@socaldad2002 According to this article, https://www.chronicle.com/article/How-Will-Covid-19-Affect-the/249083 at least 2/3 of students haven’t been able to take the SAT and 75% have yet to take the ACT. In parts of the country, testing will not be available in the fall because of the virus. Even though SAT and ACT are adding test dates, that does not guarantee that students will have the opportunity to test.
As noted a few posts up, a review of 21 test optional colleges found that test optional enrollees at those colleges had lower EFC than test submitter enrollees at all 21 of the colleges. The group income range with the largest difference between rate of test optional and test submitter was low income kids, whose EFC was <25% of cost. Low income enrollees were significantly more likely to apply test optional, and high income enrollees were significantly more likely to be test submitters.
I only skimmed through the paper on which the article quote is based. They appear to be comparing average Pell grant rate for test optional colleges to the average for test submitter colleges, rather than looking at how Pell grant rate changed at a particular college before and after going test optional. This isn’t the same question.
I think what everyone seems to be missing is that a student is not just GPA and test score. A student has ample opportunity to flesh out their app showing their ECs, leadership, awards, personal statement, supplemental essays that show fit, teacher recommendations. It’s not like a student without a test score is missing half of their app. I would think kids who stand out in every other way but are missing a score won’t be at a huge disadvantage but they WILL have to have all of the other pieces that show favorably compared to the applicants with scores.
I agree with @kanfly. Not arguing that a one year moratorium on testing might be in order. What I fear is that a one year hiatus will become a pretext to get rid of standardized testing beyond this unusual situation, and there will be those who benefit (and those who will be penalized) from this new test optional landscape. If you are middle class or lower middle class and not an URM, and not a hooked candidate in some way, the change to TO will make getting into elite colleges even more of a challenge.
"I think what everyone seems to be missing is that a student is not just GPA and test score. "
I think most people actually get that. The issue this year is that if you don’t have a test score, you may not be disadvantaged but the other applicants that submit a test score will have an advantage, even if it’s slight. Especially if the applicants are from the same high school. Students that study for the PSAT typically take the SAT at the same time in fall of jr year, since studying for the psat can be applied to the sat. If they get NMSF and get a confirming score (say 34 or 1500), they’re in really good shape vs the applicant with out a score. Even if they don’t get NMSF but say commendation, I think they’ll have a leg up.
@theloniusmonk I kind of agree with that but it still depends on the whole app and the college one is talking about. Any given college looking at two students from the same school won’t be looking at identical transcripts, recs, ECs etc. One student could stand out in that way and still be the one without a test score. What if the one with the score was a kid who was just nose to the grindstone and wasn’t involved much at school? Had eh teacher recs? And then the other one is class president and has other stand out ECs and the recs say he’s an outstanding and curious student who is helpful to his classmates and the rec has wonderful stories showing those qualities? Student without the score could be the one chosen. Or maybe they are both admitted.
At elite colleges, high SAT/ACT scores are not really a benefit, because then you would just be joining the crowd, but low SAT/ACT scores are a detriment. Since higher SES applicants tend to have more advantages in getting high SAT/ACT scores, it is likely that those who do not submit SAT/ACT scores under test-optional tend to be lower SES than those who do. And, on an individual level, someone with a high SAT/ACT score can still submit it under test-optional.
@ucbalumnus
Up until this year, a high SAT/ACT was a prerequisite for the majority of candidates at many elite colleges. Remove this barrier, and there will be more applicants to elite colleges who, in the past, would not have been competitive applicants.
If slots are taken by these same low-scoring applicants at elite colleges, there are fewer slots available for the high scoring applicants. The high scoring middle and lower middle class non-hooked kids are therefore competing for fewer seats in a freshman class.
On a positive note, that means these high-testing applicants will end up at lower ranked colleges, which, over time, will make these currently lower ranked colleges equals, or even exceed, those colleges that head down the test optional route.
I really don’t get this. A student is not just a test score. Maybe you are talking about kids with high test scores who have lower GPAs or not as competitive ECs, recs, etc., so you think the test score boosts their app. Fair enough, but top schools want kids with all of the above. So, a student with a strong overall app with a strong test score is a strong applicant and, this year, a student with a strong overall app without a test score is a strong applicant.
Those without test scores are “taking spots away from those with high test scores” but those with high test scores just need to present a strong overall app. This is what holistic admissions means. If a student is hoping a test score is the thing that will help an AO overlook the rest of the app, then that could be a problem this year.
I expect the extracurricular profile presented by most applicants to selective colleges is quite similar-there are after all 40k class presidents, and student newspaper editors, and hundreds of thousands of school club and sports leaders. Absent verified state or national recognition ( not uncommon in the Ivies), such activities are unlikely to be a deciding factor among applicants.
A college admissions official told me that few reference letters are meaningfully different, and when they are, it can reflect the resources of the school more than the specific applicant. An extraordinary letter can make a difference, but it is rare to know how to write one.
@roycroftmom hm. Well, maybe the AOs will lean towards high schools they know and that will be to the advantage of students from those schools? Just another way AOs can make a decision. Student body president from school X where the college has accepted kids in the past versus president from a school they don’t have a history with?
This application season is going to be interesting. I wonder if there will be a general increase in acceptance rates across the board because schools will be more unsure of yield?
Yes, I think acceptance rates will go up due to uncertainty in yield and fewer students applying due to the economy. Students from known schools should have an advantage.
Responding to @homerdog, who wrote: "Those without test scores are 'taking spots away from those with high test scores' but those with high test scores just need to present a strong overall app. This is what holistic admissions means. If a student is hoping a test score is the thing that will help an AO overlook the rest of the app, then that could be a problem this year.
Let me make this more concrete.
Example: Four non-URM candidates are applying to elite, need aware colleges. All four are class presidents, played varsity sports, have excellent EC overall, strong recs, wrote compelling essays, and have 4.0 GPAs while taking AP classes. (The reality is that elite colleges get many very similar candidates).
Student A: wealthy full-pay and has test scores below the 25% for college X
Student B: middle class and has test scores below the 25% for college X
Student C: lower middle class and has test scores below the 25% for college X
Student D is lower middle class and has test scores above 75% for college X
Whose odds for acceptance increased the most when a college goes TO? Student A.
Who previously had a fighting chance at college X when it required testing, but now with the change to TO, their odds went down? Student D.
Who had a low chance under both TO and test mandatory holistic admissions unless they had a significant hook? Students B and C.
Please read “The Price of Admissions” by Pulitzer Prize winning WSJ writer Daniel Golden. It will be eye opening.
Per Golden: "Today the prospects for these unconnected applicants, who are predominantly middle-class whites and Asian-Americans, are even bleaker. The poor shmucks have to walk on water—during a tsunami. Saracino, now a higher education consultant, switched metaphors in a recent conversation. “The pie isn’t getting any bigger, but the pieces all want to grow a little bit,” he said. “It will come at the cost of the everyday kid.”
What about schools that don’t accept or consider recommendations like UF/FSU Will it be harder without a score?
@NearlyDone2024 you are assuming colleges are need aware in your assessment. Do you all really believe that need blind doesn’t mean need blind? I still struggle with that. How does an AO know one is “middle class” versus “wealthy and full pay”. I think lower middle class might be easier to sniff out on an app looking at the high school or ECs or maybe the essays.
My SIL is decidedly middle class. Has a budget for college. We are full pay. I don’t think her kids’ apps would put their socio-economic standing in a different pile than ours. So, without an AO being in touch with the financial aid office, he could assume they are full pay. Or maybe assume we are not full pay. Even in our high school, many many families have the money to be full pay but won’t pay it and don’t know enough to not apply to colleges that don’t have merit or where merit is really hard to get. Those kids will look full pay but then won’t attend once they see they don’t get any aid.
I think maybe the point I agree with is that low income kids with high scores who would normally get some amazing opportunities will be less likely to get those offers this year if they cannot test. That is sad and I’m not sure I see a way around that especially since they are unlikely to have guidance counselors to advocate for them. What about Questbridge? I wonder how they will operate with so many kids not taking a test.
I feel like we are getting very close to knowing if these fall tests are going to happen. Next up is the August SAT. It’s towards the end of Aug. Guessing we should know if that’s a go in about a month. It will likely be dependent on whether a high school goes back in person. For those of us with kids looking to take that test, we might want to review the test locations near us and then keep an ear out for whether they are returning to school.
I think they will have to change their requirements to add another data point like recommendations or an extended essay.
RE: "@NearlyDone2024 you are assuming colleges are need aware in your assessment. Do you all really believe that need blind doesn’t mean need blind? I still struggle with that. How does an AO know one is “middle class” versus “wealthy and full pay”. I think lower middle class might be easier to sniff out on an app looking at the high school or ECs or maybe the essays."
There are very, very few colleges that are truly need blind. I have seen this fleshed out in other posts.
www.■■■■■■■■ (dot com) /the-ivy-coach-blog/college-admissions/2-reasons-need-blind-admissions-farce/
“If colleges were truly need blind, then why is there a question on just about every applicant’s supplement asking if the student needs financial aid — yes or no?”
Among the vast majority that are explicitly need aware, including many top 50 USN&WR ranked colleges, it is very easy for colleges to know the financial status of applicants. Applicants submit this information directly.
I’m not sure why there is so much reticence to accept this reality. Maybe we all want to believe our children were accepted purely on their own merits without understanding how the “sausage is made”, as the saying goes.
@NearlyDone2024 is right, most colleges are need aware, e.g. Wesleyan
I also agree that COVID is exacerbating the economic inequality in our country, and this effect on colleges, which went test optional due to COVID, is but one example of many.
Colleges should be nervous about the degree of preparation many applicants will have this year, particularly with many public schools having severely curtailed plans. Students will graduate having basically missed 1.5 years of high school, and likely will show up less prepared for college and more likely to fail out. The wealthiest should be able to avoid this risk as the most elite prep schools will ensure their students are educated somehow, and parents can and will pay for private tutors.
“Whose odds for acceptance increased the most when a college goes TO? Student A.”
I see what you’re saying but I actually don’t think A and D are competing for the same slot because they’re in different income classes, esp if D is a Pell Grant eligible.
“my SIL is decidedly middle class. Has a budget for college. We are full pay. I don’t think her kids’ apps would put their socio-economic standing in a different pile than ours. So, without an AO being in touch with the financial aid office, he could assume they are full pay.”
AOs know or can guess pretty well the wealth of most applicants. One would be the zipcode, second parents education and jobs, third high school, fourth ECs. In fact they know so well that they will put test scores in context, so for IL, if you’re from Lake Forest, unhooked, you’re expected have higher scores, especially if the parents are college graduates. If you’re from Cenrteville, well expectations are not as high.
"I think they will have to change their requirements to add another data point like recommendations or an extended essay. "
Way too may students for that. CSUs use the same formula, only gpa and test scores, they won’t be able to read that many essays or recommendations for sure.