. That said, a 760 taken 4 years ago will probably be better than a 650 taken last year...

[/quote]

your assertion is that, in direct contradiction of what these schools have posted on their websites, top MBA programs have a preference for more recent GMAT scores and will weight the scores accordingly. do I have that right? and you state that that is "a fact", as if it would be a hideous miscarriage of logic to even try to argue otherwise, as one would look like an idiot, correct?</p>

<p>If so, name one such program and back up your assertion. I think, given the above website evidence, that the burden of proof is on you (and/or sallyawp, if she so desires).</p>

<p>
[quote]
Uh, and your proof for this is...your intuition? Once people leave college they fall out of study mode. Their intellectual and analytical skills may or may not "degrade," but they'll certainly be much more rusty at 25 than at 22.

[/quote]

Ah, I see I didn't state my point with that phrase clearly enough.</p>

<p>My point was that while logic might dictate that, while in an academic atmosphere, you would be better mentally prepared to take the GMAT at age 22, that you are no dumber or less intellectually capable at 25 than you were at 22. Indeed, modern neuroscience asserts that human brains continue to develop capacity up to and even slightly beyond age 25. (although beyond such an age, it is mostly in building expert knowledge rather than raw analytical ability) As such, a fair admissions officer would judge that a 720 received last week and a 720 received 4 years ago reflect roughly the same level of intellectual ability in a candidate - although the former score likely would've taken more work on the part of the candidate to "Get up to speed", so it's a question of less work now or more work later, essentially. That's my argument.</p>

12

<p>"Which programs do you speak of? And, what was the manner in which they told you this? Did they say it to the full information session, or was it communicated to you in private?"</p>

<p>It seems to me that you are getting ready to apply to MBA programs. If you have not done this by now, you should consider doing two things:</p>

<p>1) Visit the schools (or, alternatively, attend their information session in your city).
2) Attend online chats and webinar presentations. </p>

<p>It is in these two contexts where schools usually make (and have made) these statements. You can find more information about b-school chats at businessweek.com and accepted.com. </p>

<p>Moving on [edited for courtesy]...</p>

<p>'your assertion is that, in direct contradiction of what these schools have posted on their websites, top MBA programs have a preference for more recent GMAT scores and will weight the scores accordingly. do I have that right? and you state that that is "a fact", as if it would be a hideous miscarriage of logic to even try to argue otherwise, as one would look like an idiot, correct?"</p>

<p>*[edited for courtesy] *You'll see, your version of logic does not have anything to do with the preferences of the admissions process. I do not have time to explain this in depth, though. Suffice it to say, policy is one thing, the interpretation of it another, and the preference of the interpreters yet another. *[edited for courtesy] * Relax.</p>

<p>For example, HBS tells you that 2+2 is NOT for business majors or those people with extensive business experience who are already on a solid track for a business careers. This last part can be best interpreted as those who have business internships. Yet, you see, I know personally of a student who not only was a business major but also had secured an offer from a top investment bank this summer. He got it. *[edited for courtesy] *</p>

13

<p>The fact is that these statements were not made in private. In fact, they were made recently to a large audience of business school applicants at a forum in a large city. You don't have to take my word for it -- that's your choice completely. The fact is that the statements were made by admissions profressionals from several top business schools. </p>

<p>I don't feel any need to carry any burden of proof, nor do I feel the need to justify what I've posted here. Readers of this thread can evaluate for themselves whether to take what I've said at face value (and why would I lie, particularly since I actually already received my MBA several years ago?) or they can go ahead and ask the admissions professionals at the business schools they are interested in attending for themselves. Either way, helping you make sense of the admissions process by reconciling what a website states with what I heard directly is not my goal here. If you choose not to consider that possibility that what I have stated is true, then that is your choice.</p>

14

<p>Very well, Sally.</p>

<p>Likewise, I have attended admissions information sessions in NYC, Chicago, Philly, and Boston - where, in presentations to large audiences of prospective applicants, admissions officers stated clearly that GMAT scores are valid for 5 years, and they don't care when precisely you take it. If you buy that, then it's a good idea to take the GMAT while in college or as recently afterwards as possible, because it will take less effort on your part to achieve your maximum potential score.</p>

<hr>

<p>*[edited for courtesy] *</p>

15

<p>If you have the time to study for it in your sr year or immediately after graduation, I think that is an excellent time to take it.</p>

16

<p>"where, in presentations to large audiences of prospective applicants, admissions officers stated clearly that GMAT scores are valid for 5 years"</p>

<p>...and you expect them to repeat anything other than official policy (such as what you find on the website) when they are addressing large audiences? </p>

<p>"and they don't care when precisely you take it. "</p>

<p>They don't care, or they say that to an auditorium? There's a difference between regurgitating official policy to an auditorium, to a large crowd, and on an online blog versus sharing insight about the process and the board's preferences when you are addressing a selected group of people, esp. in a more intimate setting. Sometimes you will find nuggets of insight in those large settings, but it's unlikely that they'll want to give insight to ALL applicants. You claim to like logic, think about it.</p>

<p>This is the reality, D, (with very few exceptions in the admissions pool) they don't care if you apply at all.</p>

<p>"it's a good idea to take the GMAT while in college or as recently afterwards as possible, because ... to achieve your maximum potential score."</p>

<p>Is this what you have been trying to say? This is true; provided you are focused enough to do it. Nevertheless, sallyawp was factually correct.</p>

17

<p>WildFlower, I suggest you read post #13 in this thread if you wish to continue contributing to it.</p>

18

<p>I think I'll see how my last semester looks with units and internships and then take it if I'm not too busy. I can always retake it and I will probably apply in 2-3 years, not 4-5. </p>

<p>Thanks for the input.</p>

19

<p>GMAT takes longer to prep than GRE/SAT if you want a high score. I learned it the hard way. I spent less than 3 weeks (not full-time; outside work and during the weekends) to prepare as I totally underestimated the difficulty and the curve. My verbal score was in the 65 percentile, not good but not unacceptable considering English isn't my first language. But what I felt really disappointing about was that my math score was at the 82 percentile. I am an engineer and also got 800 on GRE math. My raw score was actually not bad: 47 out of 51. Then I remember that top MBA programs typically have 30%+ of their students with engineering degrees and I realized the competition is stiffer than I initially thought. It's good that you don't take it lightly and start thinking about it this early. Don't underestimate the curve.</p>

20

<p>Sam Lee, are you considering an MBA program in the near future?</p>

<p>Yes, the GMAT takes longer to prep than the GRE if you want an excellent score. I haven't even studied for the GMAT yet but I know I'll need to do some serious prepping next year if I plan to apply next fall to Michigan's dual degree program.</p>