test optional admissions policy - who is it supposed to help?

Parents Forum
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<p>I have seen some schools going "test optional". I am a cynic by now when it comes to all sorts of cockamamie admissions policies of the colleges/universities.</p>

<p>On the surface, it sounds so noble. "Oh, some terrific students may not be a good test taker. We believe 3+ years of academic performance and dedication demonstrated by GPA and courage rigor is a far better indicator, and as such, we would like to give these terrific students an opportunity to apply via our test optional route".</p>

<p>Well, they could simply ignore poor test scores and admit whoever they believe demonstrate a potential to be a terrific success on campus without this new policy.</p>

<p>I think the real beneficiaries of this policy are the schools and their administrators whose bonus is predicated on the USNWR ranking and prestige, etc. The likely outcomes of the test optional policy are: </p>

<p>(1) increased application number (those students with poor test scores but with good GPA feel now that they have a chance). The result: decreasing acceptance rate.</p>

<p>(2) increased SAT number the schools can publish and feed to the ranking agencies. Now, they can officially, and legitimately omit the low test scores from the enrolled/admitted students profiles and stats since they don't have this data in their system</p>

<p>(3) increased GPA and class rank: what kind of applicants do you think this policy will encourage to apply?</p>

<p>(4) perhaps even increased yield: those high GPA but low SAT students may not be easily admitted to betters schools with financial aids and what not. so they are likely to "stay put" once they get the acceptance letter.</p>

<p>(1)+(2)+(3) together account for 10% of USNWR ranking score.</p>

<p>OK. I may sound overly cynical. But, the fact is, they could choose to admit all the potentially wonderful students with low GPA even without this test optional policy if their goal is to truly select the students based on what they think is a true reflection of the student's potential. The only real resulting difference is the school's data set that needs to be published and fed to various outside agencies</p>

<p>Is my cynicism way over the top? What do you think?</p>

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<p>Given the fact that US News dropped some test-optional schools from their rankings entirely because the schools weren’t submitting test scores to them… I think you are (a) poorly informed, and (b) off base.</p>

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<p>this is not true. within top 30 USNWR ranking, Wake Forest for instance is a test optional school. </p>

<p>Please provide the source showing which schools USNWR dropped because of the testing optional policies. ALso provide the source that says specifically that the schools that were dropped were dropped because of the test optional policy, NOT because of some other reasons.</p>

<p>Here is a list of test optional schools.</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.fairtest.org/university/optional[/url]”>http://www.fairtest.org/university/optional&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>granted, a lot of schools are not well known at all and way below USNWR’s radar, but there are schools on this list that are fairly well known and alive and well on the USNWR ranking.</p>

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<p>Like most things, I think this is about money. Test-optional can be used as a recruiting tool for full-pay kids who are otherwise decent enough students but whose scores are below the desired mark. This lets the college get paid while not taking a hit on their average SAT scores. It’s a business.</p>

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<p>OP, you might want to look at "Behind the SAT-Optional Movement: Context and Controversy,” by Jonathan P. Epstein in the Journal of College Admission, 2009:<br>
<a href=“http://www.maguireassoc.com/resource/documents/SAT_optional_article-NACAC_Journal_College_Admission_J.Epstein_7-09.pdf[/url]”>http://www.maguireassoc.com/resource/documents/SAT_optional_article-NACAC_Journal_College_Admission_J.Epstein_7-09.pdf&lt;/a&gt; </p>

<p>Here is a snippet from the article:</p>

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<p>A statistical analysis can be found in the manuscript "Voluntary Disclosure and the Strategic Behavior of Colleges,” by Michael Conlin, Stacy Dickert-Conlin and Gabrielle Chapman: <a href=“https://www.msu.edu/~conlinmi/SATvoluntarydisclosure10-08.pdf[/url]”>https://www.msu.edu/~conlinmi/SATvoluntarydisclosure10-08.pdf&lt;/a&gt; </p>

<p>Here is an excerpt from the abstract:</p>

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<p>In other words, if you see two otherwise identical applicants, one of whom submits a low SAT score and the other who does not submit, the school is more likely to accept the one who does not submit.</p>

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<p>I’m going with this.</p>

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<p>I thought test-optional was to…</p>

<p>1) get more moneyed int’l students applying who because of language difficulties may not test well.</p>

<p>2) to get more money’d American students who have modest test scores.</p>

<p>3) to not have to count their scores in their avgs.</p>

<p>Many/most of these test optional school do require tests for merit scholarship consideration so that kind of shoots their belief that some very smart kids simply are lousy test takers…otherwise they wouldn’t require SATs/ACTs for merit consideration.</p>

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<p>I know of 2 schools in VA that do this, and both do so to increase their “name”. Our DD was offered this by one school, and this college was not even on her radar. Not only did they waive the tests, but because she had a high gpa, and a strong ACT they waived everything, including the fee. The only thing they requested was a “sealed” transcript from the school. They even stated in their letter that she would be accepted in 5 days from receipt of the transcript. ***I know this was not the typical letter, because kids argued with her saying they didn’t get that offer, so she took the letter to show to them as proof. </p>

<p>What I found interesting was at the end of the yr where they publish the colleges the kids are going to, this college had a lot of students, where yrs previously, they had 1 maybe 2.</p>

<p>Obviously, it worked for these schools.</p>

<p>That being said, knowing the students that went this route, they did not get higher academic students, the higher students still did the traditional route of the Flagship universities within the state.</p>

<p>I see this aspect like I see rolling admissions, it is a marketing tool to get kids to apply, just from the safety issue of having a college back up, if it is not their 1st choice. </p>

<p>Remember kids talk at school, they talk about where they are applying to for next yr. Getting that name out there in an economy that is hurting helps. It is a cheap way to get the name out there compared to running ads or sending out big marketing packages.</p>

<p>Also, these colleges aren’t saying that you will get in, just that you don’t have to submit the SAT. For kids that are poor test takers, they will throw that fee to them, again, if for no other reason than having a safety at an early date. Do the math, if they can get 5K people paying 55 bucks just to have their application reviewed, they just made a pretty chunk of change for their bottom line.</p>

<p>Parents tend to forget kids worry about getting into colleges, and these colleges IMHPO are thinking like the kid, by doing this it calms their fears.</p>

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<p>I am not aware of any test-optional schools that US News has dropped from its rankings. The majority of students who apply to test-optional schools do submit scores, and test-optional schools publish score ranges in their Common Data Sets and happily report score ranges (which are skewed high, since applicants with the lowest scores don’t submit them) to US News.</p>

<p>The only school I’m aware of that US News dropped for score-related reasons is Sarah Lawrence, and that’s because Sarah Lawrence does not consider scores at all. Students don’t have the option to submit them.
[Sarah</a> Lawrence Removed from Ranks of Ranked](<a href=“http://www.slc.edu/news-events/archived/2007-2008/2007-08-17.html]Sarah”>http://www.slc.edu/news-events/archived/2007-2008/2007-08-17.html)</p>

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<p>Clearly, the schools are getting something out of it. At the same time, different schools have unique cultures, and some schools may have figured out that their most successful students aren’t necessarily the ones who came in with the highest test scores (but who had other strengths).</p>

<p>D3 fits the profile of That Kid With the Good Grades But Mediocre Test Scores, so she looked into test-optional schools. She had a very different experience at three:</p>

<p>(1) Proclaimed to be test optional but demanded to know her test scores at the interview and responded negatively when she refused to share that information. She ended up not applying there, for other reasons.</p>

<p>(2) Test optional, but the school later encouraged her to submit test scores so they could consider her for merit aid. She sent the scores expecting that they would kill the application (her scores were markedly lower than the school’s published average), but was pleasantly surprised to receive a large scholarship package.</p>

<p>(3) Test optional, but with an alternate evaluation procedure consisting of submission of graded papers. This school also came through with a fantastic scholarship.</p>

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<p>The single best predictor for all measures of college success is the secondary school transcript. That is why test scores aren’t necessary for most college admissions.</p>

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<p>happy,</p>

<p>I am surprised by your response since you are from MD. UMDCP is a stat oriented school. VA flagships are stat oriented too. When I say stat oriented, SAT is a big player in the game for these two states.</p>

<p>I don’t know what most colleges you are talking about, but on the east coast for flagship universities, the SAT/ACT plays into the equation BIG TIME.</p>

<p>I am with you for smaller colleges, and even private, but due to this economy the bigger ones have been having banner yrs for the past couple of yrs.</p>

<p>Our DD was IS for VA received her acceptances to the well known colleges in our state, that don’t do the test optional. In her acceptance letter she was told the spot would be only held for 15 days due to the amount of applicants.</p>

<p>State U’s that are competitive, such as UMDCP or UMBC do place the test scores into their admittance decision.</p>

<p>UNCCH, UVA, PSU, and NYU are great examples along with UMDCP and VTech. </p>

<p>It all depends on what most colleges fill your parameter for admission. IMHO IS or OOS play a greater impact for high tier state schools than the test score.</p>

<p>For example. a kid from Idaho will probably get into UMDCP with a lower stat over than OOS from NJ/NY because UMDCP wants national diversity.</p>

<p>It is a whole package.</p>

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<p>I think what happymom was trying to infer was that test scores offer little more information than what is contained on a HS transcript. Thus, while they may be used for admissions is a big way – and students must take them, test scores are really not “necessary” per se since they offer little additional information.</p>

<p>The Univ of California has years of studies on this point. HS transcript alone is worth xx predictor of Frosh grades. Test scores alone are worth yy predictor of Frosh grades. But transcript+test scores does not equal xx+yy. The marginal benefit of the SAT/ACT over HS transcript is minimal. (Subject Test scores actually have a higher predictive value than the SAT I.)</p>

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<p>“The single best predictor for all measures of college success is the secondary school transcript.”</p>

<p>^^ Yes, but with so much grade inflation and some schools not weighting the gpa (or weighting more heavily/generously than others), comparing transcripts from two schools can be like comparing apples and oranges. Also, the transcript and standardized test scores (not necessarily SAT I scores) TOGETHER are more predictive that either measure alone.</p>

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<p>I agree with foolish, it is insane how the system works. We were military, and our children in the Talented and Gifted program K-8 had to always re-test. </p>

<p>Our county during our DD’s jr yr decided to re-weight not only the AP/IB system, but we went from a 7 pt scale to a 10 pt scale for the gpa.</p>

<p>Colleges must re-work the hs system to their own criteria. School profiles add into the equation too. SAT are not the make or break issue, but the fallacy that “The single best predictor for all measures of college success is the secondary school transcript.” HURTS every parent in this process by pretending SAT/ACT scores mean squat.</p>

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<p>^^sorry, but I don’t see the logic of your conclusion b&p. </p>

<p>Let’s take an extreme example. HS transcript is a good predictor of say, 50% of Frosh grades. SAT/ACT scores are 40%. So, clearly, the statement is true: HS transcript is the best predictor and better than SAT/ACT scores. But it does not mean that SAT/ACT scores mean “squat” – they just have less predictive value than a transcript.</p>

<p>But the real point is that the two independent pieces are not additive, i.e., one cannot simply add 50% + 40% and make it equal a 90% predictive value. On the contrary, the two combined are more like 55%. Thus, adding one to the other is of marginal benefit. And, one then has to weigh in the marginal costs of all that testing…</p>

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<p>Sarah Lawrence was dropped from US News rankings because of its non-use of test scores in the admissions process. See [Sarah</a> Lawrence Removed from Ranks of Ranked](<a href=“http://www.slc.edu/news-events/archived/2007-2008/2007-08-17.html]Sarah”>http://www.slc.edu/news-events/archived/2007-2008/2007-08-17.html)</p>

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<p>Not all h.s. transcripts are equal. Some are highly inflated. Those are very poor predictors of college success.</p>

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<p>Amen to that!!! My older son went to a magnet school with GPA deflation. Yet, the average SAT CR+M was approaching 1350-1400. There is NO way one can say a 3.5 GPA from this school and a perfect 4.0 GPA from a school with significant grade inflation and an average SAT CR+M of 1100 have comparable predictive power for college success. </p>

<p>My S2’s high school is revising it’s GPA calculation method from next year on. Out of curiosity, I computed his GPA using the next year’s method, and lo and behold, his GPA was 0.4 higher. On a 4.0 scale, this is a huge difference. So, a computation model variance can result in a wildly fluctuating GPA and class ranking.</p>

<p>You can argue that admission officers carefully look at each transcript to examine class rigor etc, but in large schools dealing with tons of applications (e.g., large public schools), it seems to be quite common that they simply take what the school provides and plug that into a numbering system as an initial screening step.</p>

<p>As much as we deplore test bias and what not of the standardized tests, they provide important measure of apples to apples comparison, and I don’t think they should be dismissed.</p>