<p>Brown man...seriously...OK?</p>
<p>I completely agree that Brown, Duke, and Cornell are peer schools, but the whole explanation about Duke not being in the Ivy League was little over the top - especially since the Ivy League began as an athetic conference. I also agree that EAD should stop trying to flatter himself lol.</p>
<p>Brownman you're not doing Brown a favor with all your hatin'
The Ivy League is actually basically just a sports league, and as you pointed out since most average Joe's know Duke for basketball, it follows then that Duke wouldn't join the Ivy League b/c their basketball team wouldn't face any competition :)
All of these schools are world-class, if you do well it doesn't really matter which one of them you went to, at least in my opinion.</p>
<p>I deleted my other post since I felt I came off a bit strong... Sorry about that, but how can this guy claim that these two Ivy League schools are below Duke? What I meant to say is that there is no way Duke is better than an Ivy League education. There is NO WAY YOU WILL CONVINCE ME OTHERWISE. At best, Duke is a peer of these schools. In my opinion, a rigorous Cornell education or an open-curriculum Brown education definitely provide better opportunities to learn for Cornell/Brown students and put it over Duke. Duke is a reputable school where you will get a good education... but is it really so good that Brown and Cornell can't even be considered peers? Hell no. Employers and grad schools will definitely look at them equally at worst. Probably, since Cornell's curriculum is so tough and because of the unique educational experiences Brown students have, most employers and grad schools think higher of Cornell and Brown than Duke. In my opinion, Cornell and Brown have a much better name factor too. Outside of the Southeast, Duke basketball is better known than Duke academics. Cornell and Brown are known all over the world. EAD needs to stop flattering himself. Duke is good but not great.</p>
<p>Much more tactful this time, Brown man :)</p>
<p>Great things about Duke:</p>
<ol>
<li>Loyal friend, just happy to do whatever you want to do as long as he gets to be with you.</li>
<li>Good walking and hiking companion.</li>
<li>Easily learns cool tricks -- does the "paw bump," flips the biscuit off his nose and catches it, can open sliding doors.</li>
<li>Not too big, not too small, just the right size - about 48 lbs.</li>
<li>Strong retrieving instinct.</li>
</ol>
<p>. . . what? Yeah, my dog Duke. The university? Ohhh! </p>
<p>Never mind.</p>
<p>(Thanks, Gilda!)</p>
<p>Duke is the dog from the baked beans commercial!</p>
<p>
Of course, there are some people who apply to basically all top schools like I did and have Duke in the mix. But during my campus visit, it was clear that a number of the students were only interested in attending Duke out of all elite colleges or at least had it as their clear first choice in out of all the elite colleges they applied. It is indeed a "dream school" and a "perfect fit" for a certain type of student. Northwestern and Duke have stronger student bodies and offer a more quality learning environment than Cornell and JHU. Cornell and JHU students are always talked about on this site as being extremely stressed and cut-throat.</p>
<p>How is Columbia "for sure" a notch above Cornell if you don't consider Duke as being a notch above it? It seems like you're just another elitist Northerner who hates the South and the great schools the region has.</p>
<p>
<a href="http://www.wsjclassroomedition.com/pdfs/wsj_college_092503.pdf%5B/url%5D">http://www.wsjclassroomedition.com/pdfs/wsj_college_092503.pdf</a>
1. Duke: 8.61%
2. Brown: 6.51%
3. Cornell: 3.23%
You lose. </p>
<p>This feeder survey has a Northern bias and NONE of the top grad programs that are analyzed are Duke ones. Duke is second only to HYPS and Williams. It might be closer to Williams and Stanford if these biases didn't exist.</p>
<p>Let's face it: When it comes to admissions to top grad schools, Duke is in a league that includes schools like Dartmouth, Amherst and MIT. Not Cornell or JHU or Michigan or whatever...</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Columbia has a tremendous prestige around the globe. It has much more prestige than Duke at international stage. Most internationals, including Europeans, Asians, etc, regard Columbia to be top 10 best university in the world, while most haven't even heard of Duke. In NE, too, Columbia edges Duke. In the West Coast, too, Columbia is up there just below Stanford, but probably on par or higher than Berkeley. In Midwest or South, I believe, the distinction between Duke and Columbia may not be as clear, and probably Duke may edge out Columbia only in the South corner of the U.S.</p>
<p>
<p>This feeder survey has a Northern bias and NONE of the top grad programs that are analyzed are Duke ones. Duke is second only to HYPS and Williams. It might be closer to Williams and Stanford if these biases didn't exist.</p>
<p>Let's face it: When it comes to admissions to top grad schools, Duke is in a league that includes schools like Dartmouth, Amherst and MIT. Not Cornell or JHU or Michigan or whatever...
</p>
<p>Some people on this board are....so frustratingly slow in comprehending what others say to them. First of all, Duke isn't on par with MIT in any shape or form. Most would agree that MIT is a stronger institution than Duke. EAD, people like Alexandre, pizzagirl, Cayuga, and many others have confronted you for using these flawed data for reaching certain conclusions on your favor in the past, in many occasions. Yet, I see you brining same idiotic arguments over and over again. WSJ survey only measures the percentage of certain school's grads entering top professional schools, such as law, medicine, mba, etc. Of course, schools like Cornell will lag behind schools like Duke or Williams in this kind of survey. EAD, like 100th time, let me dumb it down for you, again. Cornell has architecture, hotel, agriculture, and other specialty schools, while Duke has ONLY CAS and Engineering. THEREFORE, Cornell is going to have a much lower percentage of its grads entering certain paths such as law schools, mba, or whatnot. Cornell grads would represent much broader spectrum of career/academic choices than Duke. And, this would explain why Cornell is rated lower than Duke on that survey. </p>
<p>If you still persistently assert that Duke has better grad school placement into top grad schools after what I wrote, which I suspect given your history, then more power to you. Honestly, did you expect an admissions officer at Harvard law or medical schools to cut slack with Duke applicants with their gpa or test scores, while asking Cornell applicants for higher numbers? I HIGHLY doubt that the adcoms at top grad schools would be like "hmmm, this guy went to Duke, with 3.8, and the other guy is from Cornell, with 3.8. So, I will pick this guy from Duke." LOL. Get real. To prove me wrong, provide me with some data that shows that the adcoms at top grad schools will look more favorably upon Duke applicants, compared to Cornell applicants, given simliar qualifications between the two applicants.</p>
<p>ALL THESE SCHOOLS ARE ON PAR!- harvard to duke to notre dame to williams etc-- now once you get into the state schools/some lower schools you see a weaker student body but that doesnt mean there arent those same quality academics</p>
<p>everyone learns a different way/atmosphere etc so it really doesnt matter about acceptance % or any statistics at all- all these schools are good- now some specific programs may be better but an overall education at 1-50 schools are "on par" with each other in my opinion (in general)</p>
<p>^^ you'd be surprised by how similar the top publics' student bodies are to some of the top-20 privates.</p>
<p>Kyle, let us not go down that road! LOL!</p>
<p>
[quote]
Northwestern and Duke have stronger student bodies and offer a more quality learning environment than Cornell and JHU.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I call bs on that one. As an NU grad, I would never say or believe such a thing. These are four excellent schools with outstanding student bodies and outstanding opportunities. The differences, and the choice to go to one or the other among that crowd, are ones of personal fit and preference. </p>
<p>Why do you have such low self-esteem that it really scares you that someone might think that a <em>lot</em> of colleges have student bodies of similar quality to your own? What's it to you? The way you've gone after Michigan is particularly telling. As a Michigander yourself, it's very telling that you feel a need to separate / distinguish yourself from what you perceive as "the masses" who go to Michigan. Why can't you be happy going to Duke and also recognize that the kids who go to Mich also get a quality and well respected education, too?</p>
<p>It doesn't bother *me as an NU grad that any of the schools rated above NU on USNWR are rated higher. Why would it? Good for those schools and their students! It doesn't take away from the fabulousness of *my education and my personal experience. Why would it hurt me to say that a bunch of other schools also provide great educations? If someone on here said, "I went to Emory or Georgetown or Vandy and it was a great school," why on earth would I feel compelled to point out that my own alma mater has higher SAT's or lower acceptance rate or whatever? Why couldn't I just say, "Hey, great! Glad you enjoyed your time there! Bet you learned a lot, and good luck to you in your future endeavors!" </p>
<p>Why are ratings so IMPORTANT to you, EAD? Are you nothing more than a x.x GPA, a xxxx SAT score, and a student of a college rated x on USNWR? Would you be less of a person if your GPA dropped suddenly?</p>
<p>
[quote]
</p>
<p><a href="http://www.wsjclassroomedition.com/p...ege_092503.pdf%5B/url%5D">http://www.wsjclassroomedition.com/p...ege_092503.pdf</a>
1. Duke: 8.61%
2. Brown: 6.51%
3. Cornell: 3.23%
You lose. </p>
<p>This feeder survey has a Northern bias
[/quote]
</p>
<p>So, this WSJ feeder survey has a "Northern bias." </p>
<p>But there's <em>no</em> bias towards schools that only have arts/sci & engineering when you use WSJ feeder surveys that measure placement into Wall Street jobs, law school and med school. ROFL.</p>
<p>EAD, really. I don't care if you graduate from Duke with a 4.0 GPA. Do you really think your arrogance is going to get you anywhere in the real world? Do you think <em>any</em> hiring manager is going to listen to you and your transparent attempts to make sure everyone knows you go to the best school and you are therefore so much more superior than people who go to schools rated lower than yours and those differences in SAT scores and acceptance rates are really meaningful, and want to hire you? Because I have to tell you. After 20 years in the work force and much experience hiring people, your kind of attitude / arrogance is evident from the word go, and you'd be the kind of person where the first people interviewing you on the schedule would come around to the people later on the schedule and say "don't bother, cut this guy loose at lunch time." Why do you think your arrogance about Duke is appealing or convincing?</p>
<p>
[quote]
First of all, it's a girl. And I think she brings up some excellent concerns. Concerns that might not be present to such a degree at a more low key school like JHU or Chicago. The very types of schools that Hawkette doesn't like to give favor to.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Right. Because, contrary to the belief that sports-fandom-writ-large is always a benefit, there IS a downside to an atmosphere that celebrates party-hearty-the-team-won-the-other-team-sucks-woot. Remember, EAD thought it was really cool that Duke people blocked the view of an opposing team fan who was in a wheelchair! Because that's what school spirit is all about -- being a jerk! Woot!</p>
<p>
[quote]
But during my campus visit, it was clear that a number of the students were only interested in attending Duke out of all elite colleges or at least had it as their clear first choice in out of all the elite colleges they applied. It is indeed a "dream school" and a "perfect fit" for a certain type of student.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>So? The same could be said of ANY elite college. Anyway, *my opinion of what's right for *me is independent of what other people think is right for *them, as I'm not a prestige-whore. You can't say the same.</p>
<p>You make some good points, Pizzagirl, but EAD isn't the one keeping this thread alive with 5 consecutive replies.</p>
<p>Can we let this debate drop?</p>