<p>If you would, please oblige me with information about Engineering Technology programs, particularly MET. In particular, I'd like to know more about the perceived value of such a degree in the real world. Do they train you as an engineer, just one of a more hands-on variety....or do they just teach you how to be a CAD monkey or other miscellaneous overworked employee that makes under $20 an hour?</p>
<p>Different people will treat it differently. I've certainly heard about MET grads not getting treated the same as ME grads, however on the other hand i've heard of companies, such as Northrop Grummen, that will hire MET grads before an ME grad because they are more prepared for real world applications. </p>
<p>On the long run, once you get some years under your belt and get a PE, i can't imagine there being much of a difference.</p>
<p>You can be a PE with an engineering technologist degree?</p>
<p>Depends on the state. You also typically need many more years of experience before you can sit for the exam. I believe in NY state, it's 8 instead of 4 with an engineering degree.</p>
<p>So you can suck at math, and still be a PE? wow, I didn't know that...</p>
<p>"I've certainly heard about MET grads not getting treated the same as ME grads, however on the other hand i've heard of companies, such as Northrop Grummen, that will hire MET grads before an ME grad because they are more prepared for real world applications."</p>
<p>Ha. Ha. Ha. </p>
<p>I work for a defense contractor (not them), but the projects we do are very similiar. The case in which you probably heard about this was not for a design job, but perhaps something more hands on oriented. Then obviously, picking the ET guy over an engineer is worthwhile... why? You can pay them less for the SAME job. An engineer would demand more due to the fact that he/she went to school for 4 years.</p>
<p>And trust me, a BS in ME degree guy will be just as ready for the real world if he/she has had an internship experience (or two experiences). That's what they [internships] are for.</p>
<p>Don't the ET guys also go to school for 4 years? If so, would you substitute "went to school for 4 years" with "is better at math"?</p>
<p>An ET program is typically a 2-year diploma program. It LESS math and science intensive. If you want a well-paying job that can lead to promotions and eventually become a higher-up, it's advised to get a bachelors of science (4 years) in engineering, rather than an engineering diploma.</p>
<p>It takes a lot of hard work, but it depends on your ultimate career goals. You will be more employable as an engineer with a four year degree, than an ET.</p>
<p>Don't engineers usually fail at getting decent promotions/pay raises for the most part? Incompetent people need to be promoted so they don't inhibit the productivity of the competent.</p>
<p>Bachelor's of Tech degrees are 4 year degrees. Perhaps you're thinking about associate degrees.</p>
<p>can someone reply with a long paragraph of useful information?</p>
<p>First, I am not very knowledgeable in this area, just the parent of a college soph who is studying engineering but I have been reading up a little on the licensing issues as we try to plan his future. First, there are SEVERAL 4-yr ET programs throughout the country (S debated over Eng and a 4-yr ET degree and we looked at a few different programs locally and out of state). Also, I believe about half the states allow students with 4-yr ET degrees plus whatever their state's req. wk experience is, to take the PE exam (which I believe does include some math; I know at S's school ET students in the 4-yr program take Calc 1-3 same as Eng students, but not much if any math beyond that). </p>
<p>Before taking the PE however, engineering students must first take another test, the FE to be allowed to work as an engineer intern (and that probably varies a lot from state to state as well); I read somewhere that many ET students do not pass this test the first time around compared to eng students, presumably because of the differences in the Eng and ET curriculum? In addition, I understand that there has been recent discussion during the past few yrs over requiring further education past a 4-yr degree in order to take the PE (such as a masters). In 2006, the NCEES which is a national organization made up of all the state licensing boards and which prepares the FE/PE exams, voted to require an additional 30 credits before taking the PE, to be effective in 2015 (see link below); so students just starting out may want to keep this in mind as they plan their future studies. </p>
<p>Home</a> - NCEES</p>
<p>[there is lots of other interesting info at their site - links to each state's licensing board, summaries of which states will allow 4-yr ET degrees for licensure, etc.]</p>
<p>There seems to be a move to professionalize the industry further and to standardize requirements in the states so we may start seeing more changes in state licensing requirements such as the amt of education (although I haven't been able to find any specific info on how this might effect ET grads, if at all, down the road).</p>
<p>Hope this helps a litte and hopefully other engineers/eng students can either correct or elaborate on any of what I have said!</p>
<p>scansmom is right on all points, with the exception of the NCEES requiring 30 additional credits before taking the PE, though only because of a technicality. The NCEES does not have the authority to enforce requirements for the profession; that is left to each of the states. They have only voted to recommend the change to the states, but I don't see why this won't go through. </p>
<p>I've also read that it's not strictly 30 credits after the bachelor's degree. If your BS or BE degree requires more than 120 credits for graduation, you can use those extra credits towards the 30. </p>
<p>I haven't seen any information specific to ET grads, but I suspect the 30 extra credits will apply to them in the same way. </p>
<p>As for the original question, silverbullet had it right. Different people will treat it differently, so you won't get a generalized answer. Once you get your PE, that's your most important credential; not where you got your degree or what type of a degree it is. This is of course assuming you will be going into a field where the PE is valued, which isn't always the case.</p>
<p>"An ET program is typically a 2-year diploma program. It LESS math and science intensive. If you want a well-paying job that can lead to promotions and eventually become a higher-up, it's advised to get a bachelors of science (4 years) in engineering, rather than an engineering diploma."</p>
<p>My previous post was under the impression of a 4 year BS degree in Mechanical Engineering Technology that is ABET accredited. They are allowed to take FE/EIT exam afterwards.</p>
<p>"Ha. Ha. Ha. </p>
<p>I work for a defense contractor (not them), but the projects we do are very similiar. The case in which you probably heard about this was not for a design job, but perhaps something more hands on oriented. Then obviously, picking the ET guy over an engineer is worthwhile... why? You can pay them less for the SAME job. An engineer would demand more due to the fact that he/she went to school for 4 years.
"
Your thinking the wrong ET (2 yr vs 4 yr). And no, they are design positions.</p>
<p>
[quote]
My previous post was under the impression of a 4 year BS degree in Mechanical Engineering Technology that is ABET accredited. They are allowed to take FE/EIT exam afterwards.
[/quote]
This is currently true in many -- perhaps most -- states. However, it is not true in all states. For example, the Kentucky</a> Engineering Board says the following on their FE exam page:
[quote]
To be eligible for the exam in Kentucky, you must be a senior year student in, or a graduate of, an engineering curriculum of four years or more accredited by the Engineering Accreditation Commission of the Accreditation Board for Engineering and Technology(EAC/ABET). Engineering technology degrees are not accepted.
[/quote]
There are other limitations as well. Even in states where 4-year ET degrees are accepted for PE licensure, an ET grad will typically have to get more professional experience than an engineering grad to qualify for the FE or PE exam. And FE/PE exam pass rates are generally lower for ET grads than for engineering grads. In practice, an ET degree is not a particularly common route to the PE, even in states where this pathway is theoretically allowed.</p>
<p>These limitations become more severe for ET degrees that are only 2-year degrees, or that are not ABET/TAC-accredited (although California accepts 2-year ET degrees, and I know a Civil PE with one). </p>
<p>
[quote]
There seems to be a move to professionalize the industry further and to standardize requirements in the states so we may start seeing more changes in state licensing requirements such as the amt of education (although I haven't been able to find any specific info on how this might effect ET grads, if at all, down the road).
[/quote]
It is uncertain how this will play out, but the trend is towards emphasizing the engineering MS, and away from the traditional engineering BS. This trend would give prospective engineers more flexibility in their undergraduate training, as long as they studied engineering in graduate school. So an ET, math, or science major could become a PE without a traditional engineering BS, as long as they went to grad school for an engineering MS.</p>
<p>
[quote]
So you can suck at math, and still be a PE?
[/quote]
The FE/PE exams are highly quantitative, so you need math skills to pass. However, traditional engineering BS programs do not have a monopoly on math; it is possible to acquire the necessary math skills in other ways.</p>
<p>
[quote]
It is uncertain how this will play out, but the trend is towards emphasizing the engineering MS, and away from the traditional engineering BS. This trend would give prospective engineers more flexibility in their undergraduate training, as long as they studied engineering in graduate school. So an ET, math, or science major could become a PE without a traditional engineering BS, as long as they went to grad school for an engineering MS.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Curious as to what you think, especially since you seem quite knowledgable in engineering licensure....Do you think instead of the 4 year BS, there will soon be the option of either going with 5 year B.Eng or a BS degree in any field plus a 3 year M.Eng degree? (similar to architecture education/licensure)</p>
<p>I just don't see a 30 credit MS in addition to a math/science BS being an improvement over the current system, and I don't believe this is what the NCEES had in mind. From the way I read it, their intention was to maintain the current requirement of an ABET accredited 4 year degree, and require an additional 30 credits of ABET accredited courses, or have a total of 150 credits, whichever is fewer.</p>
<p>NCEES is concerned with engineering licensure over all disciplines. In practice, however, the overwhelming majority of licensed engineers are Civils. This means that ASCE is also very concerned with licensure, and that ASCE's opinions also carry a lot of weight on this issue.</p>
<p>See [url=<a href="http://www.asce.org/files/pdf/professional/keypointsps46507.pdf%5Dthis%5B/url">http://www.asce.org/files/pdf/professional/keypointsps46507.pdf]this[/url</a>] link for a recent summary of ASCE's position. Look in particular at points 9 and 10. </p>
<p>For the near future (point 9), ASCE expects the primary pathway to licensure to be through an ABET BS degree, plus an engineering MS degree or other post-graduate education. No surprise there.</p>
<p>But eventually (point 10), ASCE expects ABET to start accrediting engineering MS degrees (right now ABET only accredits BS degrees, except at a few graduate-only institutions). And when ABET MS degrees become widely available, then ASCE wants the ABET BS to become optional:
[quote]
While it is not required that the baccalaureate degree associated with this path be an ABET/EAC accredited degree in civil engineering, the master’s degree must be ABET/EAC accredited in civil engineering and must validate the attainment of the body of knowledge by the degree recipient. ASCE has pursued important modifications to ABET accreditation criteria and policies to make this a viable alternative path in the future.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>This pathway would be analogous to the liberal arts B.A./B.S. + accredited professional M.Arch. route for architects. If architects can do it, why not civil engineers?</p>
<p>Presumably someone who wanted to pursue civil engineering by this pathway would be required to address certain math and science prerequisites as an undergraduate (just as pre-archs or pre-meds do). But as long as you met those prereqs, you could major in virtually anything (just as pre-archs or pre-meds do).</p>
<p>In practice, many states already allow licensure by this route. For example, some states will allow a person with a Chemistry BS and a Chemical Engineering MS to take the Chemical Engineering PE exam --even though a candidate of this sort does not have an ABET-accredited professional degree in engineering.</p>
<p>My mistake on the mixup earlier!</p>
<p>I know an MET master's graduate who got an offer for $75k at a below-avg cost of living area. He hasn't accepted yet, still looking at what else he can get. Time in school was 4 yrs BS, 2 yrs MS.</p>