Teacher Problems

Parents Forum
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<p>I've been using CC to research schools for my DD, but now need advice from anonymous sources regarding my 8th grade son. This may turn into a bit of a rant, but I need feedback on the situation.</p>

<p>He's in a very rigorous Classical school - the type where 7th graders read Herodites and 8th graders read The Confessions of St. Augustine, and Latin and Logic are high on the list. I (mom) work at the school, so have a lot of interaction with the teachers. He has not earned great grades throughout middle school, and was diagnosed with Auditory Processing Disorder last year. He earns very respectable marks on standardized tests. He is moving to a public school next year. </p>

<p>This year the grades have been really bad. I feel like his teachers have given up on him to a degree, but most will stay after school and tutor him and make efforts to accommodate his hearing issues. The one subject he has always excelled in has been science - but this year it has been horrendous. The teacher is young and teaches at a very high level - she has been overheard saying that she only teaches to the top, and is not concerned with students who can't keep up. In meetings regarding the hearing issues, she has a defensive posture and basically says it's up to him to figure out what to do. Another science teacher (from another grade) has offered to tutor him. The tutor says he knows the subject matter well, and his attitude is good. He studies hard and does his homework (though the teacher picks one problem at random and checks it for correctness, so his homework grade isn't great either). He is lost in a subject he loves. I think he just doesn't understand this teacher's style and literally doesn't understand her. I see him becoming disheartened and frustrated, and beginning to believe he's just not good at science. </p>

<p>Should I express to him that this teacher is just a really bad teacher, and that next year things will be better? I hate to blame it all on the teacher (though I think she's a huge part of the problem), and worry that he'll just not work the rest of the year. On the other hand, I want him to believe in himself as he changes schools - not the sort of belief that comes from the "self esteem" trophies given in Little League, but a real sense that he does have the ability, and needs to continue to work hard. Or, should I just let it play out and see what happens, even if he's increasingly discouraged?</p>

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<p>Have you expressed your concerns with the headmaster?</p>

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<p>Since you’ve already met with the teacher, to no avail, I’d suggest moving a step up the hierarchy. Hopefully this is not the first time they have heard of issues with this teacher. Since it is a private school, they’re not required (unless state law requires, I guess) to follow special education laws. They may, however, be required to follow a 504 plan, since that is under ADA, but I am not sure about that. </p>

<p>While I generally would not say much about a teacher to my kid, this is a case where I would have a full discussion. (“I’m concerned about how things are going for you in science, and I don’t think that the problem is you – it seems to me that this is a situation where Ms. X is at a loss on how to work with some students, and you seem to be one of them…”)</p>

<p>But…this also raises for me the issue about whether you’ve spoken to the guidance counselor at next year’s public school for getting your son the help he needs to be successful there. MUCH better to go in with a plan than to try and deal with similar consequences once high school has started.</p>

<p>Good luck. And I hope your son’s school is one that dismisses in May, not June.</p>

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<p>It’s a bit awkward since the headmaster is my boss. However, I’ve heard other faculty parents grumbling a bit about her too. I will probably wait after the school year to gingerly raise concerns with him.</p>

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<p>child > job</p>

<p>I wouldn’t wait. High School is too important and if you don’t think there will be information sent to his new school, you are wrong. I swear kids that have faired poorly in middle school go to high school with a black cloud over their heads.</p>

<p>Also your child needs you to advocate for him. He has an opportunity for a fresh start, but you can’t just flush this poor year behind him. He needs to know that you are 100% in his corner, not by words, but by actions. (awkward or not)</p>

<p>Edited to add…a good headmaster can seperate the parental role from the employee role.</p>

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<p>@arabrab - yes, I’ve already spoken with the public schools. In fact, they supplied an FM system for his use this year, although he was in a private school. I can’t compel a private school to do anything for him, though they do all use the FM system. I think a notetaker will be a huge help for him, as well as recording lectures, and plan on asking for those accommodations. He can only distinguish 45% of a spoken lecture in a classroom (he has problems with separating speech from background noise). In addition, many of the public school teacher post their powerpoints on blackboard, so he’ll have access to those. Therefore, I am somewhat optimistic about next year. He is also an excellent and avid reader, though he sure didn’t enjoy Confessions of St. Augustine!</p>

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<p>In terms of what you say to your child, I would go with something along the lines of …</p>

<p>“In life, you’re going to have to deal with lots of kinds of people. Some you’ll click with; some you won’t. I know this year that science has been a struggle, which is a shame because I know it’s always been one of your favorite subjects and a real strength for you. But don’t let your issues with Ms. X cause you to write it off entirely. Ms. Tutor can see you know the material well and are enthusiastic. That’s great. And next year, you’ll be in a new school with a new teacher who, hopefully, will be attuned to your needs.”</p>

<p>I think that acknowledges the issue, keeps him hopeful for the future and doesn’t make the teacher the total problem. We all have to learn to work with different types of people, including teachers. I, as a parent, don’t like to run down a teacher, even if 90% of the problem is theirs.</p>

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<p>I am sure there are other parents with problems with the teacher, but are afraid to sleek up. You position is awkward but you are not alone.</p>

<p>My daughters have different learning styles, one was more traditional, and one needs different methods for different classes. What I told my girls was that often a teacher teaches one way, sadly, and the student needs to figure how to make the best of it. I gave my daughter a tape recorder that looked like a pen, and she taped the most boring lectures this pen teacher gave. I had her read material and pla y back to herself. It was a matter of showing my child that while spme teachers teach on style, there are so many ways of learning. This term is almost over, and if his grades don’t affect hs, I wouldn’t stress so long as he manages to pass.</p>

<p>I would then find him an amazing science camp to attend over the summer. It’s not too late. </p>

<p>It’s okay to dis the teacher a little bit, but just do it in the right way. Tell son he only has x amou t of days left and you two are gonna make the most of it. That you will double check homework. That you will find him an outside tutor. That once school is over itl
Be a summer of science…museums roadtrips, Tours, and he can help plan it. Whatever motivation he lost he will quickly get back. </p>

<p>Are there any parents in the same boat who aren’t staff who can question the teachers methods and styles?</p>

9

<p>I would explain to your son the idea of “level playing field” and that not all teachers understand it yet. A student like your son has a right to do work that he is capable of, and the auditory deficit prevents him from doing that. Accommodations are not favors, and by right should be provided to the level that ensures that level playing field.</p>

<p>I understand that this is a private school. Some teachers who have high standards have the mistaken idea that accommodations mean lowering standards. On the contrary, they help the child reach those very same standards.</p>

<p>I would try to talk to the headmaster about this, not in an angry way, but only to suggest that perhaps the headmaster could help the teacher understand. </p>

<p>Public school will be better on this, in theory, but you are going to have to advocate, as you know. A great resource (not only for complaints, but for constructive action) is the Office for Civil Rights at the Federal Education Department.</p>

<p>You can get a list of possible accommodations signed by an expert, such as an MD or neuro-psych. or hearing expert, and the Federal Office can provide ideas. You can also google accommodations for your son’s issue. We found that presenting school personnel with typed lists of accommodations signed by an expert brought good results, while also keeping us out of the line of fire, since the list was officially requested by the expert (though I usually wrote the letter, for the expert to sign!).</p>

<p>If you end up in meetings for a 504 plan, write it yourself! They will sign it, and then be bound to it, but if you write it you have some control.</p>

<p>A “Smart Pen” is a good idea, as someone described.</p>

<p>Please know that I have a kid with significant challenges who made it through elementary, middle and high school with accommodations and is at a top college, still making it with accommodations (when absolutely needed), and many on this forum can tell you the same thing.</p>

<p>In the meantime, though I myself went to a school similar to the one that your son now attends, I think it is a very good idea to get away from a place that places such undue intellectual stress on middle schoolers, whose brains are under construction!</p>

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<p>There is also a program that will recognize speech and translate it to text (dragon? I think its called). If that is any help.</p>

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<p>Thanks all for great suggestions. Sometimes I wonder if I’m hyper-protective of him. but I think the situation is at a critical juncture. I should explain that I met with the headmaster last year, and he was very supportive of helping Son, but it is also explicitly stated in school policies that accommodations are made purely on the classroom teacher’s approval. We wanted to try it for a year, knowing it’s a very difficult curriculum, but balancing it with small classes and me being there to advocate for him. I think it is obvious that public school is where we need to go from here. We have excellent public schools, and he never would have attended the private school unless I worked there. My D is at the public school, and we’ve been pleased with her education. All students are provided with laptops, and many kids who need accommodations are given iPads to use in class (but he wants to make sure that wouldn’t mark him immediately as “special”). I think he’ll definitely use an iPod to record lectures, and perhaps dragon to translate to text. He went through a very long private diagnosis with an audiologist trained in APD, and the public schools have given us no trouble about accepting it. I casually know the lady who will coordinate his IEP (her husband is a leader in Son’s scout troop), and I have confidence she will guide us in the right direction.</p>

<p>I like youdontsay’s approach to dealing with Son. I will definitely give the school feedback (and gentle criticism) at the right time. My main concern is dealing with Son’s discouragement. I also like the suggestion of science activities for the summer. He’s been begging to go to the Chicago Museum of Science and Technology for the Mythbuster’s exhibit, so perhaps we’ll do that (combining it with a college trip for D, of course!)</p>

<p>I welcome all the suggestions - keep them coming. I’m glad to know I’m not overreacting either. I’ll keep you posted.</p>

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<p>First off, hang in there. The end is near and the school your son will be moving to sounds like a great fit for his needs. You’ve already had some great suggestions, but I wanted to chime in with one more idea. This is an opportunity to start teaching your son how to advocate for himself. Now, he is only in 8th grade and I don’t expect him to be taking care of himself at that age. I just mean that he’s dealing with a life long issue, and he’s going to run into people that don’t understand for many years to come. Ask him if he’s got any ideas for what might help him most in class now and talk to him about the aids you already know about (like FM and live scribe) and why they’re helpful to him. He can start developing a sense of what he really needs to succeed so in years to come he’ll be able to communicate that to teachers/professors/employers. “Auditory Processing Disorder” doesn’t mean anything to 99% of the population so he’s going to have to be able to explain in words that others can understand. Yes, you should be taking the lead in advocating for him now, but you can teach him by your approach how to advocate for himself in the long run. Giving him some “control” over his disorder this way is self-esteem building in ways that “everyone gets a trophy” can’t come close to! Good luck to both of you.</p>

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<p>Glad your son is moving over to the public school. Generally speaking, public school teachers are more versed in issues like auditory processing disorder, while parochial school teachers are not very accommodating at all. In fact, auditory processing disorder is often misunderstood. I hope his FM helps a lot, and I hope your son is a good self-advocate. For now, I suggest you don’t rant too much about this teacher. Let your son know you’ve been concerned about him for awhile and next year should be better.</p>

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<p>

I guess I’m confused by the contradiction here - if S knows the subject matter well, how is it that he is lost? What, precisely, is the subject matter anyways?</p>

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<p>A couple of comments - I am both the parent of an honors kid with ADHD and a speech pathologist, so I get what you are saying from more than one direction. </p>

<p>Aminor suggestion, consider a LiveScribe pen. In a nutshell, LiveScribe pens not only record the material, but when you use the special paper to take notes at the same time, you can put your pen on the spot in the lecture where you wrote the note, and it will play it back. I have not personally used one yet, but I don’t work at the high school level and have been in management for a number of years. Definitely worth a try - if not for science but for other courses. I believe that you can get them at Staples - they are not that expensive.<br>
Second, just to play devil’s advocate, has your son been evaluated by a speech pathologist? APD is very very rare, and sometimes there is a receptive language (e.g. memory for what he hears, ability to make “word pictures” to allow him to comprehend longer paragraphs and ideas, etc.) can also be a factor. Receptive language deficits are much more common, and can be improved through effective compensations. If he has not been tested, this should be requested in writing TODAY. If he were my child, I would consider paying privately for this evaluation vs. the school district, but only if I could carefully research speech pathologists and find the best one. If you need help with this, PM me. Third, APD is going to be confused with receptive language deficits by nearly all teachers. Some people question its validity, or at least feel it is overdiagnosed. In a way, it is not really important the teacher be able to tell the difference between APD and a language comprehension or memory deficit - what matters is that they know what to do to help. Therefore, I would absolutely, positively, do some proactive work now. What you want is a one page “portrait” that you can share with the IEP team as well as every single teacher. The easiest way to approach this is to begin to build it NOW by talking to his current teachers. The sections you want are 1 - Picture of your son, all your contact info. A statement like “I am always willing to listen to suggestions, and would be happy to purchase any equipment that you would think would help.”<br>
2 - "Here is a bullet point list of his strengths. Here is a bullet point list of his challenges.<br>
3 - Here is a bullet point list of what teachers have done in teh past that helped him compensate. Here is a bullet point list of what does not help.<br>
4 - Here are the contact emails for his IEP team members, who love to hear from classroom teachers.<br>
Avoid 504s. Get an official IEP plan with goals. Work hard to determine the best goals. If you start building his portrait now, his teachers (especially the tutor) will be able to tell you their suggestions. Ifyou wait until the Fall, their memory will fade. </p>

<p>Best of luck to you!!! You are totally on the right track!</p>

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<p>There are also amazing free science programs on line that are just fun to watch and learn.</p>

<p>Look to summer camps that have any kind of math or science and get him a science kit microscope, books on at home experiments, make it fun and messy</p>

<p>We did volunteer projects that had a science twist, like lying irrigation lines at a zoo, looking at connections, downhill, etc, it was awesome</p>

<p>There are also cookbooks that are all about science</p>

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<p>*Should I express to him that this teacher is just a really bad teacher, and that next year things will be better? *</p>

<p>I am also with youdon’tsay and would add: you can’t promise him things will be better next year. You can reassure him of the contact you’ve already had with them and your own belief that will be a better starting point. You can promise that, if there are further hurdles, you’ll be there for him. And, that you know he’s smart, but that not all kids thrive in all circumstances. We all need adjustments, at times. Kudos to you for working at this.</p>

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<p>

As someone who teaches, statements like this tend to bother me. Most likely, this teacher is not a terrible teacher from which no student ever learns any thing. at all. whatsoever. nothing. zero. zip. zed. nada. zilch. so bad it’s should be a capital offense. really, really, really, horrible bad teacher. should do everything in your power to get her fired teacher.</p>

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<p>Yes, tell him she is a bad teacher. You certainly will also tell him that acknowledgement doesn’t mean his grade will go up. But it can show him reality. And if he has been doing things differently because of it, he can now deal with the issue head on.</p>

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<p>@ sylvan8798 - I too am a teacher. I stand up for teachers. I teach in the same school as this teacher. I do not wish teacher to be fired, nor blamed for Son’s problems. I think she is an excellent teacher for the top three students in the class. Son has been taught to always respect teachers, and has never said anything negative to her or about her. However, I have never in 20 years of teaching come across a teacher so negative in her response to a student. In this case, the student happens to be my kid. Incidentally, a high percentage (1/3) are failing the class. If I teach a class to a group of college bound kids and a third fail, I find another way to teach the material. They are currently studying Waves and Energy, and once again she’s supplementing from her college text.</p>

<p>Overall, I think the school is excellent, or I would not teach here and I certainly wouldn’t send my child. </p>

<p>It is indeed contradictory that the tutor says he knows the material yet he doesn’t perform on the tests. The best I can understand is that she includes material that is not in the text. Of course, it rarely makes it into his notes. One problem his teachers have noticed across the board that he can orally regurgitate material much better than he can write it down. I think there may be other factors besides the APD contributing to that. Other teachers have agreed to quiz him orally and measure that against his written performance. It’s odd he does well on standardized tests - apparently the multiple choice format works for him (I have never seen a multiple choice question on his school tests). </p>

<p>@shoot4moon - yes he’s had extensive testing by an audiologist. We have a very detailed report of his test results. He worked with a speech pathologist in grades 4-5. We are planning to have more testing done this summer to make sure there is not a problem contributing to getting stuff from his head onto paper.</p>