Was it someone in this thread who said they heard Pace was looking for “edgy” students this year? Where did that info come from? My D got a callback and could be considered an “edgy” performer, but I’m interested in hearing more, if there is more info to share.
A few folks on the theatre forums have said that college decisions are not just about talent, but about casting for their shows the next 4 years. Isn’t an BFA program supposed to train for a career, not fill the needs of a college production? Certainly doesn’t feel like they are putting student first in those scenarios.
That’s my short rant, thank you.
@Runmama I was thinking the same thing. We are the ones paying quite a bit of money to make sure our kids get the training they want along with the education of a college degree. I realize there are shows to cast but that should not be the main priority. Some colleges do state that they are looking for students who are trainable, not perfect and that they are not auditioning for a show - I like that much better.
@rickle1 a saying ( ill probably butcher it) that I heard and liked is something like this process is about the DREAM ( BFA/BM, broadway, regional theater work, cruise ship etc…) and not really about the DREA M SCHOOL
It is telling that they feel they need to brag about that…
The schools cover this because they have “alternates” for each person offered a spot. So if that one person doesn’t accept their offer they just go to the alternate who is basically their #2 for that “type”. This is different and more specific than a generic “waitlist”.
Hey all, I wanted to comment on the statement I have been seeing about schools only accepting people based on their casting/show requirements. This is not really an accurate statement. Let me say first that my D has worked in BFA MT/Acting recruitment for the past 3+ years and I know several recruitment coordinators for BFA programs on this forum, so I do have a little insight. Realize that most of these schools are looking to create a working ensemble. That is more than just “casting for shows”. They need to have a diverse ensemble in order for any of their training to be put into practice. Can you imagine having to do scene work in class if all you have in your freshman class is ingenues and leading men? It just won’t work. There needs to be a diversity in type for classwork, and yes obviously shows, to be effective. And in order to choose their class they have to make hard decisions on which students will fill their desired ensemble makeup. They can only take so many of a particular type, regardless of how talented they are. The vast majority of students looking to get into any BFA program are talented. And the old adage is also true, there is always someone more talented than you. But what the students need to remember is regardless of talent, they are all unique and bring something different to the table. I would just remind your students to bring “your best you” into the room and then let it go, just as they will need to do in the professional audition rooms. They will land where they are supposed to, and they can get excellent training at any of these schools. It is all about what they put into it truly. I know this is a very tiring and trying process. I wish you all the best!
@stagedoormama Agreed and thank you. Incredibly well said.
I agree with @stagedoormama too in that I don’t think when the BFA programs are choosing applicants that they are casting shows. Rather, I think they are building a class of all types of students. It is not simply a talent contest to be admitted. This is not that different than applying to highly selective regular colleges where one of the values of the educational experience is the diverse make up of the class…diversity can be varied interests, backgrounds, race, gender, and with theater, could include body types, voice types, all sorts of “types”, strengths, and so on that add to the make up of the class, because your class or student body is a part of your overall education. Just like highly selective regular colleges don’t admit simply by test scores and GPAs, or with “cut offs” by numbers, BFA programs are not just taking the top talented kids, but are building a class. Perhaps you fit a need in that class and perhaps you don’t. Like with elite colleges, you do have to have the “goods” and so for BFA programs, you do have to have the requisite talent, but there are too many who have that and so they look at many things in order to build that class of people/artists.
@soozievt and @stagedoormama what is your thought about why these programs must be so small? I just think so many more kids could get the training they desire if the programs were 50-100 in size vs 8-18. Wondering about your thoughts.
Just wanted to send Break Legs Vibes to everyone auditioning this weekend!!
We saw this Saturday was particularly a popular Live Audition date across all schools so I will be imagining many a parent out there with me across the country holding binders, waters and snacks.
This will be D’s first round of Lives. Tough to tell but she seem ready. It makes me feel excited…Well, excited and scared ;).
Re class size. Kaitlyn Hopkins addressed this in a talk she had at CAP. In order for each student to get the appropriate class time to work on their craft, classes has to be this small to keep class duration reasonable. It is not scalable unless you build cohorts like BoCo or have different schools like NYU.
@CBSQandA This is just my opinion, and @soozievt has been around a lot longer than me and may have more insight, but I believe that many of the schools feel that due to the rigorous curriculum and personal attention it takes from instructors, having very large classes isn’t feasible for most of the colleges. Some such as NYU can take larger classes as they have the ability to split them up into smaller cohorts, and have the faculty to do so. Many colleges though, don’t have the ability to do so as they only have (and can afford) so many faculty members. There is so much one-on-one attention in these programs that I think the faculty feel they can only handle so many students at once.
As a mom to a freshman MT who has 16 students in her class, I am thrilled it is small. She gets more opportunities to be cast and perform as well as more individualized attention in her training Remember they are casting from a pool of 4 years. In addition, they get to know each student really well and can help with networking. My D just finished a reading of a new work on campus with the composer (they brought him in as well as the lead, a Helen Hayes award winning actor and alum) She also tells me the class is made up of diverse types, which is great because once again, there will be more opportunities to be cast!
So the schools really know what they’re doing as they build a class. There’s just so many talented kids out there, but remember there’s a lot of great programs too. Some you might never have heard of even!!! Keep an open mind and it will all work out in the end!!
@stagedoormama is absolutely spot on! As a director myself and as someone who has helped many of her “kids” make it to great colleges over the years, I can tell you that balancing the department is a must. It does extend to “casting shows,” but also to have enough of each type, vocal range, acting skill, dance capabilities, leading/character/other and THEN the diversity factor. When all is said and done, I tell my kids hoping to land a spot in ANY department, there is only room for 1-3 of you in most incoming classes. That excludes if they have excess “you” represented in sophomore, junior and senior classifications. There will be rejection. So, please don’t take it personally. Cast your net wide. Keep moving forward. You will be where you’re supposed to be. Find that “connection” with a department, faculty and environment that will nurture you and help you grow. That is what you are looking for. Not a name. So far, each of the two kids I am helping through this have already forged 3-4 strong relationships with schools with wonderful programs. From seeing them already at CAP and NTDA and now they will go to Unifieds and/or on-campus. I keep letting them know daily - don’t get your heart broken - feel GOOD there is interest!! But know at the end, it’s all about balance. And you know they like you, but they may not be able to use you. And that’s okay.
In terms of size of program, one thing I have read on this forum a lot is that some people think if the program is bigger, their kid is not going to get individual attention. I don’t agree with that. You have to look at the classroom size…how many are in the classroom, not how many are in a program. My kid went to NYU/Tisch and while there are more MT students in the MT program than some other programs, the class size in the classroom is still about 15 students and the individual attention is like a program that has 15 students who are in all the same classes. The difference is that at a larger program like the one at Tisch, there are more professors. Like with anything, there are pros and cons based on program size. But individualized attention is not really one of them if the classroom size is still small. But in a larger program, the student has a chance to work with more professors over four years and mix with more students. Some might like that. Some might prefer to have a group of 12 students be their cohort all four years (hopefully they like the other 11 kids) and work with just a few professors all four years.
@CBSQandA wrote:
I don’t work for a program so can’t answer directly from that standpoint. However, it costs money to build a larger program with more faculty that will be needed, more space, etc. But when you say that more kids could get the training they desire, I’m not sure that is a good thing or not. I mean even if more kids could attend a BFA in MT program, is there enough work for them all in the professional world? I doubt it. Perhaps the limitation of spots in a college program is sort of a first “cut” so to speak. On the other hand, one doesn’t need to attend a BFA program or even a BA program or major in theater/MT to work in this field. It’s certain a good path and one does get a college education, which I personally value, but it is not necessary in terms of jobs in the professional world of theater. I can think of a Broadway bound show my daughter is working on now, that has cast one of the leads with a young actress in her 20s who has been in two previous Broadway shows and I do not believe went to college. Then again, another show my D is working on, the majority of actors I can think of involved with it, have BFA degrees, but I haven’t checked every single one.
@soozievt oh I did not mean to imply that a smaller program is necessarily “better”. I myself am an alum of NYU Tisch - BFA in acting! I was in the Lee Strasberg Studio then switched to ETW. The studios have smaller class sizes and are VERY individualized. But schools like NYU and BOCO have a ton of resources, as well as an amazing number of performance opportunities. I don’t think many other schools can boast that, so a smaller class size is important to get the best training and opportunity for most students.
A few more thoughts on why most MT programs are typically very small.
Consider that the National Association of Schools of Theater (NAST) Accreditation Guidelines contain the following stipulations (among many other requirements):
Hence, to support a large program, many faculty members are required, and it is extremely difficult to get a faculty position funded at most schools, much less trying to add a Musical Theatre faculty member to the Fine Arts Department in an age of focus on STEM and professional training at many colleges.
Trying to get everyone into shows is not easy, especially if your department headcount goes beyond 60-100 (which is only 15-25 students per class). Mounting a major musical production is an expensive undertaking for colleges. First, you have to pay for rights/licensing. Then, you have to maintain a staff large enough or hire from outside to fill all the slots required: director, musical director, choreographer, technical director, sound engineer, rehearsal accompanist, show orchestra/band (or pay for a track), etc. You need a really good sound system with lots of expensive wireless mics and a professional sound engineer. Musicals typically also call for lots of costumes and wigs, extensive lighting, and frequently feature large, expensive sets, which increases costs. And so on and so forth. Ticket sales very rarely cover all these expenses.
Hence, trying to mount enough shows to give everyone decent opportunities is very difficult.
Two other complicating factors that I have heard many program heads mention are (a) the difficulties in maintaining a sufficiently large staff of qualified voice teachers to provide the required individual MT voice training and (b) getting enough slots available from the dance department for MT students in ballet, tap, and jazz classes (or hiring specialized dance instructors if the school does not have a dance department).
*Note: while not every theatre program is accredited by NAST (including many of the more “famous” schools), I think most programs follow the guidelines stipulated.
For more information on accreditation for theatre programs, see https://nast.arts-accredit.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/2019/05/NAST-Handbook-2019-20-Current-08-30-2019.pdf*
@EmsDad all good points. And something else to think about…some of these schools cannot even showcase all their seniors. I have been told that at Tisch and OKCU, you have to audition to be in the showcase. That would really sting if you were not chosen.
On the topic of class selection being about “casting”. Several mentioned the diversity of the class and program for training which I think is very true. One statement from my son’s audition tour sticks in my head that I want to share. At the end of the audition day at BW before leaving, the students were told that if they were not selected to not take it personally - that if they’re best 6 auditions were tall brunette tenors, they would only be able to take one. The reason: it would be a disservice to you to have to constantly compete against 5 others of your type for opportunities in the program.
They do have your student’s best interest at heart when selecting a diverse cohort. It might not feel like it when they open that “no”, but it’s true.