The Case For Affirmative Action

<p><strong><em>First this is intended to count the pervasive notion that somehow affirmative action is unfair, or repugnant, or takes away a white or asian person’s spot in college.</em></strong>*********</p>

<li><p>Affirmative action legislation must first be placed within contet of when it was initially introduced in a very different America. One where minorities who were equally qualified and better qualified where denied access to the upper echoloens of education. the concept of technology drag can be attributed to the legality of a state, as the laws of a country are often the last things changed in the progression of socitey, therefore the “indigination” towards minority groups is ridiculous as none of them crafted the laws, nor have any ability in influenigncing their implementation.</p></li>
<li><p>A siginificant proportion of individuals who do well on the SAT and the ACT are of a wealthy variety. Although this does not hold true unequivocally minority group tend to reside in the lower income brackets within America. (Bear in mind this functions not as an independent arguement, bc it can easily be cross applied to whites as well, but rather as a framework arguement)</p></li>
<li><p>The difficulties of being a minority adversely affects one capabilities to preform well in school related subjects dominated my majority individuals. This is true from anedoctal evidence. In my precalcus honors class I was the only black person and for the first couple of weeks I doubted my capabilities simply on the basis that i was different and considered dropping the class. This in lue of the fact that I am one of the top students in my entire school, reveals that sociological factors affects one’s performance as much as innate intelligence.</p></li>
<li><p>Minority achievement is adversely impacted bu relationships within minority cultures. The preponderance of education is not reflect within minority communities, placing a burden on those few who do excel to be ostracised from their respective communities, which decreases the number who are actually successful. </p></li>
<li><p>Minorities are often not as connected are knowledgable about activities that may bolster thier application. I.e. Science research which is larger an asian and whtie dominated field, requires not only intelligence and capabilities but also the knowledge that said programs exist. Minorities whose parents do not have a technical background may lack the knowledge of how to apply to these programs as well as thier existence.</p></li>
<li><p>Minorities educational institutions are often subpar. This is a general statment as not all minorities attend subpar schools, but a larger proportion of minority students encounter the dilenma of lack of funding, or ineffective teaching. Ancedotal evidence 2: A student (all honors) transferred to my suburban school from the urban school district, this student struggled because his background did not adequately prepare him on the same level as our school did.</p></li>
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<p><b>7. The historical implications of past abuses by the United States legal system as well as policies toward minorities. Many people would argue (as I have personally heard) that minorities today are not affected by past discrimination such as slavery. Although that arguement is valid, it skews the timeline for the possiblity for minorities to attain an equal education, it was not until the Brown Decision (1954) that schools were legally supposed to be integrated. But integration did not fully begin because Johnson was a states righter and so schools were not even integrated until the 60’s. This contextual adjustment means that minorities have only had 1 generation that had the capabilities to achieve what white individuals have had generations to accomplish. In that light affirmative action helped to expedite the process by reducing barriers that stood in the way of successful minorities to rise to positions of power. Ex. Colin Powell, Barack Obama, Thomas Sowell, Condelzza Rice, Clarence Thomas. This functions two-fold to not only present an explanation of why affirmative action should be implemented but also shows that boone that affirmative action has held.<\b></b></p><b>

<p>What this represents in an economic sense is a basic supply and demand. Due to this limiting factors occuring more so in minority communities, there are fewer that do excel. The desire for diversity then is seen as trumping the application of others. Note however, that noone takes anyone else’s spot as no person is guaranteed a spot in college, nor does any one deserve a spot until an admission officer denotes it as such. The point is that there seems to be a lot of sentiment that if a person did not get into a school, they revert to blaming minority ppl for “taking thier spot” which is ridiculous. Especially in light of the fact that colleges accept a wide spread of individuals, with higher or lower stats or whatever. But these individuals do not attack white applicants or Asian applicants with lower scores who are accepted, did they not also take thier spot?
One could argue that it is the institutionalization that causes the indiganation, but that again is false, although Affirmative Action is a policy that many private schools utilize, many schools do not use race in admission decision (Such as good state schools, UT&Berkeley). But moreover, without an institualized policy admission commitees will still use diversity issues in admission decisions, such as geography. A person from Idaho may get in over a person from Maine, but then again there is not a sense of indigination. Why?</p>
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<p>Interesting post.</p>

<p>While schools in the south weren’t fully integrated until >1954, they were in some other areas of the country (for example, Washington, where I live). I know my mother attended an integrated elementary school in the 1930s. I concede the point that there weren’t many African-Americans living here in the 30’s. How would you address that?</p>

<p>I understand and agree with your point about the way that minority culture affects educational achievement, but why do/would you expect either the government of educational institutions to compensate for that? </p>

<p>I’m not trying to be argumentative, I’m just really curious.</p>

<p>I fully support AA to help those who are socioeconomically underprivileged.</p>

<p>On the other hand, I don’t understand the purpose of AA based on race. We’re supposed to be, as a society, accepting of other races. They say that the current generation is the most color-blind of any so far. Why continue to enforce divisions between races as if they’re different, and then advocate that they are the same?</p>

<p>That’s not really a legitimate case for affirmative action nowadays. It was 30 or 40 years ago, but now that sort of rational is out of touch with modern day problems.</p>

<p>Schools should stop using race as a proxy for socio-economic class, give more consideration to disadvantaged kids regardless of their race, gender, geography, etc., but still allow things like race, gender, geography, etc. to be used to promote diversity.</p>

<p>Lastly, I think that there needs to be more of an effort to help people understand how standardized test scores are used in the admissions process. Many people–especially first generation Asian students and their parents–incorrectly believe that the SAT is the equivalent to national exams which just isn’t true.</p>

<p>highhopes and newjack, i could not have said it better myself. I have always supported AA to help those stricken with poverty, and those who have had a tough upbringing.. but despite that have proven they are capable. However, like the above posters have said, there can be a rich black guy and a poor white guy… and although i am not a hundred percent sure(correct me if i am wrong).. the current system would give the black guy an advantage over the poorer white guy. </p>

<p>That is why i do not get the URM thing because it seems to me it is based on Race… ‘O i have URM status.. i am XXXX race’ and then people reply .. "youre in because of your URM status.’ That seems to me more based on race rather than socioeconomic status.</p>

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Agree with this 100%.</p>

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<p>It depends on the school. If you’re talking about some state school, then yes. If you’re talking about schools like Harvard, then no.</p>

<p>The affirmative action policy that I posted in my earlier post is essentially a summary of the one that has been used by Harvard for decades now–which is also the policy the Supreme Court recommended schools adopt in the Bakke case.</p>

<p>If you’re black and not dumb, if not slightly bright, you should be able to get into a satisfactory state college. If you’re a well-rounded black kid that’s bright enough, you should be able to attend a good number of schools.</p>

<p>I have no sympathy for rich black brats complaining that they need affirmative action to join the ivy league, along with the other 2400 SAT, 4.0 GPA, 3 sports, an instrument, and a cure for cancer.</p>

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<p>Yes, but using the term minority like that means you are separating people into groups when its much better to focus on the individual. </p>

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<p>It would be much more equitable to give consideration to a person’s socioeconomic status rather than race. Statistically, this means that we would nail most members of historically disadvantaged minorities. However with AA, some people, such as rich Blacks, would gain while other, such as poor whites, would slip through the cracks. </p>

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<p>True, but there are two causes of this. Cultural values and economic situations. Some minorities, when controlled for income, do better than other minorities because some value education more than others. The second one is more obvious, people that have money have better educational resources because they can afford it. Both these factors effect an individuals chances to succeed much more so than merely being a minority. </p>

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<p>Very true. But can’t the same be said for poor whites as well? But, so far, most poor Asians tends to take academics more seriously than the aforementioned groups. Why? Cultural values. If they hold such ingratiating beliefs, why can’t other minority groups? </p>

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<p>This is true for anyone that is poor, regardless of race. Sure, more minorities are poor. Then, we can simply get rid of AA and use socioeconomic considerations instead. It much more fair and solves the problem. </p>

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<p>I don’t know what to say to this other than proposing the solution I have previously mentioned. After all, we can all agree that a rich Black person with strong work ethic doesn’t deserve any more points for being disadvantaged than a rich, hard working white person. My idea gets rid of that prospect.</p>

<p>Dbate, most of the problems you cited are not unique to blacks. Your argument, with the exception of point number 3, could just as easily be used to make the case for socioeconomic preferences rather than racial preferences.</p>

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<p>Because geographic location is not a [protected</a> class](<a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protected_class]protected”>Protected group - Wikipedia) under federal anti-discrimination law.</p>

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<p>Agreed, and that’s why a majority of we posters agree race should not be used as a proxy for socio-economic class. Instead, it should be used to promote diversity so that we can ensure that we have a group of educated elites that is at least as diverse as our population.</p>

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<p>True, but we are talking about “positive discrimination” not “discrimination.” </p>

<p>Anyway, the Bakke case said it was constitutional to consider geographic location because it is a proxy for opportunity and socio-economic class.</p>

<p>In my opinion, positive and negative discrimination are one and the same. The opportunity cost of giving one group a boost is giving other groups a boost. If you don’t belong to the group which receives the boost, you’re at a disadvantage ceteris paribus. I think a more intellectually honest argument in support of AA is “Yes it’s discriminatory, but it’s worth it.”</p>

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<p>In fact, that seems like a rational justification for AA. After all, if we want to help individuals lacking conducive pedigrees, we would just use socioeconomic considerations instead of AA. So now its about creating diversity.(Following that logic, universities consider diversity to be more important than redressing the lack of economic opportunities of poor people.) However, they should know that if they give preferences to poor people instead of using AA, they would automatically promote diversity.</p>

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<p>That’s why positive discrimination is called positive discrimination…</p>

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<p>Socio-economic affirmative action on its own actually decreases other types of diversity like racial/ethnic diversity, geographic diversity, etc.</p>

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<p>Now, why is this? Most poor people are minorities. So when a lot of poor people are applying, you’re going to get a lot of minorities getting preference cetris paribus.</p>

<p>And it’s still gonna be, “OMG that black kid took my spot!”</p>

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<p>No, most poor people are white. You’re probably thinking about poverty rates not actual numbers of poor people.</p>

<p>Also, just so you know, Asians would be disproportionally negatively affected by an affirmative action policy that considered only socio-economic class since they are the wealthiest ethnic/racial group on average.</p>

<p>affirmative action is a great for what it was intended; help the less privileged. However, it was created for the short term. Designed to boost possibilities of social mobility, it was not meant to last forever. Once these possibilities were created and some minorities did move up in class, it was meant to be taken away for the sake of others.</p>

<p>As a well-off white girl, of course I am not in favor of affirmative action. However, it is a great temporary tweek in the system to help those brought up with less opportunities.</p>

<p>Affirmative action is why the world we live in is complete isht. Why should we reward second place over first place?</p>

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<p>What if that first place guy was only winning the race because he had a 50m head start?</p>