<p>The</a> Campus Rape Myth by Heather Mac Donald, City Journal Winter 2008</p>
<p>discuss</p>
<p>Sounds like a simple matter of the availability heuristic taking place: Because of high publicity cases of rape are abundant, students believe it happens more often than it really does.....woah I spent way too much time studying Psychology haha</p>
<p>I don't like the tone of that article at all... "alleged" victims? Seriously?</p>
<p>I agreed and disagreed with several points...</p>
<p>But on a random note, one survey of a school found that 70% of guys would rape a girl if they knew they would get away with it (all from one school, I don't remember which; the stat. was given during one of those assemblies my school brings in).</p>
<p>Wow. I strongly disagreed with this article.</p>
<p>"While women’s studies professors bang pots and blow whistles at antirape rallies, in the dorm next door, freshman counselors and deans pass out tips for better orgasms and the use of sex toys."</p>
<p>Rape isn't about sex. It's about power and force. It's not about pleasing a partner or reaching orgasm. Also: what college passes out sex toys? I think the author is a little confused, and probably thinking of condoms. Sheesh.</p>
<p>"Certainly, [young women] would have to alter their sexual behavior radically to avoid falling prey to the rape epidemic."</p>
<p>Are you kidding me?!?! What a disgusting article by a misinformed "journalist".</p>
<p>I found the main point to be offensive, although minor points about political correctness and lack of real evidence seemed valid. Basically, she seemed to be saying a victim's drinking or clothing somehow makes her partly responsible for rape. Really, that make no sense... if you're drunk and expensively dressed does that make your partially responsible for being robbed? And if the robber was drunk too does that somehow make him crime less serious (maybe a better example would be drunk driving for that but I hope you get what I'm inferring).</p>
<p>
[quote]
I don't like the tone of that article at all... "alleged" victims? Seriously?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I think "alleged victims" is referring to people who those with control of the statistics "allege" were raped, while the actual victims themselves disagree, and do not think they were.</p>
<p>the point of her article is that the issue is overblown. Nowhere close to 25% of college females have been raped, based on the facts, yet interest groups continue to throw out this number.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Koss’s study had serious flaws. Her survey instrument was highly ambiguous, as University of California at Berkeley social-welfare professor Neil Gilbert has pointed out. But the most powerful refutation of Koss’s research came from her own subjects: 73 percent of the women whom she characterized as rape victims said that they hadn’t been raped. Further—though it is inconceivable that a raped woman would voluntarily have sex again with the fiend who attacked her—42 percent of Koss’s supposed victims had intercourse again with their alleged assailants.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>
[quote]
A survey of sorority girls at the University of Virginia found that only 23 percent of the subjects whom the survey characterized as rape victims felt that they had been raped
[/quote]
</p>
<p>things like this, are not acceptable (denial of constitutional rights):
[quote]
At Yale, it is the accuser who decides whether the accused may confront her—a sacrifice of one of the great Anglo-Saxon truth-finding procedures. “You don’t want them to not come to the board and report, do you?” asks physics professor Peter Parker, convener of the university’s Sexual Harassment Grievance Board.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>if you walk down an alley (drink till you can't remember things) at night and get mugged (raped), is it your fault? No. However, there are some decisions that you could've made (walk around the alley, don't drink so much) that would make you less likely to be mugged (raped). That is a fact. There are good decisions and bad decisions.</p>
<p>"if you walk down an alley (drink till you can't remember things) at night and get mugged (raped), is it your fault? No. However, there are some decisions that you could've made (walk around the alley, don't drink so much) that would make you less likely to be mugged (raped). That is a fact. There are good decisions and bad decisions."</p>
<p>soccerguy, that was my point precisely but you made it a lot clearer, thanks :).</p>
<p>
[quote]
Also: what college passes out sex toys?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>As a side note, some students in an organization at my undergrad school gave out free vibrators to anyone that would fill out a sexual habits survey.</p>
<p>RacinReaver, please check your PM.</p>
<p>I'm sorry, I think a big issue is actually that so many girls don't understand rape or their rights because of things like "sure there are smarter choices you could've made." She could've drunk less, but in fact, there is a law that if a person is way intoxicated, it is rape when a guy has sex with her (or vice versa). Furthermore, colleges make most students feel safe because it's their home and they walk around the campus all day, every day and so...they aren't observant. </p>
<p>I go to CU though and the first week I was there a guy, high on shrooms, broke into a girl's room above my floor and tried to rape her. Furthermore, there were no locks on the girl's (or guy's) bathroom doors although there were rape whistles hanging in the shower.</p>
<p>The article was <em>not</em> saying that if a girl gets drunk or dresses slutty, that it's fault or partial fault if she gets raped. No sane person would take that stance.</p>
<p>The article was implying that
1. Campus administration/ various baby boomer organizations are overblowing the prevalance of rape on campus as an attempt to control behavior. "Look to you your left, now look to your right; both of these men will rape you." - FG</p>
<ol>
<li>As a result of such culture, the article implied that many, if not most rape allegations, on a typical campus are dubious at best. I.e., the female was not actually raped/ she explicitly consented to sex/ wanted sex - but accused the guy of rape anyway --- maybe she regretted having sex after the fact or even worse --- she simply accuses a guy of rape as a power play, as a social maneuver, or a form of revenge.</li>
</ol>
<p>The article did cite one girl crying rape after her 'boyfriend' found out what she did with several guys. Now why would she wait to do that? Her motives are pretty obvious. </p>
<p>I know it's somewhat faux pas to talk about false rape allegations - because maybe it'll make a woman too scared to accuse a guy who raped her (although seeing how the 25% statistic was a myth, I'm guessing the unreport rate is from the same woman and also mythical) and because talking about false allegations sounds like one is being 'soft' or 'sympathetic' on rapists... which couldn't be further from the truth. In my opinion, rape is truly one of the most despicable acts a human can do on this earth. Which is also why it's truly terrible to accuse an innocent man of rape. Even if a man is completely innocent (didn't even sleep with the girl) and is accused -- it's the kind of accusation that will follow the man and destroy his life.</p>
<p>The irony is that men probably fear being accused of rape more than women fear being raped. How often have you seriously had a fear of rape in the past year (by people you know at a party, not the homeless guy near the train station that even I fear will shank me). Most of the guys you know are probably fragile-ego nerdy types or even if they are cool guys, either way they will most likely shut down at the first sign of any kind of rejection. You are not thinking about rape when you go out. Guys do have a real fear of being accused though (even though 99% would NEVER do it)... which is probably the main reason most rational men avoid drunk girls. But really, it's almost come to the point where you need to video tape oral consent and have a written contract to cover your ass in case the girl tries to screw you (metaphorically) if you dump her, cheat on her, or **** her off.</p>
<p>I'd reread the article; it has some pretty valid points.</p>
<p>^^^ nice post</p>
<p>I think one of the most disturbing points in the article was the one about the Duke Lacrosse case. The article points out that many of those orientation rape-awareness speakers still allude to the idea that the Duke kids did do something wrong and got away with it.</p>
<p>The thing that I find most annoying about this whole situation these days is (and peter_parker mentioned it) the idea of how ambiguous consent can be. Yes, when you are drunk, you are not responsible for things that happen to you, but you are responsible for things you do. If a woman is blackout drunk, the law states she cannot give consent. It's one thing to coerce a drunk girl, but to be quite frank, if a girl takes out a condom, says, "I want you to **** me" and starts taking off my pants, even if she's blackout drunk (how am I supposed to know anyway) it's unbelievable that if she doesn't remember it, the university will almost certainly take her side if she claims that I raped her. I know that no court of law would ever find me guilty (which is why, as the article points out, these cases almost never leave the university), but my reputation at the university would be totally ruined, and if I received some sort of disciplinary action, when I apply to grad school of some sort, I will have to report it, and it would certainly hurt my chances of getting in.</p>
<p>damn straight peter and i_wanna. I hate how the mere insinuation that what is considered rape is too broad automatically means people are advocating rape.</p>
<p>
[quote]
If a woman is blackout drunk, the law states she cannot give consent. It's one thing to coerce a drunk girl, but to be quite frank, if a girl takes out a condom, says, "I want you to **** me" and starts taking off my pants, even if she's blackout drunk (how am I supposed to know anyway)
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Are you kidding, you can't tell when someone is "blackout drunk"? I find that difficult to believe, unless you haven't met a drunk person before.</p>
<p>It's simple. If you think there might be a possibility that someone isn't giving consent in their right mind, don't have sex with them. It's really not that difficult. Don't cry about how it'll be harder for you to get into grad school if you didn't have the presence of mind to go, "Huh. This girl seems really wasted. Maybe this isn't a good idea."</p>
<p>I think you guys should at least check out this article to get a different point of view before you make generalizations about how women feel about rape, or compare one person's fear of being accused of rape to actually being raped. Beyond</a> Rape: A Survivor's Journey from The Plain Dealer - cleveland.com</p>
<p>I'm also going to point out some statistics from this page of articles that I stumbled across in a similar conversation (One</a> in three people blame women)</p>
<p>"Percentage of rapes reported to police in 2004 resulting in a conviction: 5%."</p>
<p>So I really don't think it's a valid argument that an innocent man's life is likely to be ruined by any woman who has a vendetta against him - considering that false accusations for rape and most crimes is estimated to run at 2%. You can double that number (4%?) triple it, multiple it by 40 (80%?) - and most innocent men would still be safe. Unless you think it's more important just not to have any rape laws or draconian ones just in case an innocent is accused, because even if they get off it'll hurt their image in the community. While we're at it, why don't we just get rid of laws against theft, plagiarism, and murder? You can be falsely accused of those, too!</p>
<p>
[quote]
It's simple. If you think there might be a possibility that someone isn't giving consent in their right mind, don't have sex with them. It's really not that difficult. Don't cry about how it'll be harder for you to get into grad school if you didn't have the presence of mind to go, "Huh. This girl seems really wasted. Maybe this isn't a good idea."
[/quote]
</p>
<p>situation:
guy is drunk
girl is drunk
guy and girl have sex which is consensual as far as anyone can tell
next day, girl says there is no way she would've had sex with that guy if she was sober. If she decided to claim rape in this situation, under the logic of "I wouldn't have done it if I had full control, therefore obviously I didn't have full control, therefore I was taken advantage of" the guy will probably be found guilty.</p>
<p>this is a problem.</p>
<p>Of course, there are the other situations, where people break into rooms / buildings and rape someone who lives there. This, obviously, has no room for discussion.</p>
<p>Yes - I agree that if they're both drunk, that is definitely a legal conundrum and will need to be approached from a different angle. But if you look above, the vast, vast, vast majority of rape cases do not result in a conviction: so, contrary to what you claim, the guy will almost certainly not be found guilty. Only 1 in 20 rape cases results in conviction.</p>
<p>The law doesn't say "any woman who says she was taken advantage of can thrown a guy in jail"; it is setting up a precedent so that a lawyer can argue against any scumbag who would claim "look, she didn't say no because she was unconscious; the law only says it's rape if she says no." It's creating a way of blocking that argument, not setting up any guy who sleeps with someone who is tipsy.</p>
<p>And really, most rape isn't the "break into a house" kind. In vast majority of rape cases, the victim knows their rapist. Often, it's a family member or even friend. Often, it's a date. There need to be laws to deal with those cases as they constitute the majority of rape cases.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Are you kidding, you can't tell when someone is "blackout drunk"? I find that difficult to believe, unless you haven't met a drunk person before.</p>
<p>It's simple. If you think there might be a possibility that someone isn't giving consent in their right mind, don't have sex with them. It's really not that difficult. Don't cry about how it'll be harder for you to get into grad school if you didn't have the presence of mind to go, "Huh. This girl seems really wasted. Maybe this isn't a good idea."
[/quote]
</p>
<p>To be fair, apparently I've wound up doing my girlfriend once or twice in the middle of the night and I didn't remember it in the morning (no drinking/drugs for me, either). I could easily see how, if we haven't been in a relationship for almost two years now, that could easily be construed quite the wrong way (and if I was the only one that remembered it and not her).</p>
<p>First, I would like to express my whole-hearted agreement with the statement that when going out partying/drinking, men are more worried about being accused of rape than women are of being raped.</p>
<p>And second, heres a quick scenario...</p>
<p>Guy and girl are trashed.
Girl isn't a looker.
Both wake up the next morning, guy is horrified.
Will his claim that the girl raped him go through?</p>
<p>And than take that to another level... the girl hasn't had anything to drink... does it change the situation?</p>