<p>We were- I didn't remember that he said that. Thanks!</p>
<p>Let me rephrase my last post, it came off as insensitive. I suppose it is a good thing that I have not received a letter, because they all seem to be rejections.</p>
<p>Lets just keep our fingers crossed!</p>
<p>Is deferred a nice way to state rejection? Or do students actually get letters saying they are being deferred AND considered on a waiting list for those not accepting positions? Just curious-</p>
<p>Deferred and Waitlist are TWO DIFFERENT things and were discussed on this forum not too long ago, though I don't know exactly where anymore. </p>
<p>If you apply some place Early Decision or Early Action, a school either accepts, rejects, or defers until the Regular Decision applicant pool has also been reviewed and some who are deferred are eventually admitted. Those deferrals would normally get a letter from college admissions when all the ED and EA applicants are informed of the decisions (for some schools this can be Dec.). </p>
<p>However, in terms of BFA program auditions, some schools notify those who audition on a rolling basis....some get admitted, some rejected and some are held onto until they complete all auditions and then a decision is rendered. That makes sense because there are so few slots and they have yet to see all the auditionees. Often in that case, those they are holding onto may not receive any official deferral letter (as it wasn't ED or EA type of appilcation that renders an earlier decision) but simply do not find out the final decision until all auditions are over (often this can be in March). Some do get admitted. At some schools, however, they do not render any decisions for any applicants until March or April 1. </p>
<p>For schools that do use deferrals, it does not mean rejection and it merely is a delay of acceptance until they have viewed all the applicants. However, not all will get in that are in this holding pattern.</p>
<p>Waitlist is completely different. Waitlist status is reserved for applicants wo are neither accepted nor rejected. Applicants are assigned to the Wait Lst when final acceptance and rejection letters have gone out (ie., often in March or April). The admissions committee only goes to the wait list if those who are accepted do not end up yielding enough to enroll in the class. </p>
<p>So, deferred status in many ways is better than Waitlist. Some deferred students will be admitted. Not all schools go to the waitlist in April or May if they have enough students who have chosen to enroll. </p>
<p>Susan</p>
<p>Susan,
Thanks for explaining the difference between a deferral and being waitlisted. I was under the impression that waitlisted students were those who, for want of a better word, are "second string" acceptances. In other words, I always thought that colleges (and private secondary schools, for that matter) put on their waitlists students that they would like to admit, but who would probably do well at the school but are not as qualified as the kids they offer admission to first. (After all, if those on the waitlist are not qualified at all, why waitlist them? Why not just reject them and be done with it?) It seems to me to be a strange system. But perhaps I am still missing something here.
Lisa</p>
<p>Lisa....you are just talking now of Waitlists, the kind you can be put on in March or April, right? after all acceptances and rejection letters have gone out, I'm assuming, right? </p>
<p>I don't necessarily agree that those on the waitlist are not as qualified as those who were admitted, particularly when talking of very selective colleges. At very selective colleges, there are more qualified candidates than slots in the class. If you go to an info. session at an Ivy League school, for example, they'll be the first to tell you that they could fill the freshman class a second time with applicants that are just as good as the class they admitted. From amongst the very qualified (or good enough to be admitted), they build a class but some that did not make it into that conglomeration of class, could have gotten in, if there was room. Sometimes these kids then are on a waitlist. They are qualified to get in but there is not room. While very selective schools often don't have to go to the waitlist, they do some years, to varying degrees. The kids that get in off the waitlist were qualified enough to have been admitted and that is why they are on the waitlist, and it is not really dipping into a "second string" of candidates. I know kids in selective colleges that were admitted from a waitlist. A girl I counseled last year is now attending Bucknell, after getting off the waitlist. A friend of my D's is in the BFA in MT at CMU from their waitlist. </p>
<p>My older D was waitlisted at Princeton. They took 8% of candidates in the regular decision round. They held onto a few hundred on a waitlist and the odds of getting off it were slim but they surely had more than 8% of candidates who had what it took to be admitted but they could not take them all. They would not put someone on the waitlist if they were not qualified or worthy of being in the class because they very well might be eventually admitted if there is room. The waitlist is not numbered at most of these schools. In other words, if there is room for five more kids in the class, they don't say, "let's now go to Kid 1-5 at the top of our waitlist." Rather, they may want some more musicians, some more classics majors, or whatever slots in the class weren't filled. In a BFA program, even DoctorJohn has explained that if their soprano ingenue type doesn't take the offer of admission, they will go to who on their waitlist filled that kind of slot in their small BFA class. My younger D was what was called Priority Waitlisted at CMU for the Acting BFA. The kids on the waitlist are considered qualified for the slots because the school is willing to admit them if room opens up. Priority waitlist was something offered at CMU if you are waitlisted and they go to it first but they make you commit to attend within, if I recall, 24 hours of the call of the offer to admit you off the waitlist if a slot opens up. Because they only want approx. 10 MT and 18 Acting BFA students and their yield is high, CMU tends NOT to admit more students than they have slots and if not all take them up on the offer, they actually DO go to the Priority Waitlist. Like I said, my D's friend got in off that waitlist and is now a soph in their program. Other schools often admit more than they yield (students have mulitiple offers so not all will enroll) and based on patterns of enrollment/yield of previous years, they admit a certain number of students to yield the number they want in the class. But CMU doesn't do that and pretty much admits the number of slots they have open and if not all kids take the offer, they use the waitlist. UMich only accepts a couple kids beyond the total number of slots open because they have a high yield as well. I think CAP accepts 80 to yield 64 and this past year, I think 80 kids said "yes" and enrolled and so the class is bigger than normal. But some of these BFA programs do go to their Wait Lists, as do some other colleges. Again, I am ONLY talking now of Wait List status, not deferral status.</p>
<p>So, your point that the waitlisted kids are not as qualified and why waitlist them if they aren't going to get in....is not an accurate analysis.....they ARE as qualified but there is not room to take them all and so they are on standby if not every accepted kid takes the offer and there is still room in the class. </p>
<p>Susan</p>
<p>This is not an update, just had fallen back to page 15 and I thought I'm put it back front and center...</p>
<p>FALL 2006 Acceptances</p>
<p>("Final" means you have decided to attend that school/program):</p>
<p>"Audition Required" Acceptances (you are into the program) by student:</p>
<p>anothermomwithquestion's D- Marietta (BFA)
aspiringactress1-CCM(drama)
bearcaaat - PPU
be<em>a</em>star OCU(Drama)
broadwaycorey - PPark (MT)
chrisnoo- NYU CAP 21 (Final)
cindy013- Fordham
deegee - NYU CAP 21 Final
drum87- Cal State Fullerton
falloffstage - PPU, Millikin, Northern Kentucky University
Janenw's D - NYU CAP 21 Final
jashner's D - NYU CAP 21 Final
Jordansmom D - OCU (MT), Indiana University
Kellster - College of Charleston
Lexismom's D - OCU (drama, BA in music)
Melsmom's D - PPU (jazz dance)
Michaelsmom's S - PPU (MT-final decision)
MTpolk - OCU (drama, BA in music)
NoccaDad's D - Elon (Final)
PRFRMR20 - Emerson (MT)
Samia525 - PPU
TheaterGuy- NYU Cap 21 Final
ThespianDreams - SUNY Potsdam, Indiana University
ToTheStage- U of Colorado
Weetziebat223- NYU CAP 21 Final</p>
<p>"Audition Required" Acceptances (you are into the program) by school:</p>
<p>CCM(drama) - aspiringactress1
ELON - noccadad's d (Final), TheatreNote (theatre)
Emerson - PRFRMR20
Millikin- falloffstage
NYU CAP 21 (Final) chrisnoo, Janenws D, TheaterGuy, Weetziebat223, deegee, jashner's d
NYU Tisch (Final) - nyc<em>etoile (strasberg)
OCU - be</em>a_star (drama), Jordansmom D (MT), Lexismom's D (drama, BA in music), MTpolk (drama, BA in music), noccadad's d (drama, BA in music), TheatreNote(BA Theatre Performance, BM music)
PPU - falloffstage, Melsmoms D (jazz dance), Michaelsmoms S (MT- final),bearcaaat, Samia525, broadwaycorey (MT)</p>
<p>Waitlisted/Deferred:</p>
<p>lexismom's d - Elon
Melsmom's D - Elon
scogor's D - Elon</p>
<p>Susan, I did not express myself, or my question, very well. Of course, there are many more qualified candidates who apply to most selective schools than there are spaces. You and others here on this list have talked quite a bit about how this is a harsh reality. I also know this from talking with parents of kids (not MT kids) who have perfect everything (standardized test scores, GPAs, ECs, etc.) and yet were waitlisted at several Ivy League schools. The reality is that there are more qualified people than there are spaces. </p>
<p>However, isn't it fair to say that if a student (even an exquisitely qualified student) is waitlisted, that the college in question does consider that candidate (at this time) a tad bit less desirable (for whatever reason) than the student who was given a full admit? The reason might not be about skills; it might be about what the class they are building needs in order to give it balance. (For example, a strong character actor might be up against a strong ingenue type. If the ingenue gets in, the program needed ingenues at this point in time. Or more boys are accepted, because the program already has quite a few girls.) From what I hear, it works the same in non-MT admissions, in very selective programs. </p>
<p>I apologize sincerely if my poorly-worded post made it sound as if I was implying that kids who are waitlisted are not qualified. </p>
<p>And yes, Susan, I was talking about being waitlisted during regular admissions, and not during ED and EA.</p>
<p>If there is something I am still not "getting" about this, I count on you to set me straight! :)</p>
<p>The Always Eager to Learn NotMamaRose who is also Not An Expert on Many Things! :) :)</p>
<p>Lisa, I'm not sure how else to answer it as you were asking why don't they reject these kids rather than waitlist them, because they are less "desirable" in some way. The reason is that they "make the cut" so to speak in terms of being someone they would like in the class or is qualified for the class but there is no room but if not everyone who is offered admissions takes the offer and there are not enough students to enroll, they will go to the waitlist and find students that were deemed just as qualified but who they did not have room for and choose kids to fill those slots. They aren't considering their entire applicant pool for those open slots at that point but these standby kids who were deemed qualified and desirable enough to be in the class but there was not enough room. Like I have mentioned and you also are acknowledging, they build a class of different "types". In regular college, you need some newspaper editors, some community service leaders, some musicians, some athletes, some minorities, some from different geographical areas, some potential majors in each discipline, etc. So, some kid might be quite desirable but they have enough of that one type but then there is an opening and so that kid on standby fills that slot. For a place like CMU that auditions 1200 kids for 10 MT slots (last year may have taken 9 I think and perhaps only three girls?? maybe four??) and 18 acting slots.....well, you just know there are more than three or four girls, for example, who are desirable enough to fill those slots but they can only accept three or four.....I doubt they really think if they then take a girl off the waitlist that she is truly less qualified or desirable than the 3 original ones. There are more that they think are qualified enough or desirable than they can simply take. For instance, the girl I know at CMU, I really doubt anyone looks at her differently because she got off the waitlist....I mean there are maybe 5 girls or so in her class....I'm sure she is as desirable or talented as the other four now in her class. Now, if they had to dip lower onto a waitlist, say 28 kids deeper into it, then the level of talent might have differed...but I am convinced that the small number on that CMU waitlist were as desirable as the nine or so admitted kids in the first place. </p>
<p>As you know, a candidate is not "competing" for all nine slots in the class. Let's say you are a girl, comedic type, powerful voice, dark hair. They are taking 5 boys, 4 girls. Say they take two soprano ingenues, one belter type, one character actress, and the rest are boys. The girl I gave as an example, doesn't get the one slot allocated for her type in that grouping. But the girl who got the nod declines the offer. You don't think the girl they then pluck from the waitlist is truly much less desirable? I don't think there is much difference. There is more than one really qualfied/talented/desirable candidate for that slot...they could only choose one but they hardly dislike a handful of others waiting in line that they deemed desirable enough to make the standby waitlist. </p>
<p>Clearly there are many very desirable candidates. Many adcoms will tell you at the most selective places that they truly could fill that class a second time and have it be JUST AS GOOD as the first group. When you are accepting 5% of candidates, there is an element of a crapshoot if you make that final cut because the next 5% of so are truly as worthy of a slot in the class...the adcoms will tell you so. As you know, there are MANY kids who got into the top schools in the land but were rejected at some other just as top school.....then some other kid got into that second school but not that first one.....at that level, there is some chance involved once you have what it takes.</p>
<p>At this level of selectivity, there is not THAT much difference between the top ten kids out of hundreds and hundreds and the next ten kids. That would be like saying...my kid was valedictorian and do I really believe she is a more desirable or more qualified student than the number two kid in her graduating class? No, the difference is so negligable to even note. But the difference between number one and number 30? Yes, then I could see your point. </p>
<p>A school creates a longer waitlist than needed in part, because they will go to someone on the waitlist that fits a need/slot in the class.....so if not enough of a certain type enroll, they want to find someone off the waitlist that fits that type/slot, so not every kid on the waitlist is eligible, so to speak, for whichever openings develop in the class. A school should not have an overly long waitlist, ideally. Also, a school has to have a long enough waitlist because not every kid who gets a nod off the waitlist will accept the offer because they are admitted other places. For instance, that is why CMU had two "tiers" of its waitlist. My daughter had to sign onto a "priority" list saying she'd make her deposit to enroll within 24 hours of notification. Other schools don't operate that way. They take someone from a waitlist and the person can decline the offer and so they have to go to others on the waitlist. That is why the waitlist must be deep enough for the various types they need. Anyone who is waitlisted should not count on getting in and should put their attention on the firm letters of acceptances that they have. Some schools do utilize their waitlists, but it varies from school to school and year to year.</p>
<p>Susan</p>
<p>Theatremom,</p>
<p>Are you keeping a list of acceptances? If so, my son was accepted to CCM (drama), Evansville (Drama), and defereed for UMich.</p>
<p>Congratulations actorsdad! That's terrific. As of now, where is your son leaning towards going and for what reasons?</p>
<p>Lee Byron at Ithaca said 2 days ago in the pre-audition talk that if he had the resources he could easily accept many more than he does. So I take from that he sees the group of students that are "talented enough" to accept as quite large - but that the resources for the dept are limited. </p>
<p>Actually, I remember an eloquent post from Doctorjohn last year on this very point...wonder where it is?</p>
<p>Susan,
Thanks again. What you said and your very complete explanation makes a lot of sense. I apologize for my awkwardly worded and clearly in error post, which was frankly the result of my misreading and/or misunderstanding what you said here:</p>
<p>soozievt said: <<waitlist is="" completely="" different.="" waitlist="" status="" reserved="" for="" applicants="" wo="" are="" neither="" accepted="" nor="" rejected.="" assigned="" to="" the="" wait="" lst="" when="" final="" acceptance="" and="" rejection="" letters="" have="" gone="" out="" (ie.,="" often="" in="" march="" or="" april).="" admissions="" committee="" only="" goes="" list="" if="" those="" who="" do="" not="" end="" up="" yielding="" enough="" enroll="" class.="" so,="" deferred="" many="" ways="" better="" than="" waitlist.="" some="" students="" will="" be="" admitted.="" all="" schools="" go="" april="" may="" they="" chosen="" enroll.="">></waitlist></p>
<p>Lisa again: Hearing that it is better to be deferred rather than waitlisted confused me, I guess. Thanks to your complete explanation (you are unfailingly patient!) I now understand. </p>
<p>Once again, I am very sorry if I offended anyone or their child(ren). I did not mean to do so. I just wasn't clear about the process. </p>
<p>Lisa</p>
<p>FALL 2006 Acceptances</p>
<p>("Final" means you have decided to attend that school/program):</p>
<p>"Audition Required" Acceptances (you are into the program) by student:</p>
<p>ActorsDad's Son - CCM (Drama), Evansville (Drama)
anothermomwithquestion's D- Marietta (BFA)
aspiringactress1-CCM(drama)
bearcaaat - PPU
be<em>a</em>star OCU(Drama)
broadwaycorey - PPark (MT)
chrisnoo- NYU CAP 21 (Final)
cindy013- Fordham
deegee - NYU CAP 21 Final
drum87- Cal State Fullerton
falloffstage - PPU, Millikin, Northern Kentucky University
Janenw's D - NYU CAP 21 Final
jashner's D - NYU CAP 21 Final
Jordansmom D - OCU (MT), Indiana University
Kellster - College of Charleston
Lexismom's D - OCU (drama, BA in music)
Melsmom's D - PPU (jazz dance)
Michaelsmom's S - PPU (MT-final decision)
MTpolk - OCU (drama, BA in music)
NoccaDad's D - Elon (Final)
PRFRMR20 - Emerson (MT)
Samia525 - PPU
TheaterGuy- NYU Cap 21 Final
ThespianDreams - SUNY Potsdam, Indiana University
ToTheStage- U of Colorado
Weetziebat223- NYU CAP 21 Final</p>
<p>"Audition Required" Acceptances (you are into the program) by school:</p>
<p>CCM(drama) - aspiringactress1, ActorsDad's S
ELON - noccadad's d (Final), TheatreNote (theatre)
Emerson - PRFRMR20
Evansville (drama) - ActorsDad's S
Millikin- falloffstage
NYU CAP 21 (Final) chrisnoo, Janenws D, TheaterGuy, Weetziebat223, deegee, jashner's d
NYU Tisch (Final) - nyc<em>etoile (strasberg)
OCU - be</em>a_star (drama), Jordansmom D (MT), Lexismom's D (drama, BA in music), MTpolk (drama, BA in music), noccadad's d (drama, BA in music), TheatreNote(BA Theatre Performance, BM music)
PPU - falloffstage, Melsmoms D (jazz dance), Michaelsmoms S (MT- final),bearcaaat, Samia525, broadwaycorey (MT)</p>
<p>Waitlisted/Deferred:</p>
<p>ActorsDad's S - UMich
lexismom's d - Elon
Melsmom's D - Elon
scogor's D - Elon</p>
<p>Congrats again Actorsdad! Although a few people seem to have taken on the job of "refreshing" the list when necessary (some extra talented ones in color no less....... :) ), anyone can add their info by just copying the existing list, pasting it into a reply post and adding their info. Try it, you'll like it!</p>
<p>Theat-er-mom (with an 'ER' not an 'RE' - there's a new poster who has chosen Theat-re-mom as her screen name)</p>
<p>Lisa...now, now, don't be so hard on yourself! You only have a sophomore in HS!!! :D We all pick this stuff up as we go along...that's why you're HERE! </p>
<p>What I meant that deferred was a bit better than waitlist...was more to do with the circumstances of each kind of "status" or situation, not in terms of being deferred means more qualified than a waitlisted candidate at all. </p>
<p>What I mean is that if you are deferred, then no clear cut decision has been made yet about your admissions.....you are still in the running so to speak. But you CAN be rejected in March/April! This indeed happened to each of my kids for one school. Waitlist is better in terms of the actual OUTCOME in a way, though. It is kinda..."you're qualified to be admitted, we're interested, we'll see if we have room if not enough kids enroll who got the full acceptance." It is an admissions' Twilight Zone. In the very end, saying you got Waitlisted is a better result than deferred and eventually rejected. Waitlisted kids are not rejected but are on standby. So, in terms of final results, a waitlist kinda "trumps" a deferred but eventually rejected in April outcome. </p>
<p>But what I meant in the original post was that getting deferred was better in terms of still being in the running..... at least until April! I meant it more in terms of a chances thing or situation. Deferred kids sometimes ARE admitted. Waitlist kids are too but often at a lower percentage of odds of getting off the waitlist. But in terms of final outcome, not that it truly matters if you can't go anyway, a waitlist decision is sorta a better result than a deferral that ended with a rejection. </p>
<p>That might have confused ya further but I meant it more for clarification as to my point about which was "better". So at this time of year, my kids each had one deferral.....kinda meant "still could happen". Each of them had that one deferral end up with a rejection. But each got one waitlist in April. In the very end, the waitlist result is a better result than the deferal than rejected result, the way it often is viewed. Waitlist is not a rejection.....it is sorta like "you were qualified to be admitted but are on standby if room exists" type of thing.</p>
<p>Susan</p>
<p>FALL 2006 Acceptances</p>
<p>("Final" means you have decided to attend that school/program):</p>
<p>"Audition Required" Acceptances (you are into the program) by student:</p>
<p>ActorsDad's Son - CCM (Drama), Evansville (Drama)
anothermomwithquestion's D- Marietta (BFA)
aspiringactress1-CCM(drama)
bearcaaat - PPU
be<em>a</em>star OCU(Drama)
broadwaycorey - PPark (MT)
chrisnoo- NYU CAP 21 (Final)
cindy013- Fordham
deegee - NYU CAP 21 Final
drum87- Cal State Fullerton
falloffstage - PPU, Millikin, Northern Kentucky University
Janenw's D - NYU CAP 21 Final
jashner's D - NYU CAP 21 Final
Jordansmom D - OCU (MT), Indiana University
Kellster - College of Charleston
Lexismom's D - OCU (drama, BA in music)
lynnm's D -
PPU - MT
Melsmom's D - PPU (jazz dance)
Michaelsmom's S - PPU (MT-final decision)
MTpolk - OCU (drama, BA in music)
NoccaDad's D - Elon (Final)
PRFRMR20 - Emerson (MT)
Samia525 - PPU
TheaterGuy- NYU Cap 21 Final
ThespianDreams - SUNY Potsdam, Indiana University
ToTheStage- U of Colorado
Weetziebat223- NYU CAP 21 Final
"Audition Required" Acceptances (you are into the program) by school:
CCM(drama) - aspiringactress1, ActorsDad's S
ELON - noccadad's d (Final), TheatreNote (theatre)
Emerson - PRFRMR20
Evansville (drama) - ActorsDad's S
Millikin- falloffstage
NYU CAP 21 (Final) chrisnoo, Janenws D, TheaterGuy, Weetziebat223, deegee, jashner's d
NYU Tisch (Final) - nycetoile (strasberg)
OCU - bea_star (drama), Jordansmom D (MT), Lexismom's D (drama, BA in music), MTpolk (drama, BA in music), noccadad's d (drama, BA in music), TheatreNote(BA Theatre Performance, BM music)
PPU - falloffstage, Melsmoms D (jazz dance), Michaelsmoms S (MT- final),bearcaaat, Samia525, broadwaycorey (MT),
lynnm's D (MT)
</p>
<p>Waitlisted/Deferred:</p>
<p>ActorsDad's S - UMich
lexismom's d - Elon
Melsmom's D - Elon
scogor's D - Elon</p>
<p>Hmm... I thought ED meant you heard yes or no right away, no deferrals. Am I wrong? I don't know of anyone who applied ED who got deferred.</p>
<p>RossJi....perhaps that is true at Tisch but that is not the case at universities and colleges in total. At many many schools, you can apply ED, and the result is either accept, deny, or defer. Those who are deferred are reviewed amongst the larger RD applicant pool and their decisions are rendered in that round, often around April 1. This is true, for example, at most every selective school, including Ivy League schools.</p>
<p>So I guess Early Decision is a misnomer, for those schools. Very confusing!</p>
<p>To Actorsdad's:</p>
<p>when was your sons audition? I am just curious becasue I am trying to see if anyone from the Jan 13th audition has heard anything yet... THANKS</p>
<p>-Zal</p>