Wow. I’ve noticed at my last two clients (so last 3 years) that in general the women are working longer hours than the men are, and carrying more of the workload. It wasn’t a medical environment, but not sure that matters.
What an ass. I hope he loses all his female patients as well as any male patients that consider themselves supporters of women. His comments aren’t even worth discussion beyond that, IMO, because it’s ridiculous.
While the doctor was stupid for how he said this publicly, this is very much a worthy topic for study, assuming it hasn’t already been done.
If women doctors are underpaid relative to their production, every person who supports equality should be up in arms about it. If they are getting the same per unit of production, that is also very useful, because that means that women doctors are working less on average. Is that by choice, or because the work environment does not meet their needs? If the latter, can the work environment be adjusted?
So a number of important questions that can only be solved by discussing and studying the problem.
Every stupid thing someone says doesn’t necessarily deserve to be studied. Although I’d bet anything, based on many years of observation as a consultant with hundreds of people at over a dozen companies, that women would be shown as harder working (and this even more deserving of pay equity). I know who the workhorses are — I seek them out for my projects.
We’ve been looking into pay inequality for decades. It’s attitudes like his that often hold progress back. Many don’t care, cling to old fashioned stereotypes.
Yes, women bring admirable skills and work ethic to the table.
And of the med students I know (plenty,) the women are no slouches, not in the least.
You don’t think that the reason that women doctors get paid less doesn’t need to be studied? This is a great way to keep every incorrect conclusion floating around due to lack of an authoritative rebuttal.
@hebegebe the stupid thing this doctor said wasn’t simply that women doctors get paid less, and yes that should be and has been studied. The stupid thing he said was “Female physicians do not work as hard and do not see as many patients as male physicians. This is because they choose to, or they simply don’t want to be rushed, or they don’t want to work the long hours." This appears to be the snarky personal opinion of one internal medicine doctor. I don’t see a link to his numerous peer reviewed publications on the extensive research he has done showing that women “simply don’t want to be rushed” or “don’t want to work the long hours”. So I agree with the post above, his comment isn’t worthy of discussion, because it lends legitimacy to his statements. Read the end of the article for the blowback from some female physicians. Full disclosure, I’m the mom of a female M4 who works her tail off, and who will do the same as an MD.
I have noticed that female doctors spend more time with each patient, so it may be MEASURABLE, to compare how long female doctors spend with patients versus male doctors. Insurance driven medical practices in Colorado, often have fired female doctors for this very reason, that they spend more time with patients. I think we should measure this, and expose the truth about doctors, that perhaps-- they rush more if they are men,(!!!) and don’t take good care of patients, as female doctors tend to. I pick a female doctor 100% of the time, for this reason, in Colorado! Also, I know female urologists who were kicked out of urology practices for NOT doing unnecessary surgeries! Really, women care more about patients, so they do LESS surgery and make less money. Thats my experience as a patient.
Sorry if this sounds sexist, but its measurable and we need to measure it NOW! Get to the truth about this whole issue as it affects me, the patient.
One flaw about how doctors are compensated is that it is barely related to merit. Admission to medical school is of course tied to merit, and certainly finishing medical school shows merit, but afterwards we treat all doctors as if they are the same in terms of quality. The current process of paying doctors by procedure, and not by quality of patient care, will incent some doctors to push production over patient health.
So if female doctors are spending the same hours as men but are getting paid less because of more concern shown for the patient, I am all for measuring this as well.
Scratching one doctor off my list of those I’m willing to see if I end up needing one in Plano…
I prefer doctors who take more time and don’t rush. I prefer if they aren’t overworked as I know what that does to any human in any job mentally. Rushing and longer hours rarely produce positive things. I want them to be paid MORE, not less because they are more likely to be right and make the patient feel more at ease as if they are understood. I don’t give a hoot about gender.
I wish we could have every doctor give their thoughts and actual practice on some of these things. For me, it would be right there among reviews and experience for things I consider when choosing someone to see.
One provision of the ACA-- a provision that now has now been revoked–tied patient outcomes to reimbursement for Medicaid/Medicare patients. Doctors/clinics/hospitals were required to track patients, do follow ups to see how they we’re faring in measurable terms. Hospitals/doctors who had patients readmitted to the hospital for a hospital-caused infection, for example, were not paid for the return hospital admission. Primary care doctors whose patients stopped smoking or showed a long term reduction of risk factors like high blood pressure, obesity or blood sugar levels received bonuses.
Some research about patient outcomes and doctor-patient communications–
[Comparison of Hospital Mortality and Readmission Rates for Medicare Patients Treated by Male vs Female Physicians](Outcomes of Hospitalized Medicare Beneficiaries Treated by Male vs Female Physicians)
[Women survive heart attacks better with women doctors](Women survive heart attacks better with women doctors -- ScienceDaily)
[Physician gender is associated with the quality of type 2 diabetes care.](Physician gender is associated with the quality of type 2 diabetes care - PubMed)
[Influence of gender of physicians and patients on guideline-recommended treatment of chronic heart failure in a cross-sectional study.](Influence of gender of physicians and patients on guideline-recommended treatment of chronic heart failure in a cross-sectional study - PubMed)
[Prevention advice rates of women and men physicians.](Prevention advice rates of women and men physicians - PubMed)
[Physician Gender Effects in Medical Communication](https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/195191)
Speaking as the mother of PGY4 who is in the job market–D1 was offered a 20% lower starting salary for the exact SAME job at the SAME hospital than one of her male co-residents from her program was offered. Her signing bonus are also half of what her male co-resident was offered. (His bonus came in the form loan repayment. Since D1 has paid off her loans already, she asked for cash compensation and was offered significantly lower amount.)
The hiring office told her offer was non-negotiable. So she walked…
This is a common perception not only in medical field. In IT, I’ve heard from people that men work longer hours, and stay at work until late at night, while women go home to their kids in the evening. While this might be true on average, I very much doubt that longer hours equal better work quality.
@WayOutWestMom The things you posted about in #13 make me seethe. I wish she could somehow go public with that info, but fully understand why she can’t (or doesn’t). I’m glad she walked. I hope she told them why.
It’s like gomerblog was prescient (I can’t find the date on the page but I 100% know it was posted before this became a story):
http://gomerblog.com/2018/08/advice-for-new-female-doctors/
Of course, they have also already commented on this story:
http://gomerblog.com/2018/09/female-physicians-pay-gap/?print=print
*note for those who don’t know: “GomerBlog” is medicine’s version of “The Onion.”
Re: @WayOutWestMom’s example. Does the medical school know about it/care? That sounds egregious.
Ditto and tritto!
@doschicos
It’s been 3.5 years since D1 graduated from med school–why would her med school care? Their job ended once she walked across the stage at graduation.
Does her residency program care? No, it’s not their job to police how other institutions/corporate healthcare management companies run their shops.
Young physicians are told over and over that it’s unprofessional and gauche to discuss salaries. If D1 hadn’t happened to have a co-resident who had also applied to work at the same program and she hadn’t asked him about his offer, she would never have known she was getting shortchanged.
I am in the medical profession. There is partial truth to what Plano doc is saying.
Physicians have been relegated to FTE equivalents. I have seen equal pay because you are full FTE or not. Women in medicine are like gold to administrators for reasons mentioned above. However, administrators are happy to be FLEXIBLE with female physician schedules to accommodate their home life. I have seen many female physicians choose to be 0.8 FTE and thereby choosing quality of life over money.
To flat out pay females less for same work, I have never seen that and is very wrong.