Talk to me about Early Decision

Parents Forum
41

"The school’s NPC gives two numbers, the Net Price, and the Estimated Cost Remaining After Financial Aid. Both of those are substantially higher than the EFC.

OP- ALARM BELLS should have gone off in your head when you saw this!!

Listen to sybbie- she has been a college counselor and has given parents FA advice for decades. She and mom2collegekids know how college FA works. Look at how long she and mom2collegekids and thumper have been posting on this site. All are trying to knock some sense into you!

You have stars in your eyes regarding this college, which is dear to your heart, and thus are being naive in thinking that they can and will “make it work” financially for you.

Financial aid offices are restrained by the budget they deal with. They cant just wave a wand and come up with REAL money [ ie. grants instead of loans] that will reduce what you will actually have to pay, which is 10X’s what your parents had to pay years ago.

If the college does NOT even state on its website that it meets FULL NEED, then expect that you will have to come up with a lot more $$ or take out thousands of $$ of college LOANS each year for your DD to go there.
[ Loans are defined as one way to meet “NEED”. They get the money they need from the loan proceeds- You’ll have to pay the loans back, and at a high interest rate ]

Every year we read posts from distraught students who applied ED to a college they love and then find out they cant go there because too expensive.

Families that need FA cant afford to fall in love with ED Dream Schools.

Isnt it time to take a step back, and help your DD find some alternate colleges where she is also likely to be accepted AND that you can afford, in case the FA package at your beloved college is unaffordable?

We can help with that.

42

Again, if OP is not looking for the best deal, just an affordable one then what’s wrong with applying ED then decline if it is not affordable. Not everyone is looking for the cheapest deal out there. It appears this particular school is the student’s top choice/ As long as parents are able to afford it after FA then they are happy to send the kid there. If by applying ED would give me kid a bump, I think I would take it.
I also totally disagree with people who are saying this is unethical, especially when the school specifically said students could decline the offer if it is not affordable. This wasn’t the case when D1 was applying many years ago. Back then I totally agreed if one needed FA then one shouldn’t ED, but the agreement has changed.

43

No, it is a promise to attend if it is affordable. People should read the agreement.

With this clause, it allows non-full pay students to apply ED without being locked into it.

44

No, you should re-read what you quoted me saying, oldfort. Look for the word “basically”. I did not use “specifically” or “only”. Plus, a sentence or 2 after I wrote that, I added there could be circumstances that made it unaffordable.
I don’t mind if you disagree with what I say, but please disagree with what I say- rather than misreading what I say and then disagreeing with something I didn’t say.

45

Nothing, except IMO taking the affordability too lightly is not taking the commitment seriously. If the NPC says they will have to pay $20K and the FA comes in with an EFC of $40K, then, yes, I think they have a valid reason to ask for more or back out. However, if the FA comes in at say $25K or less, I would say they have an obligation to enroll as promised. I think everyone here is simply trying to be sure the OP understands the financial obligation and doesn’t take it lightly.

I understand the need for a “loophole”, but I just hope the only people taking advantage of it are using it for serious and legitimate reasons (loss of job since applying ED for example). I’d hate to think people go in thinking “Hey! If I don’t like the package I’ll just deny it.”

46

"I’d hate to think people go in thinking “Hey! If I don’t like the package I’ll just deny it.”
but they do…

And they have also limited their admissions options at other colleges.

47

This exactly what has happened–she’s fallen in love with the dream school. It, and any private school, was always going to be a big financial reach and she knows it. We’re not shopping for financial aid so much as wanting to figure out how to make this particular school offer as much as possible. If we can’t afford what they think we can afford, my daughter will simply have to go somewhere else.

Early decision will, if nothing else, let us know the outcome soon enough to get her reconciled to an alternative. The best public option here in NJ for her is TCNJ, and she will be submitting an application. There are also a couple of PA schools that are possibles, but basically any public school will be larger than what she wants and therefore a distant second choice.

When/if we have to cross that bridge we will. For now we’re still hoping that Dream School will help us find a way.

48

“wanting to figure out how to make this particular school offer as much as possible.”

You are NOT negotiating from a position of strength by applying ED!
YOU are the one who wants something from the college,[ an acceptance letter and more $$ than the college calculators are saying you will get] but have little to offer the college ,besides your DD [ unless you have been BIG donors for many years and will withdraw future donations if she is not accepted].

The college will have plenty of other applicants who can pay full price and dont want anything more than just an acceptance letter.

Yes, they want to have a certain % of slots filled early, but many of those slots will already be taken by recruited athletes the coaches want, children of faculty, Big donors, URM’s, Walk On Water kids, etc. , not to mention the full pay applicants.

What are her stats? did she score above NJ’s PSAT cut off #?
If so, there are LOTS of colleges that will be very affordable and can offer her the same experience of DC.
AND she CAN ALSO apply to colleges that offer merit scholarships AND require an early application to be considered for them- USC is one. Applying by their Dec 1 deadline is allowable even if she applies ED elsewhere. .
So dont wait until mid Dec to find out if Dear College will find a way.
Waiting until then will mean other opportunities will already be gone.

49

My daughter’s stats don’t look all that great: All AP / Honors classes but she has a 4.1 weighted GPA/3.6 UW. (That darn AP US History did her in.) Her SATs were unremarkable–a total of 1760 consolidated over three tries. Fourth try coming up. Her PSAT was dismal.

She’s got great ECs, though, VP of her class and captain of two sports teams. Her transcript shows real challenge, variety, and also great improvement in the class she had the most difficulty in: from a D to a B+ over the course of junior year, but the ending average was a C+.

Her determination and growth in her sport is really the main story–she only got serious in 9th grade and has worked extremely hard to get where she is, which is why continuing is so important to her.

She really wants an academically challenging school that will let her explore new areas of study that aren’t available in HS; she’s undecided as to major.

She wants a small school, nonsectarian, rural or suburban only. And she wants to stay close to home–no more than 5-6 hours. And she wants to play her sport. Here in the Northeast that means she only had about 500 schools to look at. :wink: Narrowing them down has taken months but now she has a list of about 8 desirables, but of course most of them are private.

But even so, the NPCs of schools like Montclair U and TCNJ come up with a $20K family contribution. That’s not far off of what the privates’ NPCs indicate.

50

As menloparkmom said, if you are looking for the best possible deal from he “dream school” , you should not do ED. If you have already committed what is their motivation to give her more aid? Best thing to do is to apply to other schools (if possible include some that this school “fancies” themselves o be in competition with for students, & play them against each other, as in “I’d love to come to your school but school X is giving me this deal, could you match it”.

51

[QUOTE=""]

However, the counselor told me that their job (the Financial Aid Office's job) is to meet the difference between the EFC and the cost of attendance. It's our job to meet the EFC.>>

You DEFINITELY do not want to use the FAFSA EFC. USE the school’s NPC-calculated EFC.

[/QUOTE]

Right.

I think the OP is confusing FAFSA EFC with a school"s calculated “Family Contribution”.


[QUOTE=""]
This exactly what has happened--she's fallen in love with the dream school. It, and any private school, was always going to be a big financial reach and she knows it. We're not shopping for financial aid so much as wanting to figure out how to make this particular school offer as much as possible. If we can't afford what they think we can afford, my daughter will simply have to go somewhere else.

[/QUOTE]

Tip:
Just be careful with the words that you use with your DD. It sounds like there has been some confusing info provided by the FA officer. If your DD has been told that info, then please explain to her that there may have been a miscommunication.

It would be terrible for your DD to think that the school is going to be possibly generous enough, and then find out it won’t be. Kids hear what they want to hear, and they can get all their hopes up.

Encourage your DD to find OTHER schools NOW…otherwise, in Dec, she’ll be too upset to think and process.

52

[QUOTE=""]
if you are looking for the best possible deal from he "dream school" , you should not do ED. If you have already committed what is their motivation to give her more aid?<<

[/QUOTE]

Yet this school has been direct in saying that ED students DO get more aid, and it says as much on their website. Demonstrated interest is a factor in awarding institutional aid. I guess the only person who can answer the question of how MUCH of a difference that makes in reality is someone from the school.


[QUOTE=""]
Encourage your DD to find OTHER schools NOW....otherwise, in Dec, she'll be too upset to think and process.<<

[/QUOTE]

Yep, absolutely. I hear you loud and clear.

53

This may be an easy position to take if the school in question meets 100% demonstrated need and have policies in place like no loans, free tuition if your family makes less than 100k, etc.

I hope that you don’t think that we are ganging up on you or coming for you. Your daughter has the starry eyed dream school that she has to go to. You feel you love her, she’s a good kid who has worked hard and deserves her dream school. Unfortunately as parents, we gotta have the hard talks and make the hard decisions especially when private schools are costing almost 60k a year.

The fact is that the dream school does not meet 100% demonstrated need. This means that there is automatically going to be a gap in the financial aid package. It is going to be up to your family to fill the gap the best way that you can.

You said the school is a D III sports school so there will be no athletic scholarship coming. The sad truth is with the stats you presented the school will probably not be tripping over themselves to give her their highest amount of merit $$ unless her grades and scores are placing her about the 75th percent at the dream school. Some schools that offer a full tuition scholarship may offer very few - less than 10, making the competition fierce.

for kicks and giggles:

lets say that your school is 65k

you have a 20k EFC

you need 45k to make this work

lets say the school gives you

25k scholarship/scholarship aid (which will include a $5k legacy scholarship- I cant see this scholarship being a substantial amount of money)
5.5k federal loan
2k work study

total 32k

on face you might think that it is a lot of money (granted 25k is a nice piece of change that a lot of full pay families would be happy to have as a discount).

However, you will have to come up with the 13k of unmet need in addition to your EFC.

You are not the first parent to tell their kid that you have to love the school that is showing you love and follow the $$… Menloparkmom’s son, turned down an Ivy and other top 20 schools to take the money at USC (which is no slouch as far as schools are concerned) and is now attending a top PhD program.

Look up posts by curmudgeon, whose daughter turned down Yale and Amherst because the money did not work. She is at Yale Med. The net-net is your daughter will do well if she desires to do so (your gift will make room for you), whether it is the dream college or the local college.

Your job is to have a realistic talk about what you can afford to pay/borrow for school. Then you need to help her to cast a really wide net; don’t be afraid to look at the Womens colleges like Mount Holyoke, Smith and Bryn Mawr that are SAT optional and if not recruited, her sport could be a tip. They are SAT optional and they meet 100% demonstrated need. She might be eligible for a leadership scholarship at mount holyoke

https://www.mtholyoke.edu/admission/merit#

Depending on how her Math/CR breaks out, if she can raise it just a smidgen, or get a good ACT score she could be a viable candidate for Barnard (again, they meet 100% demonstrated need).

Run a lot of net price calculators, use a bottoms up approach to make sure that you have a couple of financial feasible options, that your daughter would be happy to attend.

54

"Yet this school has been direct in saying that ED students DO get more aid, and it says as much on their website

1- Have you looked at the colleges Common Data set information?
-that will give you a wealth of information, including the ED admittance rate, the SAT scores and GPA’s of applicants and accepted students, how many applicants received Merit aid and Financial aid and what % of that aid was grants vrs loans etc etc.

2- Do you know what % of students who are not admitted ED are deferred to RA? or are they rejected?
3- IF the college is NOT need blind, you DO realize that means the FA office is involved in the admission process, correct?
At colleges that are need blind, the admissons office decides who to admit, and only then forwards accepted students files to the FA office for them to come up with the amount of aid to offer.

55

OP, before my DS was fortunate enough to win a great scholarship at USC, he has applied SCEA to Stanford, and as he was an alum kid and had top stats, and as lots of other top students from his HS were accepted each year at Stanford, we all had our hopes up. Comes Dec 10, and he was deferred, and that was one really miserable Xmas break for all of us- especially him as he had to scramble to write new essays and send in applications before the Jan1 deadlines.
The good news came much later on, but that month was a bitch for all of us- dear Hubby was furious and DS hid in his room, licking his wounds , trying to write essays to schools he was not sure he wanted to go to.

Dont let that happen to your DD. Make sure she is prepared to be disappointed if her ED college wont pony up as you all hope it will.
Have the $$ talk NOW with her and make sure she knows what you CAN AFFORD and what you are WILLING TO spend to send her to college.

56

@younghoss

I think you are implying OP is being underhanded by trying to take advantage of this perceived loophole. What I am saying is it is NOT a loophole. By allowing applicants to opt out if the finance should not work out for whatever reason then they can do so, period. Who are we to judge, "if they offered 20K and you expected 25k then you must take it, or “if they offered 20K and you needed 40K then it is ok for you to decline it.”

Not sure what else OP is supposed to do. She spoke with the school’s FA rep, showed her financial information. The rep told her that they could get more FA by applying ED.
It is not as if the school is going to show OP the FA prior to ED.

57

I would suggest this student have all other regular decision applications submitted at the same time as the ED application. That way, no deadlines for potential merit aid will be missed.

If the student is accepted with a workable financial aid package, then the student simply withdraws all other applications pending…and with draws any acceptances that might have already come in as well.

58

^^^Totally agree. This student should also not view this school as “the dream school.” This applies to every applicant. A dream school is when a deposit is made.

59

Years ago, ED was a binding contract. Many people have complained that it disadvantaged non-full pay students. I am glad they added this clause which allowed students to decline if finance didn’t work out.
I for one do not believe OP is trying to game the system.

60

Actually the school could have given Op an early read. it would not have been a promise or a commitment that she would receive what they told her but they could have given her an idea of what a package for a family like hers would look like.

I made the following comment to which Op’s responsed

op then said

From what I gather, Op did not get a financial read but a very generic answer from a school that does not met 100% need. the Financial officer simple gave her their party line of

What is the school suppose to say? There are not going to say if money is an issue don’t apply.