I did see the Blue Square PSA on MSNBC today. Very nice, very short (10 seconds?) I would not have noticed the Blue Square part of it if not for this thread.
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thatâs nice - but they need it on fox!!!
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As we get ready to celebrate Passover (and yes we remember the history of the Jews as slaves in Egypt) one can hope that if even one person has become enlightened and aware of the increased antisemitic sentiment in this country and elsewhere and hopefully the need to educate others, then itâs a good start.
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Would you also advocate against people wishing death upon Trump, and the potential for that type of rhetoric to turn into violence?
I donât wish death but I do wish prison. I mean he tried to steal democracy. And he almost did. He might be going on trial for - well we will find out today - but Iâm not sure why treason never came up. I voted for him in â16 but his crime against his own country far outweighs all his hateful rhetoric.
You are trying to justify spewing anti semitic behavior btw. It is not justifiable.
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I think calling out violent rhetoric is EVERYONEâs responsibility, regardless of the who/what/when. If we are going to maintain our democracy, that means obeying the rule of law.
Iâm sure then that you are an advocate for anyone getting a congressional subpoena to comply- thatâs part of the rule of law. Iâm sure then that you support an end to claims that Anthony Fauci should be lynched, that Alvin Bragg should be clobbered with a baseball bat, or that we should âlock someone upâ without due process and a trial.
Yes, I advocate against people wishing death upon Trump. The place for judgement is in a court of law, not on the street. Sadly, the folks trying to incite a riot against Alvin Bragg to do not agree with my POV.
The Constitution has more than just the right to bear arms in it. Worth a read!
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I havenât said or done anything to warrant your continual projections of awful things onto me. Referring to blacks as apes, advocating violence toward Fauci, Bragg, etc. Iâm not some reprobate that youâve seen on cable news. Itâs offensive and very hurtful.
Initially chose to ignore this implication (sound a bit like an accusation) that some organization âstripped Kanye of his wealthâ and was an attempt at âthought controlâ - those comments are offensive and out of line. As was the comment that some are âintent on making themselves a victimâ . The implication that one imposes meaning where there is none in a commentâ consider instead that the comment is also ignorant and offensive. Stores putting out chanukah stuff with the passover items, thats jsut ignorance. I once was buying an outfit where the top and bottom were sold separately. They didnât have my size in the top and had to get it from another store. She said someone âjewed her downâ and bought the one in my size. She said sheâd request my size form another store. I walked out and never returned. That was offensive. But as for Kanyeâs comments, those were dangerous and frightening. He has no one but himself too blame for his comments
and the consequences. For anyone to try to imply that the foundation trying to address antisemitism âstripped him of his wealthâ or was thought controlâ is ridiculous and offensive. Please donât throw stones at other posters.
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I cast no stones intentionally. If you or anyone else have been offended by the remarks you mention, I sincerely apologize.
I am a very patient and reasonable person. A clean slate, having very little direct interaction with larger Jewish populations in my lifetime, and willing to listen and learn. I am not an ogre.
The perspectives I have given in this thread are very obvious to someone like me. It shouldnât be a heavy lift for someone in the know to discuss things I have brought up. In other words, if the posters on this thread canât teach me without resorting to condescending insults, there is no chance of convincing tens of millions of others.
[quote=âOhiBro, post:129, topic:3633613â]
having very little direct interaction with larger Jewish populations in my lifetime, and willing to listen and learn[/quote].
@OhiBro (quote isnât working correctly)
If this is sincere, then please DO listen and learn. The whataboutisms are unhelpful. Not sure who you think is saying tfg (now under arrest) should be killed, but that sentiment is unacceptable. That said, he is one person, with a boatload of security and bullet proof transportation. When someone like Kanye says what he said, or others throw out crazy conspiracy theories , or the neo nazis get attention and are overtly or covertly encouraged, many, many of us are scared. We have no security. We have no protection, we have no bullet proof vehicles. And you may think the risk is low, but that is NOT comforting to any of us. Who knows. I have been in several situations where something that might have been considered low risk happened. It is not predictable. So living with a certain degree of concern and caution is necessary. You have said that you donât know/havenât met many Jews. Well, read the room. And listen and learn. We are here.
There seems to be something wrong with the quote and the edit options. My post above starts with a quote from @OhiBro where he said âhaving little direct interaction with larger Jewish populations in my lifetime I am willing to listen and learnâ. Well, we implore you to do as you sayâ walk the walk, donât just talk the talk.
You know, I donât think so. I thought the message was aimed at a small response, not a major force.
It is the (10 second) story of a family that has its garage covered with graffiti, and a neighbor staring at a woman and child. They leave, and when they come back the neighbor, one guy, has helped them by painting the garage door.
The campaign is looking to change one person at a time, not the KKK or the entire republican party. It is, IMO, aimed at getting people who may have looked the other way to become involved.
It is a pebble dropped in the water to cause a ripple, not a boulder to cause a big splash
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Ohio, I sincerely apologize for hurting your feelings. It is not my intention.
I donât think you call Black people apes. My point was that if- as you claim- you have limited opportunities to teach people that some language is offensive- you probably have more opportunities than you think. Even in âpolite companyâ some slurs go unchallenged. Sometimes itâs out of embarrassment (grandpaâs new girlfriend), sometimes itâs a power dynamic (your boss) but most of the time, itâs because people think âhey, itâs just a jokeâ.
Google the things that have been said, written about Maxine Waters. I lost a friend of over 30 years when he reposted some of the hideous stuff on Facebook- I challenged him, and he claimed âitâs just hyperboleâ. No, it was racist and violent.
Iâm not suggesting that you spend your life seeking out haters. But when someone crosses your path- voila. I think thatâs the point of the blue square.
If you donât know many Jewish people, you would likely be surprised how terrifying some recent incidents that you believe to be benign are resonating within Jewish families. You think the Proud Boys are a ludicrous group of bikers who like to yell and scream? They have a violently anti-Semitic world view, and every time they shriek that they want to return America to its Christian roots, what do you think Jewish people are thinking- that they are going to charter a plane and send us all peacefully to Toronto?
Jews also have family members who served in the US military- they fought in Korea, Viet Nam, Afghanistan, Iraq- and the Proud Boys are going to get rid of them too?
"Brian Brathovd, aka Caerulus Rex, told his co-hosts on âThe Daily Shoah,â an antisemitic podcast popular with the alt-right. If the Proud Boys âwere pressed on the issue, I guarantee you that like 90% of them would tell you something along the lines of âHitler was right. Gas the Jews.ââ
But hey, itâs only rhetoric, right? Itâs not like anyone would ever try to eradicate the entire Jewish population of a country, right?
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I didnât read anyone calling you an ogre. If someone is intent on being a victim claiming to have been called an ogre that is their problem not mine.
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I think there is missing context, but multiple users have graciously set the record straight, so the ogre comment is now water under the bridge.
Was the context something beyond;
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You donât know a lot of Jewish people
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Jewish people who experience antisemitism and voice it are claiming victimhood
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You are being âvictimizedâ based on being called out
If so I missed it.
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But do you challenge other Jews when they make a joke (or misstatement) of another race or religion that may hurt that group or be incorrect information?
I have a big issue when a group uses an âinside jokeâ and then gets mad when another group uses the same terms or jokes and the original group gets mad. Blacks getting mad when others use the N word but not angry at rappers or music artist who are just making a song. My daughter is Chinese but raised in a mostly white environment, and I donât use the term âbananaâ (or twinkie, or other such terms to mean 'yellow on the outside, white on the inside) and I take great offense when others, even Chinese, do it. But they donât and tell me it is none of my business because Iâm not Chinese so donât understand. I disagree. When the mentally disabled community wanted to remove the R word from use, they removed it. They didnât continue to use it and expect others to stop using it, they removed it. And it worked.
I have good friends who are Jewish (in fact, going to Passover at their house tomorrow, as I have done for many years). At their Hanukkah party, she was reading an oh so funny story (not) written by a NYC teacher about how to explain Hanukkah to non-Jews and making comparisons to gifts, food, traditions, etc. It had a part about the candles and how a menorah had 9 but an advent wreath only had 5. I said no, there are 4, and my friend said no, 5 it says 5. It was her party so I let it go, but I know (from having an advent wreath in my home and buying many sets of candles over the years that it is 4 (1 pink, 3 purple). She then said âOh, all the churches in NYC are going to be closed on Christmas because it is on a Sunday.â WHAT? She had read it in the NY Times. I assured her that catholic churches would be open on Christmas, on a Sunday. No no no, sheâd read it in the Times. I later read the article and it was about a few megachurches, most in the midwest, that had rescheduled the services to 9 on Christmas Eve and then were just holding gatherings on Christmas day. Their religion, their choice on how to celebrate, but I can assure you that St. Patrick Cathedral was open on Christmas morning for Mass. But she read it in the NY Times so it hard to be true! (she misread it in the Times) She is very smart, very Jewish religiously, but believes it is okay for her to make a joke about being Jewish and other religions but that others canât do it.
I believe it is a balance to be respectful but not take every single word as an insult when it is not meant to be one. I could spend the entire meal tomorrow being angry at the insults (as there will be some) but I choose to let it go and enjoy the meal (she is a fantastic cook) and the company of friends.
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it is not my habit to insult other ethnic groups or religions, and I take it seriously when someone corrects me. And there is enough misunderstanding in the world without me adding to it by using an expression incorrectly- or a slur, however innocently.
A friend explained to me why SHE prefers Latina to Hispanic and it made sense. And I am grateful to the many friends over the years who have explained nuances in Christian dogma and practice to me.
I donât insult easily, despite what this thread might suggest. Criticize my hair, my weight, my wardrobe, my laugh, my teeth (bad orthodonture-- oh well, my parents tried), my car. All of which happens enough and I laugh it off.
But someone threatening the gas chambers is not an insult. Someone trying to restore America to its Christian heritage is not an insult. Someone claiming that the first amendment gives them the right to threaten violence in front of a house of worship is not an insult-- itâs gone past that.
I would be delighted if the only thing happening in America today were a few funny/tasteless jokes (depending on your point of view). The dead worshipers at Tree of Life synagogue in Pittsburgh could probably take a joke but they werenât given the opportunity.
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IMO there is a difference between laughing at ourselves and laughing at (mocking/making fun of) others. And some things that are claimed to be âall in jestâ are, as @blossom has said are uncomfortable and unsettling.
I grew up hearing plenty of jokes about Polish and Irish people. They were tasteless, they were hurtful (as I am both). What they were not was threatening. I am grateful that those jokes seem to have gone the way of the dinosaurs, but how fortunate I am that within a pretty short span of time, they disappeared. Jewish people, people of color, Muslims and non-Muslim Arabic people are experiencing much more than mere stupid ethnic jokes. What they have experienced for generations is not disappearing ⊠in fact, it is getting worse, as people are emboldened by an acceptance of public rhetoric that is fanning the fires of hatred. Those who fall for it want everyone to believe that they arenât actually bigots. Itâs up to those who see through the b.s. to call them out.
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