<p>I told D many times that I would be very proud of her if she only became a plumber…but she won’t listen to me.</p>
<p>I had a plumber over at my apartment last week. $190 for 1/2 an hour of work and minimal supplies (new bolts for my toilet). He can command that much because when it’s 9 a.m. and your toilet is leaking and you don’t know how to fix it, your only option is to pay someone who can. If I had that kind of skill, I’d be thrilled to make a career out of it.</p>
<p>Not to mention that the trades now almost always charge a fee to come to your house. Our plumber, electrician and applicance repair guy are less than 2.5 miles from our home…yet we still get a $40 - $50 “add on” for “the trip.” I told our appliance repair guy last month that if he came over and the “patient was dead on arrival with no hope of resucitation” he should forgo the $50 transportation fee out of respect for the family left behind.</p>
<p>I seriously suggested being a plumber to my son too. Our plumber has his own business (turning people away, I think), has a very reasonable work week, and goes on frequent fishing trips all over the country. </p>
<p>Either that or an electrician. (He went to art school instead.)</p>
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</p>
<p>Sure. In fact H and I have suggested it to Son multiple times. </p>
<p>For most of his life he’s heard nothing but college-college-college from us and the extended family. Then one day it dawned on us, “maybe college isn’t for everyone.” So now we make a point of telling him he has the option of trade school. </p>
<p>In spite of this, he seems destined for “book learnin’.” He has told us repeatedly that he doesn’t like tools. Plus, since H’s career is a quasi-trade, he sees first hand the trials and tribulations of running a “creative skill” business. Nope, it’s not for Son.</p>
<p>Can anyone show me the average salary made by a plumber and doctor? I know plumbers make good money, but is that due to years of experience? what is the base pay for plumbers? Anyone have stats about this comparison because I’m truly skeptical.</p>
<p>Plumbers and electricians make a good living; if you own a plumbing or electrical contracting business and employ several, there is incredible potential.</p>
<p>My brother has 3 sons, and has helped all of them with their educations to the extent he could. S1 went to Harvard, graduated with honors and is currently in med school at NYU. S2 went to technical school to become an auto mechanic. He is magic with an engine and has loved taking things apart, fixing and rebuilding from a young age. S3, who is every bit as bright as S1, went to community college, got an associates’ degree in fire science, and is headed for paramedic training next. He’s wanted to be a firefighter from the time he was small. These kids are doing what they want to do and what they’re good at. In another family, the two younger ones may have been pressured to get a 4 year degree; I think it’s nice that they were allowed to choose their own paths.</p>
<p>So long as a person 1) strives to do the best they can, 2) cares about others, and 3) contributes all they can to society, I consider them to be successful regardless of what they do for a living. I am as impressed with a cab driver that meets these criteria as I am a banker. </p>
<p>It’s funny though how often those who make less $ contribute a larger % of themselves to society. When was the last time you saw a banker coaching a little league ball team or leading a girl scout troop?</p>
<p>John.</p>
<p>An excellent plumber is infinitely more admirable than an incompetent philosopher. The society that scorns excellence in plumbing because plumbing is a humble activity and tolerates shoddiness in philosophy because it is exalted activity will have neither good plumbing or good philosophy. Neither its pipes or its theories will hold water. </p>
<pre><code> j. Gardner
</code></pre>
<p>Lots of kids end up working with their hands anyway. Friend’s D graduated from top 20 LAC with Art major and is working as a pastry chef. That’s the best she could find.</p>
<p>Read “The Millionaire Next Door”. The authors found that among the occupations they studied, physicians had a surprisingly low rate of wealth accumulation. Among millionaires, the most likely educational level was a bachelor’s degree, second most likely was no degree. A significant number of millionaires are found among small business owners in trades such as plumbing.</p>
<p>I’d expect that many “millionaire next door” types are not averse to working with their hands. But it’s not a sure thing. Of the three men I’ve known well who were best at working with their hands, one died nearly broke, one died a multi-millionaire, the third’s still alive and in the middle. The broke guy drank the most (and read the most), the rich guy drank the least (and read the least). I guess the lesson is to be handy, sober, and not too literate. YMMV.</p>
<p>^When was the last time you saw a banker coaching a little league ball team or leading a girl scout troop?^</p>
<p>I have girls, so I don’t know a lot of little league coaches, but I saw a banker coaching soccer last Sunday. And a couple lawyers. And a CEO. I saw a doctor on the last girl scout troop campout (her schedule doesn’t permit leading the troop because they meet in the early afternoons, though). I see professionals volunteering in the classroom all the time, although I think a lot of their giving back is in their area of expertise, doing pro bono work. I see your point, but it’s a dangerous generalization.</p>
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<p>Yesterday, and the day before that and every practice/game/season/cookie sale/camping trip before that. They’re everywhere.</p>
<p>I agree with mdoc. You make a dangerous generalization. Volunteer work is quite often inconspicuous and not always related to our children’s activities. In fact, many people prefer to do it unnoticed and without credit.</p>
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<p>I don’t know about bankers, but my dad the actuary and VP at [famous financial services firm] spent many years directing our summer league swim meets, judging for our dive meets, and helping coach our softball teams.</p>
<p>In my ideal world, people would learn the basics of working with both their brains and their hands, and could then decide on a path that used either or both. I didn’t really learn how to work with my hands until I <em>got</em> to college. I rather wish I had learned sooner.</p>
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<p>Numbers and their sources. Indeed.com is a jobsource website; others are databases:
[Job</a> Search | one search. all jobs. Indeed](<a href=“http://www.indeed.com%5DJob”>http://www.indeed.com) Journeyman Plumber $41,000
[Salary.coms</a> Salary Wizard- Do you know what you’re worth?](<a href=“http://swz.salary.com/]Salary.coms”>http://swz.salary.com/) Plumber I $39,521 Plumber II $45,249 Plumber III $52,309
[Plumbers</a>, Pipefitters, and Steamfitters](<a href=“http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes472152.htm]Plumbers”>http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes472152.htm) Occupational Employment and Wages, May 2008 47-2152 Plumbers, Pipefitters, and Steamfitters Salaries are all over the board depending on where one works (location and industry)</p>
<p>[Physicians</a> and Surgeons](<a href=“http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos074.htm#earnings]Physicians”>http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos074.htm#earnings)
Internal medicine: General Less than two years in specialty $141,912 Over one year in specialty $166,420
Pediatrics: General Less than two years in specialty $132,953 Over one year in specialty $161,331
Family practice (without obstetrics) Less than two years in specialty $137,119 Over one year in specialty $156,010</p>
<p>[Salary.coms</a> Salary Wizard- Do you know what you’re worth?](<a href=“http://swz.salary.com/]Salary.coms”>http://swz.salary.com/)
Physician - Family Practice $163,945
Physician Pediatrics $158,009
Physician - Internal Medicine $171,499</p>
<p>[Job</a> Search | one search. all jobs. Indeed](<a href=“http://www.indeed.com%5DJob”>http://www.indeed.com)<br>
Pediatrician $121,000<br>
Family Practice General Physician $125,000
Internal Medicine General Physician $116,000</p>
<p>^^^</p>
<p>Add to plumber’s salaries the cost of 10-12 years additional schooling + income not earned during that period to equal the opportunity cost of becoming an MD.</p>
<p>I have a close friend who’s an MD and very skilled with builiding things as well. He’s so tired of the paperwork of practicing medicine he’s threatening to become a cabinetmaker. He’s a gifted healer, but deserves to be happy too.</p>
<p>My cousin has a son who’s somewhat scary bright and a very likeable young man. He had started and sold several businesses by the time he was 16 and taught himself to play various musical instruments. He decided not to go to college, became a professional musician instead and, after only a year, has recorded, done a tour and a TV special, and is learning how to tune keyboards just to have “something to fall back on”. Initially, upon hearing he wasn’t going to college, I thought it was a bit of a wasted opportunity. I’ll never make that mistake again!</p>
<p>Had a meeting with S’s GC today for junior planning. He’s starting a 2 year electrical/HVAC program next fall. Though his teachers have told me for years they think he’s the brightest kid in the class, he doesn’t seem to care about schoolwork and really likes to work with his hands…at 16 he can already prep and paint houses better than most pros, fix plumbing, rebuild engines, build outdoor tracks, and cook! I don’t know how he figures all of it out, just from books and talking to “experts” - I guess no one ever told him he couldn’t so he just figures he can! So, yes, I’ll definitely support his decision but I’m encouraging him to consider a 2 year college program so he has the most up to date certifications and business management skills. Luckily, he wants to play some junior college sports, so I think it’ll be an easy sell. He already refs some youth hockey games and helps coach Little League. I think he’ll be much happier as an “average joe” than trying to force him into some mold based on “intellectual ability”. What more can a parent hope for their child?</p>
<p>“I agree with mdoc. You make a dangerous generalization…”</p>
<p>Sure, folks can always point out the exceptions. However, my experience in small-town USA has been that the high-end professionals are either 1) never around, or 2) not interested in helping with the basic after school activities. But somehow it’s okay for their kids to participate? Never figured that one out… My observations have been that the local doctors, lawyers, college faculty show up late if at all, and usually overdressed, while the local plumber, electrician, sanitary worker figured out a way to get to the field early, used the maintenance facilities to prep the field, then coached the team when the game started. Meanwhile the upper class parents showed up just in time to take credit for anything good their kid was able to do during the game.</p>
<p>Sure, that’s a severe generalization, but over 10 years in youth sports, it’s more often true than not. And yes, I know an attorney (who is a good friend) that coaches little league every single year. He’s the biggest critic of his professional counterparts too. Somehow he can always find the time, but they can’t…</p>
<p>And with my girls, it was rarely different. Seemed the more a family made, the less of their time they were able or willing to give to more “routine” activities like leading a girl scout troop or organizing a trip…</p>
<p>Slam my comments if you want, but they are merely my observations from middle America. But before you do, ask yourself who your kid’s coaches and scout leaders have been over the years.</p>
<p>John.</p>
<p>Dunno, I know a LOT of sports teams in our neighborhood which are coached by attorneys and docs. They take vacation so they can be there for the kids–one takes 1-2 hours of vacation time every practice day so he is SURE he will be able to be there before practice starts. Others arrange their schedules so that it works around the kids’ sports.</p>
<p>I know there are folks in many other professions too who coach kids sports–perhaps it depends on the community? In my friends’ neighborhood, many of the vounteer schoolbus drivers have PhDs in physics and can help the kids with homework.</p>