Talk to me about Grad School!

College Majors Music Major
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Hi there. I’ve been off and on here this past year for many reasons. But I stop by and check in on you all when I can.

I can’t believe it but my d will be a senior this fall! She has loved NEC (mostly because of her teacher) and is looking forward to her senior year. But when I bring up the topic of grad school, she says “Shhhh don’t talk about it…” haha

But being the mom I am, I’m thinking about it - because applications will be due in 6 months!!!

For you experienced folks, how does the audition process and financial process differ for grad school? I think she’s thinking of staying at NEC, applying to Juilliard (she got an acceptance there for undergrad) and possibly Yale, now that she will be experiencing Norfolk this summer. But I also think she is toying with the idea of taking a year off. I am hoping that she doesn’t choose that route as I would hate for her to lose momentum. But I also recognize that sometimes you just need that. So I’m trying to keep my mouth shut.

Any violin moms/dads out there? Gap year? Bad or good?

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Hi,

I checked with a couple of my young professionals. They are out of conservatory for 8 - 10 years. Things change, but I don’t think that much. Others are welcome to correct me.

My first reaction was: What would your D do with a gap year? Between my offspring and me, we could come up with examples of some who studied in Europe privately with “master teachers” or took a year off to try the audition circuit. Those landing jobs said “Forget the MM!” I don’t know the state of auditions at present, there haven’t been a lot due to Covid, but it seems they may be picking up. Then again, a full-time orchestra gig may not be your D’s interest.

As 22-year-olds, hanging around the parents’ house to recover from an intense program (as conservatories are) may not be fulfilling for very long. Some of my kids’ contemporaries got married, started teaching jobs (community music schools, private studio, etc). It’s hard to realize given this field which requires long-term growth, but they really are adults! (Maybe it won’t be hard for you to recognize - but I kept being “surprised”!)

The downsides of a gap year might be: recommendations - teachers will undoubtedly remember them, but you aren’t right in their faces if you are off on a gap year; access to free superior video equipment for auditions (may not be a problem now, but was when my kids did grad auditions); easy access to piano collaborators (don’t know your home area - it may be easy to hire someone very competent, but not true in all areas).

Yale, since it was free, was a favorite choice for many of my kids’ friends, Juilliard was also a pick, but I’m hearing a number of students are irritated at J-yards right now due to Covid handling and increasing tuitions. The student is considered independent from parents’ income for most schools, but that was not true of Juilliard in the past. Check their website - they used to make clear that parents’ income would be required and considered in giving graduate financial awards.

Is there any possibility that your D’s teacher will retire in the next few years? That happened to one of mine. No warning - just a general announcement. Hard to take after years of a close relationship. Another of the major teachers from back when my kids were in Conservatory died - almost literally in the teaching studio - right before final exams.

Other thoughts - I don’t see a problem with staying at the place where you’ve been as long as progress is being made and the student is happy. One of mine decided on that after auditioning elsewhere. The change just wasn’t going to present any more opportunities and there would be an adjustment period to new circumstances, etc. One of the teachers one of mine had made it clear to a student if he thought they should move on. Obviously, your D will talk with her teacher also.

Those are my random thoughts of the moment. I hope I didn’t come off as patronizing or offensive. Your D has done great in getting where she is and so have you! I haven’t had that 2nd cup of coffee, so the tone may not be right!

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For us money was a big factor for grad school. So, that meant applying to doctoral programs that included a master’s that were funded from the start, or going to the UK (one year master’s), or Germany (no tuition). Canada was another option though that cost more than we anticipated. Yale’s free tuition is of course appealing.

What are her career goals? Orchestra? Ensemble/string quartet? Freelancing? Stable job? Teaching (Private, private school, university, community?)

If she is interested in continuing at NEC, or going to Juilliard or Yale, the repertoire at these schools is more traditional than at some schools. Some schools have more ensemble or solo work in new music. Increasingly, students are learning music of historic composers of color or female composer. Does this interest her?

For grad school applications, teachers, grad students and peers were the ones who made suggestions, some good and some not so good. My music kid traveled to visit, alone.

I would think a gap year might be really healthy. I do not have an instrumentalist in the family so I don’t know how often she would see a teacher, how much she would have to practice to keep up, or what performance opportunities she would find on her own. It is true that being in school provides resources and opportunities. Or…would she take a year off from intensive work?

NEC’s string program is excellent of course.

PM’ing you

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*“I would think a gap year might be really healthy.” I am curious why this might be the case (unless the student is truly burned out and all but incapable of moving forward). Not trying to be snide, but it is not an approach that is typical for high-level violinists. Perhaps for string players who aren’t ready to gain entry into the top conservatories, taking a year off for 8 hour plus a day of practice and study with a high-level teacher would be helpful. This is not the case with the OP’s daughter. She is at a top school with a top teacher.

The OP’s daughter could compare requirments for a MM vs an Artist’s Diploma. If she’s burned out from juggling academic and practice demands, the Aritst Diploma has fewer academic requirements. It’s not uncommon for top violinists to have a BM, MM and AD or Professional Studies (depending on what the school calls this option).

I do have other observations having been through this scenario with high-level string players. The ones for whom money (or loans) wasn’t a consideration went to places like Juilliard, NEC, CIM. Some got almost full rides at IU. I don’t know how Rice is currently with several top professors gone since mine were looking. They used to have decent scholarships - but that may well have changed. How is Colburn these days? As mine finished up, I was surprised to see a number of students taking teaching fellowships at state schools. They had good teachers although the overall quality(orchestra, chamber music) was not what their conservatory undergrad experience had been. Presumably, this made good money sense.

Outcomes 5 -12 years out of school are quite mixed. Within my kids’ cohort, there are a number of orchestral musicians (full time, full benefits, I-can-support-a-family gigs), others who are doing gig work/teaching and happily married to someone with a more sustainable income, a couple of international “name” soloists, others who have left the field, some that got certifications for public school jobs, some went on to DMAs and have had obtained college/university jobs both with and without tenure possibilities. These were all students at various “top” conservatories, elite fellowship experiences, same cadre of “top” teachers.

I don’t think there is a clear path to success - however one measures that. Incredible violinists are, sadly, simply not in short supply.

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I know a couple of what you might call top violinists who benefited from a year out of school. Not a year out of music, a year out of school.

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I appreciate all the conversation! I think her thoughts on a gap year are more because she is unsure of a next step. But I highly doubt she will go ahead with it. Her health and momentum are getting better, not worse at this point so I can see her reaching for it. I think she shushes me so that I don’t add any stress or anxiety to the situation (all in love of course).

She is a year younger than her classmates as she went to school after finishing HS in 3 years. So there are also those considerations. But even though her youth led to some struggles early on she has really grown through it.

She has expressed little interest in professional orchestral playing but desires most to do chamber music. And honestly, I’ve seen her in all settings and the child comes alive in a quartet, and it’s like the sky parts and I can see the future. So that is what my spirit sees. I try to keep most of these things to myself most of the time.

She has also expressed an interest in baroque authentic performance practice but has not taken serious steps toward that end yet.

Her summer at Norfolk will give her a very serious vigorous glimpse into more chamber work (she’s playing with faculty on one concert) and I think she will discover a lot about herself.

MY dream (and she thinks about it too) is that she find a quartet and do a residency somewhere but that’s like trying to find 3 spouses and that natural occurrence hasn’t happened for her yet. But that may come later down the road.

We will support her as best we can and let her run in whatever direction she feels best. I just can’t believe we are thinking about going to a graduation next May.

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Got it!

I’m aware of at least 3 young (meaning under age 40) professional quartets that have players that my kids knew well. They all formed as undergrads. (This isn’t unusual - other “older” quartets such as Pacifica came from those years also.). If that’s the route she is interested in, these conservatory years are the time to be actively searching for similarly minded players. But, you are so right that these groups are difficult to form and sustain! (By the way, I also know several quartets that disbanded despite having had professional residencies. In those instances, the sponsoring universities suddenly pulled the plug on money and the positions were gone despite the coaching and teaching the quartet members were doing.).

San Francisco Conservatory has a grad program in chamber music. The quality of player may not be quite what she is used to, but that will vary in different years. CIM has traditionally been strong in chamber music.

Juilliard’s graduate Baroque performance is tuition-free. The only violinist I know that went through it teaches at a pre-college program and has a random Baroque gig. A keyboard player commented to me that he wished he hadn’t wasted time on his Baroque studies; there’s no money in it. He was a Curtis grad - additional Baroque studies and fellowships. CIM and Case Western have very fine programs in early music. This might be especially great if she has an academic interest in the area as well.

I don’t think being uncertain of the next step is at all unusual. These top players often get good attention, support, and mentoring through conservatory years, then reality hits. In any case, your D is lucky to have such supportive parents. Many are not in a position that they can support an adult child post-grad.

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I meant to include re top Baroque performance programs, for auditions, it’s most often expected that the student performs on a Baroque instrument meaning they own the instrument and have had specific study and work in the area. You can’t just learn the Bach Chaconne on your modern instrument and expect to be admitted to a Baroque practice specialized program!

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Also, as far as being young, my kids were always in school with Curtis graduates, many of whom had started Curtis as young teenagers (or younger). So, some were 17 - 18 and starting graduate programs in conservatories. Others were beginning MM’s at age 20 - 21.

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I am well aware of this. I should have mentioned that my husband and I are musicians who actually met at NEC and my husband did some baroque study. Hence her interest in it. We have talked about a baroque violin and will get her one if she chooses that route. We are well aware of the requirements and needs and the switch in thinking. I think that some in the Boston area might disagree with the futility of that path, but the opportunities are very small. But none of us goes into music for the money, do we?

I appreciate all your comments and conversation. This is not an easy road for her to choose but with such a love in her heart for it we wouldn’t want to discourage it in any way. Thank you for all your comments! It is good to talk with someone who really “gets it”.

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OK!! Forgive me if I was too “elementary” in pointing out what was obvious to you. Most are non-musicians on this board and couldn’t be expected to know the intricacies of rebecs vs vielles, and swan-bill bows vs pike-heads! I certainly didn’t know much until one of mine pursued the field for a bit. (That one did make a few bucks… Then the Early Music group folded. Ah well.)

Our backgrounds are similar. Somehow, being in the field didn’t always help me as the parent - I was/am too close to be fully objective.

Frankly, I wished that my kids had a talent and interest in another path. Only one of them is not pursuing music despite conservatory level abilities. When it was apparent that music was the chosen path for the others, we supported this to the best of our abilities. To be honest, I’m not certain that all will stick with this until they can draw a Musicians’ Union pension, or that the field will exist in 10 years as it does now. But, that is a different conversation.

Going back to the original question - I remember several friends of my kids who sort of “opted out” as they approached Grad School auditions. Several had simply had enough of the field. One that really surprised me was a student who had soloed with one of the “Big 5” as a high schooler and was a top student throughout conservatory with any number of fellowships under the belt and conservatory honors. It took that long to decide that music wasn’t meant to be the life-long pursuit. Others (including one of ours) was just tired of auditions - conservatory for undergrad, auditioning for multiple fellowship programs each summer (multiple to be sure you got into at least one!), conservatory orchestra auditions along with some professional orchestra auditions “just to feel it out”, then Grad School!!! All at the same time as senior recitals, academic classwork, on and on. It felt never-ending, there was always tension and it was stressful everyday! It seemed that there was rarely time just to develop. That kid feeling it the most did continue straight into a MM without a gap year, but also decided there had been enough fellowship programs to last a life-time. Between what had already been experienced summer program-wise and the conservatory routine, I had to agree with that decision. Not that this is necessarily how your D feels right now, I just wanted to share an observation.

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