<p>let me put it this way:given the applicant is in the top 20% of her class, and is not ranked higher, holistically I think she needs a hi [2300] SAT to give her a reasonable chance of acceptance at the top colleges. And to Tokenadult’s post, yes there aren’t that many 2300 scorers in the US, but they DO apply to many of the SAME top schools. So she is going to be competing against the SAME students with 2300 scores at the same reach colleges she is considering.</p>
<p>What needs to be considered along with post #12 is the overall rejection rate of students who applied to Brown, which is less than 10% for students scoring less than 700 on each SAT test:
[Brown</a> Admission: Facts & Figures](<a href=“Undergraduate Admission | Brown University”>Undergraduate Admission | Brown University)</p>
<p>Class rank is even bleaker adn bears out post #21; check the Brown chart for Second tenth and below in class rank.</p>
<p>So while it’s true that one still has a relatively EQUIVALENT chance to be admitted to Brown with SATs similar to the ones noted by the OP, it’s still a relative long shot to be admitted to Brown at all, and class rank appears to play a major role .</p>
<p>But a “reasonable” chance? Yep, as long as reasonable means a 10-15% chance.</p>
<p>But that’s why we love our safeties. </p>
<p>Kei</p>
<p>"overall rejection rate of students "
I think you meant acceptance rate.</p>
<p>do keep in mind, though, that she’s at a highly rigorous private school with about 50 students in the grade… so top 20% there means she’s still in the top 10 students, and that the student body as a whole is at a higher-than-average academic level. i’m not saying it totally compensates for the test scores, only that top 20% there is very different from top 20% at any of the inner city public schools nearby.</p>
<p>like i said, i do not think she will be getting into brown, but saying that it is because she’s below the top 10% in class rank seems somewhat simplistic (if not outright misleading), never mind the fact that getting into reaches was not in the original question. the discussion seems to have gotten sidetracked somewhat.</p>
<p>Not much info there. My son has similar stats (but is probably in the top 10% at his big public high school) - I’d say for the American colleges you probably have reaches and matches, but no safeties.</p>
<p>menloparkmom, I thought when you mentioned a “remote” chance, then changed to “reasonable” chance, one needed a 2300+, I thought you were talking of any student and not just the OP. My responses to you were about ANY student and not the OP. I cannot evaluate the OP’s chances, and I tend not to on CC, as not enough information is provided to do so. But I will agree with OP that top 20% needs to be looked at in context. At an elite private prep school, top 20% may be reasonable for elite colleges who are willing to dig deeper into a high school class such as that. From our high school, a rural public school that sends one or two per year to an elite college, one would have to be in the top 2% of the class to have a reasonable chance to get into top colleges. Yes, my D was ranked first in her class and did have a perfect GPA and went to Brown. She was the only student at our high school who attended ANY Ivy that year. Her freshman roomie at Brown went to an elite private day school that was quite small (even smaller senior class than our rural school but that girl’s school was in a major city) and 8 students in her class entered Brown that year. </p>
<p>Kei…I think you meant acceptance, not rejection rate, to Brown. Yes, it is very low overall and lower for those under 750 per subtest. Nobody has a good chance of getting in. It is reachy odds for anyone. But just saying that a score below 2300 surely is in the ballpark for Brown. </p>
<p>By the way, it appears to me as well that this student needs a safety among the US schools, even though I don’t know enough about her.</p>
<p>I was ONLY talking about the OP re:2300, not in general. So I was a little taken aback by your initial post, which is why I brought up your D’s acceptance at Brown, with her top GPA and rank, but that’s H2O under the bridge at this point. And I am agreement that she needs a safety, but given this statement;
‘i think you are right about lacking a “true safety,” but due to various personal circumstances that’s incredibly difficult to find’
it’s hard to make suggestions.</p>
<p>menloparkmom, thank you for clarifying.</p>
<p>other reasons for my suggestion of 2300+. Son was right at the 20% quintile [ all B’s his freshman year] at a small top private school that sends 100% of its class to college, including, on average, 20 % of the class to one of the top 5 U’s. His very experienced GC was very reluctant to even suggest there was a remote possibility of S’s acceptance at Brown or Dartmouth, even with his fantastic scores [2320, all 750+ on 4 subject tests and top AP’s scores] But he was accepted at both. you could have knocked us all over with a feather! Perhaps another reason he did get in was he had the dept chairs of his declared major pulling for him, due to his internship with a nationally known scientist, who wrote incredible letters of recommendation. So he may have had a “hook” as there are not too many students who major in his area. All I’m saying is if he didn’t have those top test scores, I highly doubt he would have gotten the thick envelope, since he was being compared to other students with higher GPA’s. And that was 4 years ago, when fewer applicants were flooding the Ivy admissions offices.</p>
<p>To get back to the original question, going on gut feel without actually going and looking up the stats, Colgate, Barnard, Macalester, and GW seem like a set of reasonable matches (some may be reachy matches) to me. The rest are reaches of various degrees. I know several kids, male and female, who would–from what you’ve told us–blow her out of the water on pretty much all fronts who didn’t get in to Williams, Brown, and Columbia. I can’t comment on chances at the UK schools. In general, it is probably little top heavy and doesn’t include a true safety.</p>
<p>Other schools that she might want to consider are Hamilton, Vassar, Bard, Skidmore, and Sarah Lawrence.</p>
<p>How about DePaul in Chicago for a safety? Or possibly Goucher?</p>
<p>menloparkmom, but if your son was right at the top 20% mark at his elite prep school and you say that 20% of his class goes onto one of the top 5 U’s, then it is not far fetched to imagine your son having a chance at top schools such as Brown even if he was at the 20% mark and even if his SAT wasn’t as high as 2320. Top schools will go down to top 20% at a high school like your son’s. Obviously his stellar scores could only also help! And then there are so many factors in admissions (which is why I can’t evaluate the OP, too little information), but like you say, your son had a very significant internship with a wonderful rec and so on. It is not so shocking to me at all that he’d get in with his ranking given all those aspects about his profile. I just don’t think ya need 2300 to get in. I don’t know the OP but her ranking may not be bad at all in that school if it is anything like your school, in other words. Also, your son sounds like he had mostly A’s after freshman year and many top schools are even more interested in grades in tenth and up.</p>
<p>It does seem she needs some more target and safety schools. Would she consider women’s schools? Bryn Mawr comes to mind and perhaps Smith. Scripps would be a good target if she is willing to go to the west coast.</p>
<p>menlopark, I agree that what you listed all may have been factors, but I think it also helped that most (all?) his B’s were from freshman year. Over and over I’ve heard admissions officers say that they understand some kids have trouble adjusting to high school and they are willing to forgive freshman year grades.</p>
<p>
I also know of kids like this^ who did not get into Colgate. I also know of kids w/ lower stats who got into MIT and Stanford (I know, not on list. But schools really difficult to get into).</p>
<p>So, as others have said, op’s student’s stats are w/in the range of all the schools listed. One never knows w/ admissions! I would also suggested adding a safety or three. Agree w/ Skidmore and American.</p>
<p>If she likes D.C., I recommend she look at American University. My S visited D.C. and just did not click with GW but fell in love with AU.</p>
<p>my D was also top 5% of her class, 2100 sat 32 act 3.97 gpa in a rigorous magnet hs with outstanding leaderships positions and speaking 3 languages fluently, (we are Europeans) she has also double citizenship etc…she got waitlisted at Georgetown, Uof Chicago,JHU, got into Emory and American and got rejected from Brown, Columbia, and all the ivies! she is also Caucasian with no hook, if that helps… i wish you good luck, i’m glad senior year is over! it was a stressful year!</p>
<p>by the way she loved American when we visited and she did not like Emory… she is now a freshman at AU loving it!!!</p>
<p>^^ the above post is an example of yet another unhooked student with a great grades but less than top SAT scores who did not get into the most selective colleges. I maintain that at the Ivys and other top schools these days, for students who are not hooked in some way, or are not DA’s, legacies, recruited Athlete, International students [ lets’ not forget top colleges are actively recruiting from overseas] URM’s, etc- if you don’t have great SAT’s AND one other 'WoW" factor that fills a void in the class adcoms are trying to put together, then your chances of acceptance are remote at best. That’s just my read after looking at so many accepted threads over the past 4 years. YMMV.</p>
<p>Bard is an excellent choice. They are committed to liberal arts and creative folks being influential in the environment and have a dual degree that includes an arts/humanities degree and business/economics. For the interest in business/fashion that might be ideal.</p>
<p>"“overall rejection rate of students " I think you meant acceptance rate.”</p>
<p>I actually did mean rejection rate: part of our psychology when it comes to long shots is to see ourselves in the small of those that win.</p>
<p>With the HYPed schools down around 10% acceptance rate, looking at the REJECTION rate for those with one’s GPA and SAT scores can illuminating; it gives one a more realistic sense fo one’s chances.</p>
<p>For example, 74% of valedictorians who apply to Brown are rejected; 77% of those who received an 800 on Critical Reading were rejected.</p>
<p>Looking at one’s chances that way puts things in a different light.</p>
<p>Kei</p>