Thats great you are planning ahead…great questions! My son took the conservative route and did not accept any of his AP credit for science/math since he felt like Tamu classes would be more involved than any AP high school classes, and in general this was true. He is a soph aero and it worked well for him both to build a strong foundation and for a successful ETAM. After all - it just gets harder and these aero and mech students need to know their physics and calculus.
I am not sure about these classes at a community college or if he would be allowed to retake classes at Tamu that he already had college credit for - this is a great question for an engineering advisor. Its definitely a plus to come in with credit for Amer History, Gov (US and Texas), Human Geography, English and probably more. Google “Tamu aerospace degree plan” to see classes are required (although it may change) and especially to understand the core curriculum requirements and cultural diversity/discourse.
If possible, I would encourage him to take something similar to AP Calc BC and AP Physics (mech) and AP Physics (electrical w/calculus). Oh, and learn to code!
BTW, the math placement exam (MPE) tests everything before calculus (trig, geom, alg 2, etc). It is essentially testing calculus readiness.
Sorry if I missed anything! Great PSAT - that is a huge plus!
@Eggscapgoats - Thanks for the feedback! I tried to talk with one of the local advisors at the Houston office, but I only received generic answers. I think I will try to find someone at College Station, or one of the virtual sessions where my son and I can speak to someone face-to-face… at least over the computer! : )
Okay so good for you for planning ahead. I have just a tad bit of knowledge when it comes to engineering. So you may need to get with an advisor at Tamu to see what they recommend to position him the best way.
What I do know is that the maths you are talking about are extremely elementary when it comes to math rigor for engineering. Most kids will have Calculus A/b or another calc. Tamu doesn’t even have college algebra on their degree plans for any major except maybe education. So please before you register for senior year, get with Tamu advisor. It can even be an email asking their thoughts. They are happy to help.
And well done… the rest of his application credentials looks outstanding. I just worry about the math and science rigor. Keep us posted please.
Editing to say… oops I didn’t see the reply above mine. So yeah… do what they said. And yes, speak with Tamu engineering advisor not general admissions advisor.
Tamu is great at answering emails so you might want to send an email to engineering advising and that way, you will have something in writing to refer to. Mech and aero are required to take one semester of Chemistry, so thats a good one to take also senior year if it hasn’t already been taken.
@AggieMomhelp - Thank you! And yes, we know the college algebra course won’t transfer. It is the prereq for the college PreCalc course. If it would be beneficial for him to have Calc under his belt, I may have him test out of it and have him take PreCalc and Calc next year. Unfortunately, as homeschoolers, it is not easy to find AP classes. There are some available online, but I am not a big fan of math and/or science via online classes. I think I am going to get him the AP study guides to see how comfortable he is with the material. Fortunately, he is a natural in both subjects.
@Eggscapgoats - Thanks for the Chemistry info. I thought they are required to take that Chemistry class at TAMU. It wouldn’t affect my plans because he would still take it next year with the hope that the TAMU course will then just be a refresher.
And thanks to both of you for the specification of an engineering advisor. I thought I could only ask the general admission advisors. I will reach out to them and keep everyone posted!
So I feel like I kind of struck out when I called the engineering advising dept. I spoke with someone who sounded like a student. When she seemed confused after a couple questions, I asked again if I could speak to an advisor. She said advisors don’t talk on the phone.
I explained my question regarding the best path for my son’s math courses. First she said Calc 1 & 2 if AP is available. When I said it wasn’t, she said then just going up to Precal was fine. That is a big different though, so I asked about the rigor of math required to get accepted into general engineering (not just TAMU), and she said they look at the entire application, similar to general admittance. They look at the application info, essays, etc.
This is very different from the impression I have received from reading different forums, so I am more confused now than when I called for clarification!
She also seemed confused when I said dual credit and then referenced those as college courses later in the conversation. Maybe I am miscommunicating? In our (homeschool) world, dual credit classes are taken at the local college campus and are shown on the campus transcript and the high school transcript. I thought that was also the same way it worked for public schoolers. Is that correct?
Yes, Dual credit is the same as far as transcripts goes. Some schools offer DC classes on the HS campus and some go to CC to take them.
With everything else being equal, the student who is more prepared in math and science (especially math) will be placed ahead of one who isn’t. They want to set up the student for success. Math 151 and 152 are no joke. Lots of students struggle if they aren’t prepared. Even if they do okay on the MPE.
And yes, admissions looks at the whole application for admission to TAMU in general. Then once they say, oh yay, I like this kid… they look at major. If engineering, then they put into another place for engineering lens review. If another major, they see if the major is open.
The general idea is to exhaust all math options available to you. If necessary, you may need to become involved in DC classes simply to continue your upward movement in math. You are showing the university that math is important and you will continue to increase your skills.
As an example, my last kid exhausted the highest level of math his Junior year in our public Texas school. DC was not an option since several universities he was applying to did not accept DC, they only accepted AP classes. Well, no public school math remained (not even AP). DC classes were not accepted by some universities. So, we petitioned the district to allow for independent math studies along with a handful of other parents. Basically this class was Calculus 3.
I mention this to show that there are many different ways to demonstrate continued improvement in math to these universities. Students cannot help if their school does not offer certain levels of math, but the student can find ways to show their desire for continued learning.
Also of note, and this is just personal opinion, DC and AP credit in Math should NOT be applied to a student’s Engineering Degree Plan. Don’t take the credits. It is my little opinion that every engineering student start at the bottom of their required university math and work their way up all over again.
Thank you both again. That clears up the muddle in my brain. I also found this on the FAQs for the math placement test:
Is there another way I can demonstrate readiness for MATH 151 (Engineering Mathematics I) without retaking the Math Placement Exam 4?
Yes, you can enroll in your local community college this summer and earn college credit (with a letter grade of A or B) for a course equivalent to Texas A&M’s MATH 150 (Functions, Trigonometry and Linear Systems). Equivalent classes for most institutions can be found in the (Texas A&M University - Transfer Course Equivalency System).
I know that question pertains to someone who didn’t pass the placement exam, but at least it tells me that the dual credit Precalc class I am considering will get him prepared.
So I am weighing the differences of two scenarios:
1 - Test out of the College Algrebra course (his PSAT scores already do that for him at our local college) and sign him up for dual credit Precalc and Calc 1.
2 - Have him take College Algebra and Precalc. The College Algebra course will be super easy for him, but it may cover a few things that he did not learn in his Alg 2 and Precalc high school classes. The reason I am considering this option is mainly because he would take the college Precalc class in the Spring which would be closest to the time he would take the placement exam.
I have heard others mention a course (for around $250?) to prepare for the exam. I can’t find anything on the TAMU site about it. Is that sponsored by a separate organization? If that refresher course is good, I think that would push my decision to the Precalc/Calc route because I would prefer he has some foundation in a college Calculus before taking the MATH 151 class at TAMU.
Thanks again for all of your help! I really appreciate it. One of the major challenges I have found with homeschooling is trying to get information like this since we don’t have a high school counselor to ask.
I would go with option 1, since most of the engineering freshman will be taking Calc in HS. This will also look better on his application - taking calc in HS. Once he is admitted, he will see a sample MPE exam and will have the option to take numerous sample tests before taking the real thing at the new student conference. Yes, definitely take calc in HS to be an engineer!
Sorry to repeat myself, but seriously consider sending an email to engineering advising with your questions. You will (hopefully) get a detailed answer back. Its worked for me in the past
Thanks for the nudge in the right direction! I’ll try to email them. I originally thought a phone call would be best since sometimes things get misread in email. Then after this morning, I wasn’t going to email them because I assumed it would be the same students answering the emails that also answer the phone. But I’ll give it a shot!
Just keeping everyone posted… I sent an email to engineering advising on February 8th regarding the senior year class options. No response. : (
I know the winter storm has delayed things, but I would have thought some response would have been given that same week.
Kinda disappointed. My daughter has been accepted for the fall, and I have been impressed with TAMU’s reachability during the decision process and during COVID. We had no problems scheduling a session with a LA advisor, speaking with housing, etc. We even have a visit with an English professor in a couple weeks to try to help her make a decision between TAMU & UT. So I really didn’t expect to not get a response at all to my email to Engineering. Quite frankly, that’s what I would expect from UT right now. They have proven difficult in finding person to speak with. : (
All that being said, with the wonderful advice and feedback on these posts, I’m going to plan for my son to take college Chemistry, Precalc and Calc next year. He won’t transfer the Chem and Calc credit for two reasons - I want it to provide a solid foundation before he takes those course at TAMU, and from what I read, he must take those courses at TAMU to be eligible for ETAM at the end of his freshman year. : )
So sorry they didn’t respond to your email! I hope they do in the future. That’s great he will be taking chem and calc. You mentioned he had taken physics and the more, the better, since he will be taking one semester as a freshman and it counts as the second etam engineering/science class.
If he has room to take a coding class or learn on his own, that will also be a big plus since it is used in the freshman engineering classes. Supposedly, coding in the freshman engineering classes begins with the basics, as if a student has never coded before, but having that knowledge going in is preferred since the pace is fast.
As Tamu has stated, Rigor (of classes taken) is a very important aspect of ones application, so taking the hard classes will not only prepare him, but will also make his application look better
FYI, to tag onto Eggscapgoats… if your son takes a college class, then the course transfers as credit to tamu. You can’t NOT accept or transfer a college course. The only courses you don’t have to accept is AP credit.
Now, could you take it again, probably, but just wanted you to be clear on this point.
@AggieMomhelp - I think that’s my understanding and maybe I worded my post poorly. His hours will transfer, but he can choose not to have it apply to that particular class, correct? So, end result is that he will have taken extra community college classes that he will being duplicating (by choice) at TAMU. Is that correct?
That is over my pay grade, lol. I’m not sure how it works for sure, but I think you are correct. It will only count on transcript and only his TAMU course will count towards GPA and degree requirements. You’ll need to confirm with advisor.
Like @AggieMomhelp infers, the subject of community college classes is tricky. In general, if one takes a community college class, for example english 1301, it becomes part of their permanent transcript and corresponds to Tamu class eng 103 and the student does not have the option of retaking that class.
You can go to the texas common course website (above) to see if the classes your son is considering are the same as the tamu engineering classes. For example, he may be taking a calc class at community college which is for business majors that would not even transfer as engineering calc. Same goes for chemistry…there is chemistry for engineers and then there is chemistry for non science majors.
However, I have heard of people who have took calc, or physics, or chem at community college that theoretically should of transferred but were allowed to retake those classes at Tamu. Of course, you would want this scenario in writing from an engineering advisor.
Hope I didn’t confuse the subject, but please use the TCCN site to al least verify what is planned to take and even if it would transfer.