My D is a violinist and a rising senior. Short list is narrowed down to all out of state schools (Oberlin, UC Boulder, DePauw McGill) but we have not visited any schools yet because our family can only afford a single visit and wanted to try for a lesson, visit, and audition in one trip. Is this possible on audition weekends? I have read this can have a negative effect if the lesson doesn’t go well or the teacher wants major changes. I don’t want to hurt her chances, but I just don’t have the financial resources to fly everywhere multiple times this year. Some families fly out for a lesson and visit, again for live auditions, and back again for accepted student weekends. Any advice on how others have handled this? Any experience with skype lessons?
We did it both ways. Did not seems to matter, in terms of results, whether the sample lesson was well prior or was the same weekend as the audition. What did seem to matter a great deal was the act of getting a sample lesson, not the timing. My son was admitted all the places he had a sample lesson, and his denials all did not include a sample lesson.
Did you have a problem arranging sample lessons over audition weekends or the day before/after? I’ve heard that can be a problem, but I’m hoping if we arrange it ahead of time, maybe we can do it the Monday after audition weekend? Did it impact your son mentally if the sample lessons were before of after auditions? Thank you so much for responding. I’m feeling a little overwhelmed by the process.
Ok, from our experience during the audition visit, some teachers would not give lessons prior to the audition, some would but would rather listen to songs not in the audition repertoire and some would just let you in one of his/her studio lessons as a listener. It was easier to get appointments with the teacher for a full trial lesson after the audition. So to answer your question, you might, depending on the teacher. I hope this helps.
Here are a few suggestions for you. And note for UG my vocalist did ONE sample lesson only and got plenty of acceptances.
Consider calling music admissions at each school to discuss your situation. You can ask about how best to approach a teacher about a lesson or viewing a lesson during audition time. Honestly tell them about your financial constraints and sincere interest in the school. Trust me…others are in the same boat asking the same questions. They should give you some feedback from very helpful to a little helpful. You’ll also start getting a feel for the schools by talking direct to them.
Then your kid can email/contact a desired teacher directly . Your kid should acknowledge the imperfect timing but simply state that for financial reasons she can’t come earlier. Also she should say that she’ll understand if it’s not possible to meet at such a busy time but that she has a strong interest in the school and the teacher. In this way the teacher is on notice of interest.
Teachers/schools do have hearts. They get it’s expensive. BUT then your D needs to go the extra mile in communication to make it clear why she did not do a sample lesson. In that way it should not be held against her.
Note my D was accepted into a school she never visited. For a grad program she called and explained she just didn’t have the money to fly there. They accepted her video audition and gave her an acceptance with merit aid.
And if you have questions about Boulder for OOS tuition (saw your other question) ask that when you call too. Just ask if there are extra dollars awarded to UG music students. If you cant afford it without any aid, tell them it’s a concern and you want to be sure there’s at least a possibility of merit aid for UG students. Again they should give some general feedback.
Good luck!
I wouldn’t worry about sample lessons in terms of the effect they might have on acceptance, but it could be helpful to figure out, from your daughter’s perspective, if a teacher might be a good fit. Trying to schedule a lesson, or even a quick meeting on audition weekend should be fine. I know many, many students who did not have sample lessons, were accepted to a studio, and went on to study happily with that teacher.
I agree with glassharmonica. And of course the audition day(s) are often helpful in figuring out fit for a school. Some schools ask for desired studio with the application, which is tough for those who have not had contact with professors personally.
You could pursue the Skype idea. In an ideal world, student and professor would fit not only musically but personally and even a conversation can help with the latter.
@bp4242 , it was hit or miss but I think there was only one school that could not accommodate us for a lesson during the weekend of auditions. Often he did the lesson on the Friday or Thurs and then had a Saturday audition. The lessons also helped my son evaluate if he wanted to study with that teacher, but I agree with others that it is not the end of the world if your D cannot do sample lessons before the audition. In fact, I just remembered the school he is attending did not have time for lessons beforehand so he took a sample lesson after he was admitted in order to be certain of the teacher (so I misremembered when I said he was not admitted where he did not have a lesson, though at the two places that did deny him he was unable to schedule a lesson).
Thank you so much to everyone for their advice. One more question. Are students assigned to a studio when they are admitted? If so, if we did a sample lesson after D was admitted and it did not go well, how hard is it to change?
It depends. In our case the only school that assigned studios with the acceptance letter was Peabody.
How do they know which teacher they will be studying with? Based on your image, I’m wondering if your son or daughter goes to Oberlin? Can you tell me how that process was in terms of who they study with? Oberlin is her top choice.
Studio placement timing can depend on the school, the instrument and even the teacher. Some schools are uniform. Some are not. However all have a process (in general). Asking on here is good. Be sure to check the instrument however. Again you can always call the school or as you interact more with the school, the general process for studio assignments will become clear (kind of).
As for moving teachers/studios, there is no clear answer either. In some cases, it can be a simple process (particularly schools with big faculties). My D was at IU for UG which has a large voice faculty so moving to another teacher was not a big deal…particularly in UG. For grad students however some teachers seemed to get “hurt feelings”. This is hard to figure out until a little later in the process however…when you actually have a school and teacher secured.
So…how do you figure this all out (or as I say “how do you eat an elephant”)? One bite as at a time! And believe it or not, at some time next April, you’ll see a clear light.
Continue to ask questions. Don’t be afraid to call music admissions as much as necessary (you don’t have to give your kid’s name so it won’t be held against them). Keep working the list of schools and teachers. And have faith as you get closer to auditions and meeting faculty it will become more clear.
But in your list, you may want to make room for size of faculty for your instrument. Is there one teacher or three or five for her instrument? Because that could be one of the many deciding factors as you get into April.
For grad school my daughter did auditions and then asked for sample lessons after acceptance if she did not already know the prof–that’s always an option if you end up with a faculty assignment and don’t know the teacher and cuts down on flying around to places that you might not end up apply to or being admitted at.
My D is a vocal performance rising sophomore at Oberlin. She was lucky to attend the vocal performance high school summer academy at Oberlin during her rising senior year. She was able to take classes with most of the faculty prior to applying which was very helpful for her choice.
Thank you, again. Great information!
Hi there. My daughter is also a violinist and about to begin her freshman year at NEC in August. She applied to Curtis, Juilliard, NEC and CIM, each chosen for the teacher at each school in which she was interested (based on her own research and the advise her teachers). She was invited to a live audition at Juilliard, NEC and CIM. She already knew the teacher she wanted at CIM from a summer institute so she did not approach him for a lesson. With NEC and Juilliard she emailed each teacher (only 1 at each school) and requested a sample lesson or to possibly sit in on a lesson of another student at some point in the audition weekend. Both of them gave her one. The teacher at Juilliard saw her on audition day and charged a fee but was very apologetic about it (and didn’t cash the check until after he accepted her into his studio). The teacher at NEC agreed to meet with her on audition day to talk and then invited my daughter have a lesson the Tuesday after audition day (we changed her return flight to accommodate the lesson).
She was admitted to all 3 schools. CIM gave her acceptance, studio assignment and aid package all in one letter (2nd choice teacher). Juilliard and NEC gave acceptance one day, aid package another day and studio assignments FINALLY the last few days before decision day. She got her first choice for both of these schools.
At Juilliard it was a standard lesson and she was able to learn his teaching style and know that she would be happy studying with him. At NEC they worked on only one line of music but my daughter was given very strong encouragement that this teacher wanted her and would endeavor to make it work, though no promises. She was approached by one other teacher after auditions (whom she also knew from a summer institute) and was basically told “let me know if I can help you in any way”.
The experience was very positive and enlightening for my daughter because she could be sure of her decision either way.
Waiting for the final word from each studio was the worst! But worth it.
Best of luck to your daughter!!
Thank you for all of this information. Who did your daughter work with at CIM in the summer program? Do you remember impressions about teaching style? CIM was on her short list until the recent Cavani fiasco, but I don’t think she’s quite ready to take it off her list completely. We know a few CIM alum, but they graduated so long ago, it’s only slightly helpful.
As far as undergrad VP studio assignments, it varied by school for S18. At USC-Thornton the teacher he had a sample lesson with emailed S18 to invite him to join his studio, a few days after acceptances went out. At Miami-Frost, S18 had a pre-audition sample lesson with the voice chair, who suggested a specific teacher. At FSU, if S18 had not spoken up I suspect the voice coordinator would have assigned S18 one of 3-4 excellent teachers who typically teach his voice type; but S18 requested a certain teacher after he was admitted, and followed up with the teacher to make sure that request was approved as it made a difference in his college selection. At smaller schools the teacher pool was smaller so it was pretty obvious who would teach him. As for switching, one of S18’s considerations in picking a larger VP program was that he is comfortable that if his teacher were to move on, there are still 3 or so other excellent studio options and the program has a track record of outstanding hires to replace departing faculty.
I’m not sure what you mean by Cavani fiasco. My D attended Heifetz International Music Institute in the summer of 2017. She went primarily to study with a Juilliard teacher in which she was interested and it turned out to be a good experience but not a good fit. But while she was there she also observed Ilya Kahler and had several friends who studied with him there. When she was accepted to CIM she was actually placed in her 2nd choice teacher’s studio - Ilya’s wife Olga. She did not really like CIM after visiting at auditions so that influenced her decision also.
I was referring to CIM firing the Cavani quartet and reorganizing their chamber music program. That was the main reason the school was even on her list.