The middle 50% at Duke is 33-35, not your typical window
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The issue is that the scores have gotten so high at many schools that it forces many bright kids to go TO. I just went on BC’s site and for the class of 2026, the 75th percentile was a 34 and the 25th percentile was a 33. So using the 50% as a barometer that is what 33.5? So to be safe a 34. The problem with a 34 is that only a small fraction of kids (which we all obviously know) get that score. Incredibly bright and well rounded kids are getting 30, 31, 32 on the ACT and if they want to go to BC, they are told they shouldn’t submit. So the cycle repeats and now only if you get a 34 you submit, with the end result that for the next cycle the average goes up even more.
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Yes exactly. BCs ACT scores for 2027 are 25th 33 75th 35. Creeps higher and higher.
I don’t disagree that the upward trajectory doesn’t make sense and is unsustainable (won’t stop until only 36s are submitting).
Regarding BC, I encourage your student to do an admission session to see what the AOs say. And if they don’t address it, have your kid ask their AO for direction.
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My D23 did not want to take SAT or study for it… I insisted (she almost hated me for that.)
We did not do any tutors, programs etc. I bought couple of books and guided her with Math.
She took SAT 4 times - very late - the last one in November (started only in June prior to senior year due to sickness). We had a very sad accident in the family, so for the last 2 attempts she went totally cold turkey unprepared and not in a good mood. But she surprised everyone and herself and got a high score in Math. That provided boost for the 4th attempt. As a result, she became eligible for several scholarships and became a more competitive candidate for 2 DO programs that she applied (and got into both).
On the other hand, she went test optional for UMD, and got even Dean’s scholarship…
I would encourage your student to self-study, and definitely send a score if it shows that the student is competitive.
I agree with @AustenNut that unless your student applies to the very top schools 1400+ SAT is good. I would not bother to submit score below 1400.
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Just wondering what Tulane says - you say they are very clear as to what scores should be submitted? Tulane has bounced on and off our list so I haven’t learned as much about it as I should. 
The problem with “50% of students didn’t submit” is that a very large number of the non-submitters are usually recruited athletes or otherwise hooked students.
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It is funny, but during some college fair last fall at DD’s HS, actually Tulane rep (DD initially considered Tulane) said not to send scores below 1400…But the rep actually strongly recommended sending a scored above 1400 when available…
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I haven’t done an admissions session there yet for 2024-25…but they generally give guidance at those on what test scores to send.
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Simple approach for high GPA student. SAT max is 800 for Math and 800 for Reading/Grammar. 1-4 questions wrong on each gives different test scores depending the difficulty of the test but would be above 700. (There is a table somewhere that shows it for particular test, so you can get an idea.) People may agree or disagree, but 700 on each section is a respectable score for a good student. That makes it 1400. For Engineering student 1500 is a great score (750×2). Once you break 1500 it doesn’t matter is it 1530, 1550, 1560 etc. You are a strong candidate and the rest of your application matter.
I am not familiar with ACT but you can apply the same logic.
On the other hand 4.0 student with 1200-1300 on SAT is kind of a red flag that something doesn’t add up.
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Unless hooked, you are not getting into Duke or similar schools with a REPORTED score below 1500/33. If a school has 50%+ not submitting scores and that is the number reported, one can easily conclude that those not submitting scores fall below that.
I have not looked at CDs in a while but I wonder how many truly elite schools have >50% attending students not submitting scores (@Mwfan1921 can probably answer that)? I am willing to bet not many. Used to be that USN would dock points for >50% not submitting scores but not so sure now. The point here is that Ivy+ schools will require a very strong academic record and/or a hook. Other tryhard schools will try to match that, hence the line “don’t send in your score if it is not 1400” and similar.
Finally, as I said on another thread, scores mean less and less each year and your ability to pay means more and more. Unfortunately, most participants on this board are upper middle with standard strong candidates, so we are the screwed class. If your kid is a truly elite student then you know and just apply. If not, figure out how you can scrounge together more money, shotgun and pray.
Or, you can do what my son did, apply to auto merit schools. Or, be happy to go to your state’s flagship like my daughter is doing.
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I am finding this thread, very, very informative. My DD is an excellent student. She’s currently ranked number one in her junior class out of more than 600 students. Almost all APs. She has outstanding extracurriculars and very good leadership. However, she has taken two SAT exams and has not finished either section. Both times she has scored in the upper 1200s. We have begged her to study and work on strategy. She absolutely refuses. We do not know what sort of mental obstacle she is having, but studying for the SAT or the ACT has created a WAR ZONE in my home. At this point and at the rate she is going, I suspect she will only apply test optional. That is what she has hinted. We are thinking that is going to hurt her admissions process next fall. By the way, we are in the upper socioeconomic class, so we don’t qualify for any financial aid. I’m curious as to your thoughts. Thanks
What is she thinking of studying and does she have an idea of where she would like to go?
Maybe ask her HS GC to talk to her? Just to see if there is anything going on that should be/can be addressed?
First step is to ascertain if she wants apply to any schools that require test scores like the Florida/Tenn/selective GA publics/MIT/Purdue. If so, she will need to prep.
There are some schools that strongly prefer test scores…I would put Auburn and UMich in this category.
After taking into account those schools, applying TO will likely be ok at the rest. As a junior, she does have time to soften her stance/change her mind/decide to focus on testing too.
It depends on where she is applying and her profile beyond her grades. Have kids from her school had success with TO?
Looking at results from our school, kids who have success applying TO to top schools usually have a pretty clear hook.
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This is where a Tudor may help. For my kids, it was more about making time each week than actually learning content.
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Business or some form of data analytics. She does not seem too picky about location, but she has commented that she will only consider a top 60 school.
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Our high school is zoned to an area of mixed demographics. There are both rich kids and poor kids at this high school. Oddly enough, they do not seem to clash, and my kids have lots of friends from different Socioeconomic groups. From my observations, the only test optional kids that have been accepted into top schools are the poorer kids.
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Agree that it depends on what she wants to study and where she wants to go.
I recently took our son to an event that had several admissions directors from SLACs and one from a top public college. All of the SLAC admissions people were very whatever about test scores. They did a mock admissions evaluation and the fake applicant had close to a 4.0, good APs, and extracurriculars, and the comment was that only an excellent SAT score would compliment his application, anything below amazing would take away from it.
The state school (one of the best) rep said they “liked to see” test scores, especially for STEM areas. He said that they had seen some lower ability in math than they liked during the last few years.
My own alma mater (a top 15 SLAC) just released their 2027 class profile. 58% of total applicants submitted scores, but 59% of accepted applicants did not. One data point but an interesting one. As common data sets come out this year, I think that particularly among SLACs we will see a decrease in test submission and an ever-growing increase in early decision.
I doubt the same will be true for engineering, more STEM leaning schools, or elite competitive publics.
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So you asked for advice so I’ll gently offer it. First off, do everything in your power to prevent a war zone in your house regarding the college application process. Your daughter sounds high achieving and many of those kids have perfectionist tendencies and her struggling with the SAT format might be triggering anxiety for her. Personally, I would find someone to offer another voice in this process if you’re already seeing conflict. Whether it’s a college counselor to help navigate, a therapist to deal with anxiety, or even just a trusted person she can talk to that isn’t her parent.
Some kids have no interest in a competitive, high stress process. My son was that way. His older sister was a shoot for the moon type, and he watched the work she put into essays, supplemental essays, scholarship essays, honors college essays, you get the idea, and made it pretty clear he wasn’t interested. He had an ivy coach reach out to him regarding recruiting and bluntly told us, he wasn’t interested. If your daughter wants to apply TO and is fine that it takes some schools out of the running - great. Now you have a criteria to narrow down the list. If schools fall off the list that she’s truly interested in it might change her mind.
Best of luck to you, it can be a tough process. Do anything you can to take as much stress out of it as possible.
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