<p>Okay, sooo...for a couple years now I've only wanted to go to Columbia, which I have visited and love, however looking at my SAT scores I'm wondering if that's really possible even if I apply ED. I looked into UPenn and was shocked that I hadn't EARLIER! It's still in the city (something which is important to me) and close enough to NYC if I really wanted to I could visit. However, I want to major in English and Poli Sci, are those departments strong? I know business is strong there, but that's not really an interest..I would like to be a lawyer. With my lower SAT scores (retaking in Oct but right now they're 2060) would I be better giving up on my pipe dream of Columbia and doing ED to UPenn, which I might have a better shot on. But I doubt I'll actually be able to visit UPenn in person before applying, so that seems very risky. What if I actually hate it? Soo..</p>
<ol>
<li>What is Philadelphia like?</li>
<li>What is the campus like?</li>
<li>How strong are english and poli sci departments?</li>
<li>Do I have a shot if I raise my SAT scores up past 2100? (SAT Subject: LIT 750, US History 740) 4.0 with AP classes, Decent ECs, volunteering, and two part-time jobs.</li>
<li>Is the financial aid there good?</li>
<li>If the financial aid isn't good enough can I get out of ED?</li>
<li>Should I just stick with ED Columbia (with huge likelihood of reject) and apply RD to UPenn?</li>
</ol>
<p>I’m not qualified to answer your first 3 questions as I’ve never visited Penn myself either and I haven’t done any research on their English/Political Science department. But for your other questions –</p>
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<li>It’s very difficult to evaluate your chances unless you provide a full profile of your academic and extracurricular record. For SAT scores, here’s the 25th and 75th percentile scores for Penn’s class of 2013</li>
</ol>
<ol>
<li><p>Penn guarantees to meet 100% of your demonstrated need. Though I wouldn’t say their packages are as good as those given by schools with significantly larger endowments such as HYP, the aid here should definitely enable you to attend.</p></li>
<li><p>In the very unlikely event that your package really isn’t sufficient enough for you to attend Penn, you can always say thanks but no thanks to the admission committee, just like at any other school.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>Even if your scores aren’t extremely competitive to Penn or Columbia, you can still apply ED if one of them is your favorite school.</p>
<p>However, Penn is NOT particularly (if at all) easier than Columbia. So do not apply to Penn because you think you have a better chance, especially if it’s not your number one.</p>
<p>I visited Penn once and loved it. I also visited Columbia and hated it. That’s my personal opinion, yours may be different, but I move in in less than 2 weeks.</p>
<p>Penn’s English department is excellent–generally ranked among the top 5 or 10 in the country. For example, in the latest US News ranking of English graduate programs, Penn was tied at #4 with Harvard and Columbia. Further, if you have any interest in creative writing yourself, or in hearing from prominent contemporary writers, the Kelly Writers House at Penn (yes, it’s actually a real Victorian house right on campus) is a phenomenal asset, as this New York Times article describes:</p>
<p>Penn’s Political Science department is OK–generally ranked among the top 30 in the country. Still fairly decent, but not in the same class as Penn’s English department. However, Penn does excel (generally top 10 or so) in several related fields, such as Sociology and Economics, and its interdisciplinary programs, such as International Relations and the various regional studies, are stellar.</p>
<p>Penn’s campus embodies what many believe to be the best of both worlds in terms of a self-contained campus (and campus life) and urban setting. The campus is around 300 acres, and includes shaded walkways, greens, and courtyards that are closed off to vehicular traffic and are somewhat secluded. However, the campus is also mere blocks from Center City Philadelphia, and all of the cultural and historical attractions, dining, theater, entertainment, and nightlife that it has to offer.</p>
<p>I lived in Philadelphia my whole life so I can answer your questions about Philly. It’s okay, like New York but less crowded. There’s bad places, and there’s good places in Philadelphia. I like the city.</p>
<p>My friend who lives near Penn says Penn’s campus is really safe. The campus is really nice as well. I spent all this week there and I walked around. It may not be as nice as other ivys, but I like it. I briefly visited Yale and Harvard and I LOVED their location. Maybe it’s because I lived in Philly my whole life and I am used to it.</p>
<p>Public transportation here is fairly decent.</p>
<p>I feel like a lot of students looking at the Ivy League are facing the same decision between Penn and Columbia. I’m in a similar position myself–there are things I like a lot about Penn (Economics at CAS, Kelly’s Writer’s House, American Sign Language at the Language House, better financial aid than Columbia) there are things I like a lot about Columbia (Core Curriculum, I feel safer/more comfortable living in NYC because I live relatively close and am really familiar with the public transportation, whereas I’ve only been to Philly a few times). For me, the killer is extracurriculars-- I have good test scores and grades that are probably good enough for both schools, but I don’t have a ton of volunteering/leadership/any extraordinarily obvious passions (I tried a lot of things in high school, just out of interest, and I’m positive its going to come across as out of trying to get into college, which isn’t the case). I’m pretty sure I can’t get into either school regular decision, so now the choice is whether to apply early at all to either school or just to give up and focus on other schools that I like. </p>
<p>I’m sorry I can’t offer much advice, but I can sympathize. I have a list of pros and cons of each school on my computer, and I’ve agonized over it quite thoroughly, I can tell you. My end decision probably is apply to both regular decision, work really hard on the essays for each, pray for a miracle and invest lots of time learning more about the other schools I’m applying for that are more of an admissions match. </p>
<p>What I do know however–and this is a fact that made a greater impression on me than any admissions data–is that Penn welcomes early decision candidates with a marked interest in the school, and that their financial aid is significantly more generous than Columbia. You can see the stats available on their website, but I believe Penn awards aid in 80% of those who apply, while at Columbia the percentage is far less. Sixty percent of all Penn students receive aid, while only forty-seven percent of Columbia students receive aid from the university. One of the main reasons I’m looking at Ivys as opposed to other top-teir private schools is because Ivys give better aid, but among the Ivys, it appears to me that Penn is a better choice financially than Columbia. </p>
<p>I haven’t been to a ton of Ivy campuses (just Penn, Columbia and Harvard, and we ditched the Harvard Campus tour to see the JFK Library, which was thoroughly worth it) but I thought Lotus Walk definitely had a better vibe than Harvard Square. Less tourists too, which is always a good thing.</p>
<p>Oh. And one more thing I forgot to say. If you’re going to apply somewhere early decision, visit at least once. Like I said, I’m on the fence about applying early to either school, so I’m going to visit Penn and just walk around, eat at the cafeteria, and I’m taking Saturday classes at Columbia next year, so hopefully by the time I make up my mind I’ll have a good idea of what life is like at each school. Early decision is not something that should be taken lightly, and you should NEVER apply early to a school just to get in. If you’re really passionate about a school and know you WILL go, then early decision is fine. But if you’re even the kind of person that’s curious about where you may get in, the kind of person that will still be thinking about the what-ifs several years down the line, do NOT apply early decision.</p>
<p>Penn will give you a more conventional college-y experience than Columbia. NYC is so big and so alluring that some energy is drained from the campus. Penn has a great city at its doorstep but the center of gravity remains firmly on Penn’s great campus (and Locust Walk, which is just a fantastic and intimate heart of the university).</p>
<p>At 300 acres, Penn’s campus is almost 10x the size of Columbia’s, and new fields and greenspaces are being built as we speak (see [Penn</a> Connects : — Home](<a href=“Penn Connects : A Vision for the Future.”>http://www.pennconnects.upenn.edu/) ) and check out Penn Park, the Palestra Green, etc)</p>
<p>I think you’d be hard-pressed to find anyone who says Columbia has more on-campus energy and school spirit than Penn.</p>
<p>To put it another way, I think you’d be equally hard-pressed to find anyone who says Philadelphia is a better city than NYC…yet that is precisely why Philadelphia is a better city for college.</p>
<p>Go to Penn for undergrad, and New York for a job (or Columbia for grad school )</p>
<p>Anyone know which school has better job prospects for students exiting their respective engineering programs? I hear that Penn students benefit from being closely linked to Wharton and it’s business opportunities, but Columbia students have NYC.</p>
<p>Wow thanks, this advice has all been so helpful reading through…
I’m very swayed to change to UPenn, but since I cannot get out there to visit it before Nov 1st, I’m going to stick with my ED to Columbia (I would be SO thrilled to go there as well). But if I am rejected to Columbia…at least all hope is not lost, and I can cross my fingers for UPenn. :)</p>
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