<p>DD, a junior, had her start-the-college search meeting with her GC this week. All year long, as Dad firmly bit his lip so hard that it bled, D has said things like "I'm not taking any math or science next year; and the AP English teacher isn't great, so I'm not taking that either." She has also crossed colleges off her list for reasons like, "I didn't like the way that road separated some of the buildings," or "The Princeton Guide says that it's preppy" (in a portion of the entry that was probably last revised when she was still playing with Cabbage Patch dolls).</p>
<p>After the meeting with her GC, D reports: "Mrs. T said I should take Calculus and AP English and that I should have at least 6-10 colleges that I want to apply to, I guess I need to keep more options open." The GC might as well have descended from a mountain and handed this advice to her etched on stone tablets. </p>
<p>All I can say is "Thank you, Mrs. T." and "Please tell me I'm not the only one with a 17-year old like this."</p>
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<p>She has also crossed colleges off her list for reasons like, "I didn't like the way that road separated some of the buildings>></p>
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<p>Just forewarned that kids cross colleges off their list for reasons like the above...and even (what appear to the adults) sillier reasons. Glad to hear your GC was some help. It's nice to hear a positive comment about a GC someplace.</p>
<p>In addition to guidance counselors (who can be very valuable), thank God for our State U requiring 4 years of English to get into any of it's colleges.</p>
<p>S is also a junior and had decided on his own that he wasn't taking an English class next year. Mama pulled up the State U website with requirements for prospective freshmen, and low and behold, there it was - 4 years of English required!! Yea! So he's signed up for English 4 next year. Victory. And in 2 more years State U will require 4 years of math as well at the Algebra I level and higher, which won't affect my kids but I think it's a great step in the right direction overall.</p>
<p>He also signed up for AP Biology (his true interest) and AP Calculus (we have a wonderful teacher and he CAN do the work, he's just a little more interested in taking it easy than we would like to see).</p>
<p>Thumper1 is right, though. Kids do make their choices sometimes based on the particular "feel" of a place - nothing concrete. D did that last year when looking at colleges, and it turned out her instincts were right on and she found the right "fit" for her.</p>
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<p>our State U requiring 4 years of English to get into any of it's colleges.>></p>
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<p>Not wishing to highjack this thread, but I found this comment interesting. Our state requires ALL students to have four years of English to graduate from high school. I thought that was a requirement everywhere...</p>
<p>There was a discussion about this a while back on another thread. At the time, we talked about how many universities (such as the Ivies, and some state schools) "recommended" 4 years of English, but didn't require it. It was a surprise to me too, because CU and CSU have always required 4 years of English. For my kids, NOT taking 4 years of English, Science, and Math just wasn't an option (Mom and Dad are academic tyrants, you see.)</p>
<p>Yes, our state requires four years of English to graduate from high school. S had to double up on English in order to graduate early. I think private universities recommend but do not require specific graduation criteria in order to be as flexible as possible.</p>
<p>For example, the fourth English class S took was not AP. Would he have been barred from HYP for not taking that non-AP class in addition to the AP-English class?</p>
<p>My junior daughter has had a different guidance counselor each year- ( they were each head of the dept- but they left)- this year she has one that is much more difficult to talk to , however, my D also said she was going to take stat instead of precalc( which was fine- because of the instructors) but she decided after talking to the head of math dept that she would take precalc</p>
<p>State requirements vary. Much depends on state funding- if the state doesn't require say 4 years of math,science, english and history, then it is easier not to fund it.
Our state requires for graduation 19 credits
3 yrs of english-
2 of math,
2 yrs of science including one year of a lab class, 2 & 1/2 years of social studies,
1 yr in the arts,
2 years of health and fitness( which means 1 semester of health and the rest PE classes- which you can have waived for school sports), & 5 & 1/2 years of electives.</p>
<p>Without waiving the PE credits, it is pretty difficult to take 3 years of language, let alone any electives :(
My daughter has opted out of taking a 4th year of Spanish, but since most of this year she had substitutes, it would make taking AP Spanish fairly strenuous to go along with her other senior year classes unfortunately</p>
<p>Although her GPA is 3.40 she is barely hanging on to the top 50%, a disadvantage I suppose to attending a school that has more AP classes than other public schools in the state, and attracts the top students in the area, even if AP isn't weighted
( sigh)
Not that I am complaining- but it is interesting that last year, with same GPA, she was in the top 25%-
I am suspecting that some, who are more cognizant of %, are pressuring both students and teachers to raise the grades
I don't know if teachers are that mallable- but its probably that some teachers are more open to "extra projects"- which
for my own daughter we have brought up, regarding her learning disabilties, but I don't think they are appropriate for kids without disabilties, because its unlikely profs will allow them to change their grades and hand things in late the way some high school teachers do.</p>
<p>I suspect MarathonMan's daughter was simply considering the option of taking regular English instead of AP English. I never heard of being able to take fewer than four years of English in high school.</p>
<p>MarathonMan...great story. It isn't too surprising. As most of us, including you, are aware....it is hard to "work" with your own child. Advice from mom or dad is taken in a different light than from a third party. As someone who works as a college counselor, I feel like students will listen to me as there is no emotional attachment. If I give a message that the parent may have tried all along, the kid might listen to me as they don't take it personally. So, I am glad to hear that your GC gave a similar message to your kid that you tried to give but it took on more meaning or validity if the GC gave it, LOL. </p>
<p>By the way, as WE all know, a road through campus isn't gonna be a factor they care diddly about as far as the experience of attending if the school fits in other ways. Very few schools line up in every which way for a student. Encourage your D to list pros/cons for each school and pick schools with more pros than cons but realize there might be some cons for any school. "Doesn't have the programs I really want" is different than "a road cuts through campus!", LOL. Such a list on paper might make that a bit clear :D </p>
<p>Well, believe it or not, a road running through campus and too many chain link fences got one school dropped from my son's list. He started with 20 and needed to eliminate some anyway. It was a gut feeling, I think, about cohesiveness, that may not have been so silly. I think it was a school where lots of kids ran off on the weekends to NYC and the road and fence thing was like a visual representation of maybe a less socially engaged (with each other as a community) student body. When I asked the tour guide if it was a friendly school, she asked me what I meant.</p>
<p>Anyway, yes, thank god or godess for good GC's! We've got one too.</p>
<p>It is frustrating that teenagers automatically think their parents know nothing, but they will listen to their friends or a teacher or GC. On the other hand, I can understand some concern about a road separting the campus buildings. I had an immediate negative reaction to one school where a heavily used 6 lane road and a commuter train line ran through the middle of campus. I guess it should not be a big deal, but then there are all those college brochures showing kids on the quad playing frisbee or using their laptops.</p>
<p>Roads and chainlink fences as reasons to cross a prospective school off the list? I'm afraid I can top that. My daughter dumped Colorado State University, probably one of the best schools in the country for preveterinary medicine, because there is an active railroad line that comes right through the main campus, even though it is used infrequently. A loud freight train just happened to come through the campus the day that we were there -- right in the middle of the admissions office presentation. From my daughter's perspective, that was the end of that. I feel your pain . . .</p>
<p>It was the other way at our house. My daughter used her counselor to tell me to take her to visit more schools. My thinking was why bother to visit schools unless you are accepted. We did end up visiting 6 schools out of 12 she applied to. At the end of the day, I still didn't find out anything new about those school that I didn't see on the school's website. But I guess it was to show interest and good bonding time.</p>
<p>Soozievt,
My S eliminated Williams because Route 2 cuts through campus. Mind you, my understanding is that if you stand at the side of the road, cars will screech to a halt to let students cross. Alas, it was too urban for him. :rolleyes:</p>
<p>"My thinking was why bother to visit schools unless you are accepted."</p>
<p>From my perspective, the college visits were by far THE most important step in the college selection process. Quite a few schools were eliminated from consideration due to the pervasive alcohol or drug cultures. We did not see any of this information on the college websites or in their brochures. Some were eliminated because the academic programs appeared weaker than we thought. This might be hard to access for humanities programs, but minimal science facilities can remove a school from consideration for a kid who has interests in the sciences. Some schools were stronger than we previously thought. Meeting a few faculty members will at least give some indications about how the programs function and the educational philosophies. </p>
<p>We also found that college visits can be extremely important for the admissions process. It is important to take the time to pre-schedule interviews with admissions officers and faculty members. These are often the same individuals who will be making decisions on admissions offers (and merit awards). Just visiting to show interest is not enough. </p>
<p>Finally, having a thorough knowledge is important when it comes time for your kid to make a choice among different offers. It is also valuable for parents who are concerned about value and cost and who need to make decisions about what they can afford. There is really very little time between receiving the acceptance letters and May 1. That time shrinks rapidly if there are also requests for reconsideration of financial offers.</p>
<p>momof3sons, I have to chuckle at one teen's perception of Williams being too "urban"! :D (I've been there....sister-in-law had her wedding on campus)</p>
<p>Just goes to show you, visits are very important! I happen to think they are extremely important in finding the right matches and figuring out what you like or not about colleges. You can only explore a college just so much online and in a brochure. It is not the same as exploring the atmosphere, setting, meeting faculty and students, going to classes, meeting with heads of your extracurricular interest areas, info. sessions, tours, etc. </p>
<p>Speaking of tours, my D called today as she had applied to be a tour guide at her college which she says is very hard to get selected for in terms of how many apply and how many are chosen. She was chosen and is training today for it. I can picture her doing it as she is very enthusiastic about her school and knows how helpful it was to her to meet students on campus on her visits.</p>
<p>soozievt-- my son is a tour guide and it's been a great chance for him to see how students and parents interact and also to speak publicly while walking backwards! I hope you get to ( discretely and with her permission) join one of her tours.</p>
<p>Short of those colleges that truly are on the warpath to eliminate the drugs and alcohol, mainly religious schools, there seemed to be such a culture where ever. </p>
<p>Visiting colleges with a teen can be a wonderful experience, or...otherwise. I swear some kids just take a breath and a squint, if that, when they step out of the car, and make a decision on the spot about the atmosphere. Doesn't give the parents much confidence in their decision making criteria. The wrong tour guide, an inclement day, or just a bad visit can sometimes make the wrong impression when the school might well be a good fit and a great experience for the kid. </p>
<p>I wasn't thrilled with my second son's assessment process during the initial visits, but when push came to shove, he surprised me with his agenda for what he wanted out of a college. Though it would not have been my pick, he had specific and solid reasons outside of the "feel" of the school for his selection. But going on the visits were maddening. Likewise for my older son.</p>