<p>I'm wondering what the deal is with the terminal masters program for philosophy at columbia. It's pretty rare that a phd program offers this for philosophy, especilly at the top places like columbia. From what I undestand, columbia has a reputation of instituing "cash cow" masters programs that are much less competitive to get into than the other schools/programs at the school. For example I've heard that many masters programs will have 80% acceptance rates. even if it is somewhere between that and 50 that would seem pretty unselective. I'm not sure if this stereotype of Columbia is true, but, if it is, my suspicion is that perhaps this is what the terminal masters for philosophy might be. </p>
<p>Does anyone know anything about this program? how competitive is it? is it mostly just to get revenues to pay for the scholarships for the phd kids?</p>
<p>Well, the reason they’re “cash cows” is that they are, in general, kind of pointless. Most competitive students don’t apply to them because they don’t exactly contribute to significant career advancement. You don’t get a stipend like PhD students because you don’t teach, and unlike professional degrees, MAs in the humanities are not a direct roads to lucrative careers. Out of curiousity, what are you planning to do with an MA in philosophy?</p>
<p>I’d be doing it in part because I would be considering a PHD. I might be slightly under-qualified to get into a good program out of undergrad. I mean I’d be pretty competitive but something like 2% get offered admissions to any of the relevant PHD programs for philosophy. So one way to go, as you probably know, is to get the masters first which can help you focus your research interests, get great recommendations ect.</p>
<p>There’s a tufts MA program that is recognized. the columbia program is another one. But if it’s a second choice for people who want to get into PHD program, then i wonder if the acceptance standards would be as diminished as other Columbia masters programs.</p>
<p>The other thing to investigate is how many PhD programs accept MA courses? (If top PhD program will not offer you credit for courses taken in a MA program, you will have to repeat them, or taking something else at PhD college.)</p>
<p>MA classes (at least in the humanities) are rarely transferable. That’s not the way it works. </p>
<p>Courses at the PhD level would not be repeats of classes at the MA level.</p>
<p>Many PhD students have MAs from other universities. Many MA programs are noted for being excellent launching pads to top PhD programs. The key is to ask the MA program DGS about their PhD placement rate, and to identify some of the PhD programs to which recent students have been accepted.</p>
<p>Ah, I’m really glad to see someone asking this question. </p>
<p>I had been considering the one-year master’s program in political science at UChicago, but had very similar thoughts about it basically being a cash grab. The editor at my school’s paper got accepted, and while he’s a smart enough guy, he seemed to be of lesser caliber than I’d expect for a grad program at that school. </p>
<p>My reasons for being interested are very much like those of the OP - I’ve got a reasonably strong record, but don’t know if I’d quite be ready for a PhD program. More importantly though, is that I’ve got about three solid future career options laid out for myself, all of which would benefit from just having a master’s in something like Poli Sci rather than a full commitment to a PhD. I think it could be a strong place to start with either of the three things, and time spent in travel and workforce would surely guide me toward the right path.</p>
<p>I don’t know about philosophy, but Columbia, the whole entire graduate school there, screams of cash cowing. Living in NYC is very, very costly, and on top of that, Columbia’s suffocating tuition will be enough to put you out of your philosophical musings on the metaphysical validity of your earning statements. </p>
<p>Several of my friends have gone there for East Asian Language and Culture, English, and comparative literature, they work in restaurants and teach a million classes to feed the dollar-green pasture that is Columbia, which, ironically, being situated in NYC, perpetuates the largest ponzi scheme like its counterparts on the other end of Manhattan except, of course, that its scheme of ponzi sells you nothing out of which you sell nothing: a tautology. </p>
<p>Personally, among all of the MA programs, I think Boston college offers the most comprehensive program in continental philosophy.</p>
<p>Is it Columbia you are warning against specifically, or just humanities MA’s in general? (The fact is that a humanities MA from any college is not easily marketable in the real world, nor for that matter is a hume BA.)</p>
<p>btw: Does BC ‘fund’ MA students? (Boston is not exactly a low-cost town either.)</p>
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<p>I’ guess I don’t understand.</p>
<p>A college like Columbia offers dozen of graduate courses in say History. Are you suggesting that not all of those courses will be acceptable for the PhD program?</p>
<p>From Duke’s website:</p>
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<p>Thus, a full year at Columbia of relevant coursework gets you one semesters’ worth in Durham, at least for $$$$</p>
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<p>Thus previous course work can count, but not the $$ paid out.</p>
<p>I’m ambivalent about this kind of program. On the one hand, it does sometimes prepare kids who’ve gone to less-rigorous undergraduate institutions, and don’t initially have a prayer of getting into a good PhD program (and would crash and burn if they did somehow get admitted). In a field like philosophy, where there are practically no jobs for PhDs, you want to get into the absolutely best program you can and with the maximum amount of fellowship support, for which you need super-strong credentials. Otherwise your chances of launching a rewarding academic career, slim anyhow, drop to simply nil. At the university where I teach, we typically accept a few outstanding kids from the MA class each year into the PhD program; they did not qualify initially or we would have accepted them as PhD candidates in the first place. They can just continue in the program as third-year PhD students; if they go to another institution, however, they will probably have to do at least a year of coursework.</p>
<p>On the other hand, “many are called and few are chosen;” a ton of hopeful students who enter such MA programs are not going to do well enough in them to proceed further. Sometimes, especially at private high schools, a humanities MA from a prestigious institution will make somebody a desirable candidate for a teaching position, but there’s not much use for the degree otherwise.</p>
<p>In my opinion, people should only do such courses if they have the funds available (i.e. do not have to borrow) and would be satisfied with having spent a year or so doing something interesting even if it turns out that a PhD is not in their future.</p>
<p>Students who are good enough to get into PhD programs will typically be issued the MA along the way, usually after they have completed the coursework part of the degree. So you don’t need to get an MA first in a stand-alone program, and if you decide to leave a PhD program mid-stream you can usually arrange to get the MA as a sort of consolation prize, so your time won’t have been entirely wasted.</p>
<p>Professor X is right, policies vary, but in my experience most PhD programs will give you some credit for your MA from another institution. However, it’s not always a good idea to accelerate, because one purpose of your PhD courses is to acquaint you with the faculty so that you will know which people you will want to work with, and you will have time to develop a dissertation topic. Therefore many PhD students with MAs from other institutions, especially those who have fellowship funding anyway, just end up starting over from scratch no matter what the institutional policies are.</p>
<p>It’s actually a better idea to accelerate at the dissertation stage. Many people spend years plugging away at their dissertations, but if you’re organized and have a good topic, you can knock it out in a year or a year and a half.</p>
<p>Yup, that was my point to the OP as an additional consideration. As one college Professor told me, a humanities MA can be a “wasted year because you have to start over”.</p>
<p>If you think you’re not qualified for PhD straight out, take some time off and work. That will make undergrad grades less relevant. At Yale, a 1 or 2 year master’s at another school saves you ONE semester. That’s it. One. It doesn’t even save you money, since you get paid to attend a PhD program here, not the other way around.</p>
<p>@bluebayou:
I don’t know much about Columbia’s graduate programs besides its notoriously competitive and expensive MA/Ph.D English/Comp Lit programs, and their cash cowing practices in the fields of East Asian Language and Culture.
The former is just by gossip among graduate students and my colleague’s dreadful tales about the horror stories of his friends in NYU/Columbia working full time while doing MFA in English.
In general, interdisciplinary programs such as Cultural Studies, run away, ethnic studies, run away, Master Program in humanities: it is like rolling in casino.</p>
<p>A terminal MA in philosophy “at any school, not just Columbia” is only useful only if you continue on to PhD at some other school. Unless you are doing for only your personal enrichment and not for career preparation. </p>
<p>You don’t hear many MA in Philosophy people making lucrative income.</p>