Has anyone had experience with asking a school to see the notes the auditors took in the audition room? I imagine that this would be an easier request from schools where the student was accepted, but I think those notes would be a great asset particularly to kids who are considering a gap year and looking for ways to improve.
@Sitzprobe. I’m pretty sure asking for notes is not a good idea. I also doubt they would give them out. Although I agree it would be helpful.
@Sitzprobe On a number of schools’ websites they specifically state they are unable to give feedback, so I would check your schools before asking.
@cruisemama4 - I agree that it would be a good idea. Schools that really want kids could say: Here are all the nice things that the auditors thought about you in the room. If it’s a waitlist or a rejection, then: Here are all the nice things the auditors said about you even though we had to reject you and here’s all the places the auditors felt you could improve to take with you in to your career or in case you want to take a Gap Year and audition for us again next year.
@flippedout That’s really too bad that auditors are bound in that way. Where they are educators, I imagine they would jump at the chance to help a student improve, even if it was only for the few minutes that they were with that student. Every other test or essays gets handed back with a grade at the end, no? Maybe that’s not an accurate equation, but after all the work the kids put in, I just wish they had something more concrete to look at. Even if those answers could sting a little. You can’t be better until you know better.
I wasn’t necessarily asking for my own D specifically. Just thinking about the process in general, mostly the lack of cohesiveness to it all: Student A gets an acceptance at a school with a 10% yield but rejected from one with a 20% yield. Student B gets rejected everywhere except 1 Top Tier. Feedback from the room would be a great asset to a potential artist. Everyone D and I have encountered has presented as helpful and professional, so I’m assuming what’s written on those pages is kind, fair, and based on their material represented their current talent level.
Anyone heard when TCU and Shenandoah will be notifying?
@Collegegame2018 I believe TCU was end of this week if I recall.
@Sitzprobe - that’s where a mock audition comes in. You can get very valuable feedback through a mock and I think @onette described her “kids”’ experience getting that feedback from - maybe a CAP program - recently. Better to get those notes before your real auditions anyway.
I don’t think schools would give out auditions notes - after all, those notes are part of an admissions decision and all it would take is ONE parent deciding that the notes showed some form of bias or negativity and you’d have a lawsuit over admissions with a parent saying their kid had been “unfairly” excluded from an MT program. It’s already happened in elite academics…
@CaMom13 That is exactly why the mock audition was so valuable! I am not going to lie…it was painful to hear some of the things. A few of the school directors are less…um…soft and nurturing as others? (Again, good to know if you are considering working with them in the future!) But it was all feedback I agreed with and had actually given to most of them several times. But they needed to hear it from “their future.” Another note given several times was about not “scooping” notes. I think some want to make their voices stand out from everyone else, so they try to add some riffs and scoops. Some performers can do this effortlessly. They know how to use it sparingly to get great results. Like salt. Others try and then get nervous and “oversalt.” I heard that note was given several times at mock auditions. But, as I know how things can go, nervousness often begets oversinging and trying new things. In front of the people who count. You feel like you need to throw it all out there and push it as hard as possible. And finding a way to be relaxed in front of your “judges” is extemely difficult for some kids. So this mock audition was a perfect way to push through some of that. They had the opportunity to rotate and sing in front of different groups of directors, in small groups. Each group of directors (usually 2-3 to a room, I think) would work with them and give their feedback. Monologue and songs. Then, there was a group dance call each day. Same song, but a different group of college directors there each day.
Emerson says on their website that feedback should come from a place of trust, and a 10-15 minute audition encounter is not sufficient for laying down or developing that trust in which feedback can be given and received. I agree with them. The auditors haven’t worked with the students at all. Of course it would be helpful to get feedback, but the places to get it are in private lessons, master classes, workshops, and mock auditions. I would imagine feedback from 15 auditions would take a young, impressionable performer in 15 different directions, none of which would be especially useful. But that’s just my $0.02.
@WDWMom, @nanamama this thread is breaking my heart. It isn’t my place to judge others - glass houses and all, but I thought I would share my story.
Not too long ago, my daughter schooled me on a similar topic. It isn’t my intent to offend anyone, but instead to educate using my own mortifying ignorance as an example. My straight white d is your typical MTer with lots of friends from diverse backgrounds. I like to think I’m open minded and inclusive of all genders, races, etc. A while back my d had a friend who changed to the they/them/their pronoun. I kept reverting to the old pronoun because “they” meant multiple people to me and “I’m old, get over it”. It was just my daughter and I so didn’t see it as a big deal. She sat me down and explained it didn’t matter if I mistakenly used the wrong pronoun or if the person wasn’t there to hear the conversation or if my d or even her friend wasn’t offended by the wrong pronoun. She found it hurtful because I wasn’t even making an effort and this wasn’t the type of person she believed me to be. Here’s the real kicker, it was sooooo easy to make the adjustment once I “decided” to make the adjustment - as in easier than deciding what to eat for lunch! We’re both happier because my daughter took the time to explain to me her feelings and I took the time to listen and understand her point of view.
First, we each interpret what we see and hear based on our own experiences so regardless of our intent our words and actions will have different meanings to different people. We have no idea what experiences others have endured to bring about their interpretation.
Second, racism/ignorance is a huge problem in our country and while in some areas we seem to be improving in other areas we appear to be doing much worse. In my experience the most effective way to combat racism and ignorance is with education. I believe it’s rare for someone to change their opinion when confronted with accusations.
The number one thing I would bet every one of us wants for our children is to attend a college with others who are not only kind and compassionate, but with people who are willing to listen and take the time to understand them. Don’t we owe it to our children to set the example not only in kindness and compassion, but also a willingness to grow and learn? Don’t we owe it to them to do our part to make this world a better place and to leave every space better for having us in it?
A couple of points on audition feedback. My S appreciated the VERBAL feedback that Carnegie Melon gave DURING the audition. I have seen others comment something similar. The school really is aware of the kids’ admiration and respect for what many call a “lottery” school but their humility and respect of the kids in return shows through. I know a lot of kids that come away from the CMU audition (mine did) with such nice interaction with the adjudicators that they immediately start playing the “What do you think that means?” game. Just my opinion but they really were a class act - no bridges burnt there. Much respect for their program and the way they conduct auditions.
I’m sure the reason they make a hard and fast rule about written feedback is either a liability issue - “Once you put something in writing, the possibility of misinterpretation become real” - or they are trying to avoid the cycle of kids wanting follow up clarification - “What did you mean my song choice didn’t show my natural range?”, “What song should I have sung instead?”, “Which register was I flat in - high end or low end?” Once that door is opened (just like it is on CC), the analyzing would never stop. With the number of kids going through the process starting at pre-screens and even live audition numbers, there isn’t enough time to answer everyone’s follow up questions so they just don’t for anybody.
I really don’t think there is any dark motive for these schools to purposefully keep the mystery alive in this whole process.
And it won’t get easier. My son had a casting agent ask request a video audition for a national touring show. Sent the video in and never heard back - so from his sample size of 1 time doing this, he told me word from others is that it is fairly common to not even get the courtesy of a No at the next level. You just don’t get a response and the decision date passes which is the only way you know it’s a no. On to the next audition.
I agree with @mtparent321 . Unfortunately, growing up in a country with so much underlying white supremacy, there is a lot of subtle racism and bias that is totally invisible to us white people. We think we’re not racist, yet we may unintentionally say things that are hurtful and racist in ways we don’t even notice. When it’s pointed out to us, we need to LISTEN and learn and receive that important constructive feedback. And we need to apologize sincerely. “I’m so sorry my words were hurtful. I didn’t realize it, but I do now, and I’m sorry. Thank you for explaining it to me.” NOT “I’m sorry you were offended,” which puts the blame on the other person. We all make mistakes, but we need to listen and learn from those mistakes and then try to do better. Just my two cents!
I get it. Even as I was typing my last response in my head I said that it’s likely a liability issue that leads to the shredding of written notes. I didn’t think of the additional follow up questions that would likely arise from kids wanting to know even more detail. Many of the auditors I witnessed are honestly working as hard as the kids. I’m sure they want to move on as much as we all do.
If you haven’t read White Fragility by Robin DiAngelo, I highly recommend it. This interview with the author gets to the heart of her discussion in a a short, easy and interesting format.
https://www.theconsciouskid.org/white-fragility
"What white people need to do is start from the premise that you have been shaped by the forces of racism. That you could not have avoided that, and therefore, the question you ask is very different. The question we ask now from the dominant framework is if its racism. But, understanding that it’s a system whose forces have shaped us, changes that question to how was it racism? So that’s the question I would always ask: What does this look like in my life?
When you stop with the defensiveness, and the denial, and the deflection, and the explaining, you can see that, of course I have this. I actually don’t want it, but how about I be open to people helping me see how I have it. The worst fear of a white progressive is that we’re going to say something racist, but don’t you dare tell me I just said something racist!
But when you have a different paradigm then you’re just like, well, “thank you. That was quite a risk for you because I bet this generally doesn’t go that well when you try to point out white people’s unaware, unavoidable, racist patterns.”
It changes everything. It changes what you recognize it took for a person to point that out. If it’s another white person, they had to break with white solidarity. If it’s a person of color, there is an incredible risk across a history harm. But it’s a gift."
-Robin DiAngelo
As @onette stated, mock auditions are great venues for the type of feedback discussed. D attended a summer audition camp and was given written feedback from 10 schools at the end of the week. She was also given verbal feedback throughout the week. Apparently she’s not a great listener because she auditioned for the same school/ same adjudicator at Unifieds and the woman said something like “still using that song huh?” after she told D she should consider different material. I guess that was a missed opportunity 
@rickle1 I think sometimes kids…any performer, really…get a very clear song that they REALLY want to do because they LOVE it. It speaks to them and they just really want to use THAT song. And it’s hard to pull them off of it. Everyone has a favorite “something.” I think the best advice is to listen to others and try to pick songs that best fit your voice and type. If you get feedback from a director/adjudicator that a song isn’t the best choice for you, listen! But it’s hard to tell teens sometimes. Some lessons are learned the hard way, but that is the nature of learning and growing. You are going to make mistakes and that’s ok. That’s part of growing as an artist. What I tried to tell the kids I worked with is that each time you get in front of them throughout the season (in some cases, 3-4 times!), show them that you heard them and you take direction well by making those adjustments they suggested. Honestly, that is often tested in the audition room. Redirecting a song or monologue to see how flexible they are and how well they can listen and react is pretty common (and useful).
More bad news today but finally one piece of good news. My D got a no from Marymount (16th rejection) but a YES from SCAD!!! At last a BFA (Performing Arts) program!
In truth, D does not want the south. She refused to apply to any southern schools. She only did the SCAD audition as a walk-in at Chicago Unifieds on a whim because the visual arts aspect was really appealing and the people were so warm. It was an only-for-scholarship audition so it seemed like good practice in a low stakes environment. It is really not an MT program, though they are trying to build it. Anyway, beggars cannot be choosers so, if this is her only yes, she will go. I would be grateful for any info that any of you have on SCAD. For now, we are just celebrating having 1 yes in her column!
@QballMom So glad you posted these questions. I need this info too. My D has lots of Acting redirects and we have zero way to compare. So far she is still waiting on results but, if she is lucky enough to get an acceptance or two, I would like to have this info in my pocket.
@AnxiousNovice I have been following your journey and I am so happy for your D!!