<p>Big companies which have the resources to recruit everyone are not the only employers. Many smaller companies do not have the resources to recruit everywhere (although they may consider applications from those who find them and apply to them). Little Silicon Valley startups may go to nearby SCU, SJSU, UCSC, etc. rather than travel to RPI, PINYU, SIT, etc… The reverse may apply to little New York metro companies, who find RPI, PINYU, SIT, etc. much more convenient to recruit at than SCU, SJSU, UCSC, etc…</p>
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<p>Cooper Union is listed based on its full cost, even though it gives full tuition scholarships to everyone or almost everyone (soon to become half tuition). Regarding the military academies, wouldn’t a lot of their graduates’ pay levels be based on military officer pay levels?</p>
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<p>It seemed to be quite important when you were pushing the Payscale rankings.</p>
<p>It’s not up to me to disprove your opinion. It’s up to you to prove it. You seem to believe you are spouting fact, when you are only spouting your opinion. I’ve presented data that seems to fly in the face of your claims, but you keep rejecting it.</p>
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<p>Then you no longer have an argument, because your argument is based on data delivered by the universities… their geographic distribution of graduates. It is very convenient to your argument that you accept one set of self reported data, but not the others.</p>
<p>You reject any data that conflicts with your personal view of the world and your opinions just seem to keep getting more severe.</p>
<p>Now you’re implying that national companies don’t even recruit from the megalopolis, which is a truly absurd claim. Of course they do. There is a percentage of graduates from every college I mentioned who find jobs across the country, just not as high a percentage as the schools you mentioned. </p>
<p>You flat out claim NYU-Poly has near zero reputation. Why? Because YOU say so? Where do you get this stuff?! Again, for someone who didn’t even know Columbia… and then tried to defend not knowing by saying their program was regional… C’mon. </p>
<p>You mention Lockheed Martin, a company which I am VERY familiar with. Sorry, but I think your claim is a total load of poop! I visit quite a few sites in NY, NJ and PA. I’ve known many of the design and development managers for years… since they were design engineers themselves. I see no evidence they pull students from any particular class of school. In fact, I can’t think of any from the schools you mentioned… and I know A LOT!!!</p>
<p>I never normally went around asking people where they went to school, but over the past few years, with my own son looking, it was a frequent topic of conversation as we would break bread or casually chat. The natural tendency is for people to say where they went to school, so I now have a good idea where a lot of these guys graduated from… if they have advanced degrees, etc…</p>
<p>And forgive me for implying anything about someone’s engineering pedigree, but some of the guys I know from Lockheed went to some pretty crappy schools. Great guys and apparently good managers, but from some not so great schools… and they have admitted that themselves. So it’s VERY hard to believe they have some sort of master list they exclusively recruit from.</p>
<p>In fact, it might even be illegal for Lockheed to discriminate on the basis of where an engineer went to school. They take government contracts. It certainly sounds like a great law suit for an enterprising student. His parent’s tax dollars are paying for programs, but even though he went to an ABET recognized engineering program, he won’t even be considered for a job? That doesn’t sound right to me.</p>
<p>I’m scheduled to visit Lockheed in Owego and Syracuse the second week in July. I’ll bring this subject up when I’m there. I’ll be with all senior people. They will know exactly what their policies are.</p>
<p>Yes, I assume so, but since they paid nothing, any income should make the ROI shoot through the roof! </p>
<p>As for ROI…
I think it would be a good tool for the average family making decisions on where their child should go, but I can’t remember ever saying it was of particular interest to me personally.</p>
<p>Couldn’t you say the ROI on any ROTC degree then would be fantastic? While it’s true you aren’t paying any money, you are paying with your time and freedom.</p>
<p>I believe the time committment for an ROTC scholarship is 8 years… not exactly a trivial amount of time - You would be 30-31 y/o by the time you were able to live your life the way you wanted to live it.</p>
<p>Of course, if the way you want to live your life is as a career military officer, a military service academy or an ROTC scholarship would be a good way to get started in that direction.</p>
<p>Maikai “In fact, it might even be illegal for Lockheed to discriminate on the basis of where an engineer went to school. They take government contracts. It certainly sounds like a great law suit for an enterprising student. His parents tax dollars are paying for programs, but even though he went to an ABET recognized engineering program, he wont even be considered for a job? That doesnt sound right to me.”</p>
<p>I’m surprised that anyone would think this is news! The company position will of course be that they will consider everyone. The reality though is that at some schools you may have only 10 candidates out of 300 that meet your requirements. At another school perhaps 200+ out of a class of 300 would fulfill all requirements. When hiring managers take a few duds from a particular school it doesn’t take long for operational managers to discourage further hiring from that school. Hence, companies develop target lists of schools where they’ve had good results. Other schools are always considered but may not be visited for on-campus interviews. The above is true regardless of major.</p>
<p>Most companies recruit college grads at nearby colleges? I am attending NYU Poly in the Fall studying chemical and bio-molecular engineering and it seems like someday i’ll be working at nearby suburb areas that have pharmaceuticals in NJ or long Island… Am I really only limited only on the east coast? Since from what people have posted above said NYU Poly truely have no reputation on the western side of the country?</p>
<p>Once you get a couple of decent internships down on your resume and you performed well in those internships, it will not be an issue anymore. In the end, your experience and job performance will be far more important than the name of your college. The key is to start planning your career and applying for coops/internships as soon as possible. Join the coop program if Poly offers one. This is even better than just doing summer internships.</p>
<p>You will likely have to actively look for and apply to non-local companies, particularly smaller ones, rather than see them show up at the career center.</p>
<p>Wow. The only one making anything up is you. You’re stuffing words in my mouth.</p>
<p>Re-read my post, slowly if you have to. I CLEARLY am not claiming it’s illegal. I’m saying it “might” be illegal. I even went on to say it doesn’t sound right to me.</p>
<p>Discrimination is discrimination. </p>
<p>The idea of a published “black list” of schools in a company largely funded by government contracts should raise an eyebrow of any citizen.</p>
<p>Also, this is kind of off topic but how can minoring in business studies at NYU Stern be beneficial? I was thinking about minoring in business because personal finance is something that everyone should know… but i don’t know if minoring in business can be good with an engineering major.</p>
<p>However, having a “target list” for recruiting does not imply that every other school is on a “black list”. The size of “target lists” for recruiting probably correlates to the size of the employer; the “local preference” would likely appear stronger for small employers who have fewer recruiting resources to travel. But that does not mean that an applicant from a non-targeted school who finds the employer and applies will be automatically rejected.</p>
<p>I’m no lawyer, but “Target list” and “Black list” look like two sides of the same coin to me. I don’t believe the subtle distinction would hold up.</p>
<p>They could certainly have a limited list of places to which to travel for budget reasons. I’d personally turn a jaundiced eye if they distributed this same “travel list” as a list of schools whose graduates should get an unfair advantage over any other similarly qualified school. The term “Target school” implies that, IMHO. </p>
<p>Again, any citizen should feel this way. One of the important tenets of our country is our intolerance of discrimination. And we do indeed hold corporations who have close-dealings/large-contracts with our government to a different standard than we hold others.</p>
<p>If there were an accepted way to measure or demonstrate the true superiority of a particular school’s education, or the education from a set of schools, that would be a different story. </p>
<p>At the current time, I’m only aware of one industry and government accepted measure, ABET accreditation. To go for a State PE license, for example, one must jump through a number of additional hoops if their engineering education is not from an ABET accredited program. It’s almost like you have no formal engineering education at all! Can’t speak for all States… NY and HI are my sources for this… the only two places I care to live. ;-)</p>
<p>And all this talk is a bit of nonsense. Again, I firmly disbelieve Lockheed is so motivated. I am VERY familiar with a number of their locations and quite a few of their staff. If they have a “target list” than they are incredibly poor marksmen, because the array of schools they hire from seems heterogeneous. The only pattern seems to be location… they all seem to hire locally more than remotely. But I think that’s true (to different degrees) of any corporation.</p>
<p>A business minor wouldn’t help you get your first job. Eventually getting an MBA would be a benefit for a management position. If there are electives you could take to make that eventuality easier/lighter, you should do that.</p>
<p>I wouldn’t take on additional course load than necessary just to have a minor in business. Worry about getting great grades in your major. And worry about gaining experience applicable to your first job(s).</p>
<p>Additional skills related to the job will increase your attractiveness. These additional skills don’t necessary need to come from formal sources.</p>
<p>It is a three sided coin. Surprising that you do not see that there could be more than two options.</p>
<p>Target list = schools the employer actively recruits at (you even agree that local schools tend to be recruited at more)
Neutral list = schools the employer does not actively recruit at, but does not automatically reject
Black list = schools the employer automatically rejects</p>
<p>For new graduate recruiting, larger companies likely have larger target lists than small companies, for obvious practical reasons (recruiting budget). But even when the target list is small, the black list may also be small or the empty set. For most employers, the neutral list is likely the largest.</p>