<p>AA: I have nothing against you. In fact, you seem like a nice guy who is trying to help others out. But once in a while, everyone, including me, holds on to assumptions which are wrong. Since you have a strong presence on CC, I don't want another person to be believe McIntire is second-tier because a respectable CC'r said so. </p>
<p>Lehman Brother's Career Contacts:
CMU:<a href="http://www.lehmanbrothers.com/careers/americas/rec_school.shtml#carnegie%5B/url%5D">http://www.lehmanbrothers.com/careers/americas/rec_school.shtml#carnegie</a>
UVa:<a href="http://www.lehmanbrothers.com/careers/americas/rec_school2.shtml#u_virginia%5B/url%5D">http://www.lehmanbrothers.com/careers/americas/rec_school2.shtml#u_virginia</a></p>
<p>CMU has one contact and its for IT Analyst Recruiting. Clearly, it is not a target school for i-bank positions. Even Tepper MBA is not a target for them.</p>
<p>UVA has two contacts specifically for undergrad for i-bank positions. Furthermore, it also 8 contacts for UVa+Darden.</p>
<p>Don't try to discredit this source. It comes straight from Lehman Brother's website. Want more evidence?</p>
<ol>
<li>I don't think you addressed my previous post. I think we cross posted :)</li>
<li>I AGREED that you are probably right. I said QUANTITY is not a measure of prestige. Also you looked at one company. How about what Microsoft thinks of Tepper grads vs McIntire grads? What about IBM? Amazon? Google? I've stated before Tepper grads can get Ibanking jobs but they TEND to go towards technical work (but at a lesser scale than MIT Sloan grads).</li>
<li>I never said CMU grads went for Ibanking. It is on a different tier OVERALL (much like Us New's overall bschool ranking rather than specialized Finance rankings). </li>
<li>Hope we resolved this misunderstanding. When I say WALL STREET, that does not always mean Ibanking. Wall Street is a loose term thrown around for prestige among Top firms.</li>
</ol>
<p>AA: #14. I wouldn't know if A is better than B and by howmuch. Or the reverse. </p>
<p>Nothing wrong in being biased. I too am for CMU with a successful kid graduating in ~40 days. He was offered an amazing opportunity today but had to turn it down because of summer commitment. But his success is his own and would have done well in any school.</p>
<p>I enjoy your boosterizm but somewhere realizm has to occur, regardless of statistics.</p>
<p>itstoomuch: I agree but I don't think I am very "biased". I have been introduced to many current seniors here at CMU and I wish you and others on this board can be introduced to them too. (You obviously know somewhat what is going on from your child). </p>
<p>I congratulate your kid but I think we disagree on whether he is the majority or minority. Do you think the majority of kids will have succeeded no matter where they went? I say CMU plays a big part in hooking its students up with jobs/careers, even if it was not true in your case.</p>
<p>Again, Congrats for your kid!!!</p>
<p>Quote from you: "CMU is consistently ranked the best for job opps and the highest for employer/recruiter prestige."</p>
<p>When the top two talked about 'business' jobs today are I-Banking and Management Consulting, I don't see how UVa can be a level below Tepper. Quantity has nothing to do with it. If you look at Lehman's site in detail, they only provide i-bank contacts for what they consider to be the top schools.</p>
<p>Sure, Tepper overrepresents in the technology sector. And that's why I said McIntire was more well-rounded as it sends its students in multiple fields. For Tepper, students predominantly take up a technology/finance oriented job. And even those who are entering i-banks are often signing up for IT back-office jobs. </p>
<p>Wall Street is not a loose term thrown around for prestige among top firms. Wall Street is a street in NYC. People who say they work in Wall Street mean that they work in finance, not as an IT specialist who happens to work in an ibank.</p>
<p>"When the top two talked about 'business' jobs today are I-Banking and Management Consulting, I don't see how UVa can be a level below Tepper."</p>
<p>Business jobs today include a variety of of things. Ibanking is actually a pretty small part of the "business" world, believe it or not. I still believe one has to look at avg salaries in this case especially when they differ from the top 5 I have listed by such discrepancies. The reason is because Tepper, while tech focused, is still VERY well rounded as seen by the job types and sends many to non-tech analyst positions not listed exactly as "Ibanking" but still at prestigious companies like Morgan/etc.</p>
<p>MIT Sloan does not do so well in Ibanking either but is it worse off in "prestige" than Tepper/Wharton/Stern/Ross? Of course not. </p>
<p>PS: Wall Street does technically mean that but among my friends and I we assign any top job from a top firm as working on WS if it is in NY. I am aware of the technical definition and immediately addressed that as our main misunderstanding in post 22.</p>
<p>Oh as for the quote, it is true as NewsWeek ranked us the Hottest Place to get a Job among all the other universities. There is a reason for doing so and I hope you can come here and talk to some current seniors on their personal experiences in how employers/recruiters have regarded the CMU degree.</p>
<p>Hottest to Get Job? I have no problem agreeing with that. But I think CS/CIT have just as much to do with that as Tepper does. And thats because, as I said before, its because a majority of Tepper students take IT jobs, which CMU is known for because of its CS/ECE/Business programs.
More Proof
Lazard: UVa
Citgroup: CMU, UVa
JP Morgan: UVa</p>
<p>JP Morgan Chase: CMU
Microsoft (accounting/consulting): CMU
Merrill Lynch: CMU</p>
<p>Point of this? :)</p>
<p>I disagree about the tech statement. I have networks among some of the seniors here and "the majority" do not take a technical job though the proportions of that happening are HIGHER than those at McIntire. I hope you can actually come to Tepper and meet these seniors before making sweeping generalizations like that. We are not a "spawn" of CIT if that is what you are implying.</p>
<p>I think we are arguing about different things such as focusing on Tech vs nonTech specialization which is far from the subject of prestige.</p>
<p>One CC'rs analyst class at an i-bank:
[quote]
Penn- 11
Yale-7
Duke- 6
Columbia- 5
Georgetown- 5
NYU Stern- 5
BC- 5
Dartmouth- 4
UVA, Cornell, Texas, Michigan, Notre Dame, Babson etc- 3 or so each
Chicago, Cornell, Brown, Princeton, Harvard- 2 each
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Also, in business in general when people are moving up the ladder, where you got your undergrad degree continues to play a strong role. UVa has a lot stronger alumni network than CMU in executive positions of Fortune 500 companies.</p>
<p>Once again, I've already addressed the I bank point (posts 26 and 29)</p>
<p>Also, how can you tell diversity from that? Can you tell me what analysts do? You will see a huge mix of ibankers, consultants, traders, and managers as well as analysts (who do everything from a to z).</p>
<p>Why do you think Darthmouth students do really well in business, moving up the ladder fast? Because of strong alumni networks. UVa has this as well.</p>
<p>I never said McIntire was better than Tepper. All I said is that there is NO way it is a level below Tepper, which you suggest. Most people would agree with me. Why don't we create a post on the general area of CC that asks if Tepper is a level above McIntire.</p>
<p>By your argument, Penn State grads are probably the most "prestigious" as it has a huge network. I think you are straying from "prestige" of employers/recruiters. You are also focusing too much on Ibanking which I have already covered in previous posts. Consulting does not matter now-a days? :( </p>
<p>By agreeing with NewsWeek's listing of CMU, you should also agree that CMU gets its students the jobs they want. Our only disagreement is whether those jobs are tech jobs or not. </p>
<p>From the link I gave you, you see a huge mix of ibankers, consultants, traders, and managers, as well as analysts (to repeat myself again).</p>
<p>I don't see any argument between us at all at this point as we are talking oranges and apples.</p>
<p>No, my argument is that McIntire is not a level below Tepper and that Tepper should not be categorized with Wharton, Ross, and Sloan. You don't agree.</p>
<p>Also, you think most important thing in determining which school has more prestige is starting job/salary. I, along with most businessmen, think its the ability for a school to move you up the ladder in your career, something that does depend on where you went to undergrad.</p>
<p>Among "prestige" and "salary" I do not agree. Among specialized fields, I can agree. </p>
<p>By prestige you can look at Wall Street Journal's ranking of Tepper for MBA as an example. It was ranked 3rd while on Us News it was ranked 15th. Difference?</p>
<p>Wall Street Journal's ranking methology was based off asking EMPLOYERS/RECRUITERS about the schools rather than having formulas like Us News.
This is what we need to get to with respects to "prestige" (I think we can agree on the salary thing though we disagree on whether it is based overly on tech fields or not).</p>
<p>You think Tepper's high salaries come from tech fields. Though the % of such is higher than at McIntire, I disagree with such analysis and will argue from the link given at <a href="http://www.cmu.edu/careercenteretc%5B/url%5D">www.cmu.edu/careercenteretc</a> that you can see a WIDE range of job types.</p>
<p>Look at top management at any large company. There are a hell lot more UVa grads in upper management than Carnegie Mellon grads. Perhaps they start off slower(I don't agree), but they rise above in the end.</p>
<p>Also when I was talking diversity in jobs, I meant fields like accounting and marketing. They receive less compensation generally than finance/consulting/IT people. 11% of McIntire grads go into marketing and 18% go into accounting.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Look at consulting, trading, analystical work, etc. Why focus on just one part?</p></li>
<li><p>UVA grads um... 196
Tepper graduated 84 in that survey last year. </p></li>
</ol>
<p>See my point about quantity? You see just as much Smeal kids as other top b-school kids at some of the firms in Wall Street too. Hell, there are even more Wisconsin kids after 10 year periods just because of the size of the graduating class.</p>
<p>It's much easier to close your eyes than seek the truth. You can't be an analyst your whole year. Many business-oriented people hope to reach top management one day. In this regard, UVa grads are much more successful than CMU grads. I don't have to prove this as its already been proven.</p>
<p>Why do many businesspeople seek MBAs when they don't learn anything of great importance? To tap into a schools great network. CMU's network is strongest in the IT industry, where it does well. But in general corporations, UVa's network is much stronger. In management, UVa's undergrad and MBA programs are consistently ranked in top 5. IT is only one sector. Management means executives in all sectors.</p>
<p>You totally closed your eyes to my main point though :(
THERE ARE MORE UVA GRADS! There are probably more Smeal kids at Upper management just because of the numbers. Let's look at some facts. </p>
<p>Let's look at this more closely:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.commerce.virginia.edu/career_services/Employers/Placement%20report/Reports/Placement_Report_2004.pdf%5B/url%5D">http://www.commerce.virginia.edu/career_services/Employers/Placement%20report/Reports/Placement_Report_2004.pdf</a>
vs</p>
<p>Refer to page 14 of the UVA grad report.</p>
<p>Fact 1: UVA has twice the grads of Tepper Uva: 2 to Merill Lynch while Tepper :4.</p>
<p>Fact 2: Microsoft/IBM/tech, we can agree CMU does better. IBM: 5 - 0.</p>
<p>Fact 3: Tepper sends 1 to Goldman Sachs. UVA: Not shown</p>
<p>Fact 4: Tepper: 4 to Lehman Brothers. UVA: Not shown.</p>
<p>Fact 5: UVA sends the most to Ernst, Pricewater, Accenture, and KPMG (all in the 10+s). Tepper sends the most to IBM(5), JPMorgan(5), Lehman(4), and Merrill (4).</p>
<p>UVa's alumni is also more close knit and loyal than CMU's alumni. That means that they often reserve positions in their companies for UVa grads.</p>