Hmmm. Maybe it was just my inference but I read this to mean the Jews were worshiping WITH the Presbyterians, not just using their space. Otherwise why the assimilation and acceptance lead in?
A friend in NY belongs to a church that is undergoing extensive renovation and is worshiping in the Synagogue on Sundays until that is done. This is not uncommon. It’s expensive to construct a new building.
“Diversity Goons” is the name of my new rock band.
I know MANY Jewish people and can’t think of one family that celebrates Christmas in any way, secular or otherwise, except those where one parent is Jewish and one Christian. Then I have seen both holidays being celebrated. I seriously can’t imagine a Jewish family celebrating Christmas. Why one earth would they? Do they refuse to sing Christmas songs at a school concert? No, they go along, in my experience. But that’s hardly celebrating the holiday.
And you know this how? Are you of “an other faith” yourself?
I sure hope that’s what was meant. I’ve seen that too,the making available of a space for worship by other religions. That’s, IMO, simply a rental situation or nice gesture.
if he means Jewish people were attending Christian services to get some religious time because a synagogue wasn’t convenient, well, I’ve never seen that and frankly can’t imagine it.
I’m a Christian and have attended temple for friends’ bar mitzvahs and I’ve been invited to Passover seders, that doesn’t make me Jewish or into doing either thing on my own.
How bizarre.
EVD, you may not be aware, but more traditional / observant / Orthodox Jews won’t enter a church building at all.
I don’t personally take offense to MC. But personally what always amuses me is that having grown up in the Northeast, we always said seasons greetings or happy holidays (unless you explicitly knew what the person celebrated). Businesses offered / sent holiday greetings because it was just common sense that you didn’t know what everyone was.
I mean, this was settled 40 years ago. And yet each Christmas, anew, some people in East Bumble “discover” that there are non-Christians in this country. Golly gee willikers! Aren’t they embarrassed to be so naive and backwards and behind the times?
If someone’s faith is offended by not having the entire universe acknowledge it then they’ve got bigger problems going on. Why should I care whether some random clerk says Merry Christmas, or whether a workplace holiday party has a “Christmas” theme. I mean, I get my Christmas at church, just as I would if I lived where my religion was in the minority.
@Gator88NE @OHMomof2 According to the Institute of Southern Jewish Life, the Jews worshiped alongside the Presbyterians:
I’ve provided a link, below. Of interest in that U.S. Grant’s notorious General Order 11, which ordered the expulsion of all Jews from areas under his command, was meant especially for the Jews in my hometown.
http://www.isjl.org/mississippi-holly-springs-encyclopedia.html
A majority of Jews don’t celebrate Christmas, only seven percent of Jews married to Jews have a Christmas tree, according to a Pew Survey, but 29 percent of single Jews have a tree and 71 percent have trees where one spouse is not Jewish. About 15 percent of all Jews, whether in a mixed marriage or not, attend at least one non-Jewish religious ceremony each year. I believe these numbers are probably much higher for Jews in the Deep South.
Many people cannot perceptualize the idea of a Southern Jew, in that they have traditionally been very much like everyone else. Although few Jews remain in Mississippi, they were usually treated as an integral part of the community. Many held elective office in towns where they made only a minuscule portion of the population. The first three Jews elected to the U.S. Senate were from the South, although one renounced his faith and converted to Christianity.
Just thought I would pass this on, since the thought of Jews joining in on the celebration of Christmas seems so “shocking.”
Your mind would be blown, EVD, if you went to Lakewood NJ or Monsey NY. Not to mention Williamsburg, Brooklyn. Not assimilated at all.
" If America were 90 percent Jewish I suspect Chanukah would be our national public celebration and we Christians would take part in some of the festivities and then celebrate a quieter and more private Christmas."
Chanukah is explicitly a celebration of a revolt against Jews being forced to assimilate. So, no, I really doubt you would.
That was really poorly worded on my part - so let me rephrase.
Chanukah is explicitly a celebration of a revolt by Jews against the notion of forced Jewish assimilation. It’s actually not a “all men come together, peace on earth, good will to all” kind of holiday. Nor is it by any stretch of the imagination a terribly important Jewish holiday - it just has transmogrified into one because it’s close to Christmas.
…and that’s about as “assimilated” as that holiday will ever be, IMO.
I used to work with some (male) Hasidic small business owners in W-burg and the lower east side. Learned quickly what to do and not do. No handshake when the deal is done because I’m female, for instance. And these were the Hasidim who had to interact with the non-orthodox/non-Jewish public because they owned retail stores and the like.
Here’s my story of being in the South and being Jewish. Shortly after my daughter was born, I was working on a case n Alabama in December. We met with the Judge (old old guy) and he asked me if I was excited for “Baby’s First Christmas.”
His clerk a younger man was like “Oh Judge, remember, Attorney Jara is Jewish.” And the Judge was says “Oh I’m sure she still wants to celebrate the birth of Our Lord.”
The poor clerk turned bright red. My opposing counsel who we weren’t on the best terms with called me afterwords to personally apologize and say that he was “mortified.” I told him not to worry, everyone in my family thought it was HILARIOUS!
It is hilarious! It’s also pathetic to think that there are parts of this country that are so backwards that a man could get to adulthood - and to a respectable, powerful position in his community that required some level of education - and not know that. Do people who are from the sticks like that KNOW they are from the sticks, or do they just not care?
Just playing devil’s advocate here because this conversation is so much fun, I don’t want to be left out: is there a “unity” benefit from a shared cultural experience - a unique role that Christmas fills? I can’t think of a secular national holiday in America that evokes the same communal, unified experience that is as broad or as deeply ingrained culturally as Christmas. It’s definitely a part of the American identity (I’m speaking for myself - a very Americanized immigrant only). For instance, the new year, is a very big holiday in Asian countries, on the same level as Christmas in the U.S. with shopping, gifts, food, long-distance visits with in-laws, family traditions handed down…etc. But it is not religious, of course. Without a “national” Christmas-size holiday in the U.S., I think we lose something.
I have no beef with UT’s guidelines, which are sensible and inclusive. I don’t think it downgrades Christmas in any way as some have interpreted. However, I sympathize with those who see a threat to what they believe is a united communal experience and helps establish a group identity. I think I feel this way because there isn’t a secular holiday, like lunar new year in Asia, that rivals Christmas in this regard.
If Americans all want to celebrate a holiday together we do have the 4th of July.
Sorry, it’s not Christmas. I quite enjoy hearing christmas carol’s and attending holiday parties, but no as a Jew I am not celebrating the birth of “our lord”
And Thanksgiving which also is increasingly being comingled with a certain day well-known for frenzied shopping for hoped for discounts which may not always be what they seem.
"There’s one born every minute" : the store owner’s 5-minute guide to parting fools from their money
Double price on Thanksgiving, when nobody’s shopping for consumer goods anyway–>Offer “50% discount” on Black Friday–>???–>Profit.
Yes, it happens in the South, but mostly because in some towns Jews would feel “left out”, such is the weight of the Christian faith on people’s habits. For instance, a family I know would build sukkot but go to church on Sunday because they felt they had to so they found one where they enjoyed the company and the activities (summer camp, teenagers’ trips, outdoors groups, picnics, barbecues, family gatherings, book club…) They weren’t “forced to” in any way but would have felt left out since the churches organize so many activities for families. EVD thinks this is a positive and I think it’s a negative but the decision process was a complex one and the family felt the advantages outweighted the disadvantages.
For the record, I also know Jewish and Muslim families that celebrate Santa Claus Day but not Nativity Day (the two common forms of Christmas in this country). Typically though the holidays are called “holidays”.
And yes Chanukkah got elevated to its status due to being close to Christmas. There’s also St Lucia, St Nicholas, the Soltice, Kwanzaa, many years Eid, St Sylvester, New Year’s, Epiphany/Kings’ Day… Lots of holidays take place when the nights are long and the days short.
(Strictly speaking historians estimate Jesus was born in May, while shepherds spent the nights out in the fields with their sheep.)
@PragmaticMom: actually “the” national celebration is Thanksgiving - it’s a day shared by all and is marked as “different” from all others (no work, for instance). I realize it is being cannibalized by Black Friday, which means that now retail workers, who are already poorly paid, can’t even spend the holiday with their family. It really aggravates me actually that a day of “national communion”, that both relies on belief and sharing, and depends on all being together partaking in the same thing as a nation, is being trivialized thus.
Another reason it is a “the” national holiday is that there’s a lesson (or 12) hidden in the celebration, which is milked for all it’s worth in school: children will learn Thanksgiving stories, draw hand-turkeys, speak about what they ate, discuss 19th century representations of Thanksgiving …
I believe Thanksgiving was “created” by Lincoln as a way to mend a divided country during the civil war - to remind us of our common history, common values, and just to bind us together by a tradition shared nation-wide and practiced nation-wide.
The 4th of July is a day of patriotism that makes it a national celebration too but it lacks the dual imprint of 'doing the same thing together at the same time as a nation" (there’s a bit of that with picnics and watching the fireworks but it doesn’t have the power of cooking all day, flying from all over the country to be with loved ones, watching the parade and/or football, opening the holiday season, eating “the” traditional foods that tie us to history) and the fact the whole day is set aside from the other days of the year for all (or… used to be). But the 4th of July is a key reminder of our hisory and values and would definitely rank as a national day way ahead of Christmas. 
I think it’s pretty insulting both to committed Christians for whom Christmas has real meaning and to committed people of other faiths suggest that secular Christmas “should” be a unifying national experience. And I’m one who grew up with secular Christmas in a mixed marriage household (and loved it). I think people who think that serious Jews can just “get over it” and join the merriment must be from small town places that don’t have a lot of Jews.