The classic debate: Private, expensive dream School versus Inexpensive Public

College Search & Selection
101

<p>My problem: I got into NYU, my dream school since I was a child, but I'm sure you're all aware of how expensive it is. My parents aren't giving me much and refuse to take out a loan. They offerred me 10K a year in scholarship money, but I'm still left with about 35K a year to cover.</p>

<p>So my questions are:
1. Has anyone here had much luck with bargaining to increase scholarship offers--Pace gave me 15K, so should I ask them to match it?</p>

<ol>
<li>Would it be worth it to go to NYU and have debt... or just go to CCNY where I can get a full scholarship? (I'm from Louisiana, not New York, but there's no way I'm staying in LA) I really do NOT want to go to CCNY, but it may be my only option.</li>
</ol>

<p>Thoughts? Help? I believe my school college counselor is going to call NYU, pitch the idea posed in my first question, and then explain my situation with Hurricane Katrina (aka completely screwed over). So hopefully they'll give me a little bit more.</p>

<p>If not, I did apply for other private scholarships, but I don't know if I'll get much. Any other ideas?</p>

102

<p>hvccgolf - Your point was exactly the point the financial lady was making on the C-Span forum. You cannot default on these loans, but the loaning institutions are more than willing to "defer" them. This can often double or triple the original amount you borrowed without your knowledge.</p>

<p>noccalaura28 - my nephew was accepted to CalTech, Northwestern, and WashU. His father has called the financial aid office to attempt to negotiate with no luck. They are very polite and say they would love for his son to attend, but they look at these things very closely and that is all they will offer. </p>

<p>Back to the C-Span coverage of the Senate committee on paying for college -one expert on the panel even got into the discussion of how much society should be responsible for paying for the education of others (the case being that an educated society, is a better society). She said, ultimately, it is the responsibility of the one attending the college to pay for their education.</p>

103

<p>noccalaura: Are NYU and CCNY you're only choices? Coming from NY, NYU would be the clear choice over CCNY, IMO. The NYC colleges are not as selective as NYU. Hence, the applicant pool is different. A lot also depends on your major: which college has a stronger dept? Have you visited both schools??? Do you have a third choice school to consider?</p>

104

<p>noccalaura -</p>

<p>how about Pace? i don't know much about them except they sent S stuff in the mail (he's a jr). is the overall cost lower there, enuf to make it work? maybe you could compromise. what about the housing? if they have dorms maybe you could get a job as an RA the last three years and that could pay room and board to lower costs more.</p>

<p>now, please tell me you applied to at least one la school so as to assure your TOPS eligibility. you can go away for one year and still come back and get TOPS as a sophomore is it looks like finances just won't work out your way.</p>

<p>what is your talent? i know you don't want to hear this, but LSU has a first rate Music dept, esplly vocal performance, but really everything. i've spent some time on the cc music threads and saw one kid whose Interlochan teacher told him to go to LSU cause that's where the best prof for his instrument was. it's not always NYC, you know.</p>

<p>LSU routinely puts kids in the Met Opera regionals, sometimes finals, got one girl at the Met now with a contract who graduated a year ago. i know someone who's a NATS judge who says the LSU kids are just as good as the NYC schools' kids at the competitions up there.</p>

<p>the LSU theater dept is great too. the head of it is some lady who's done casting in both NY and LA (the other la) and she spends summers commuting between NY and LA casting movies and staying "in the biz". she has recruited lots of talent to the program.</p>

<p>did you spend even a few moments considering a local alternative? if not, see if it's not to late to secure your TOPS, go to a NY school if you must, and check out a local option if you need to transfer for financial reasons. also check out the RA job thing. it's a great way to knock $10k off your costs and lots of people never consider it.</p>

105

<p>ps - i understand your post Katrina desire to split, but you know there's a whole Tulane thread of people trying to go to nola. sometimes the grass only looks greener on the other side of the fence.</p>

106

<p>"I would hate to regret not going to my dream school for the rest of my life. I say, try it for a year then transfer if you dont like it. Easier said than done, I know."</p>

<p>That is what I did -- 29 years ago. I got into Dartmouth with its huge $8,000 per year tuition, went there, and I really didn't like it. It was my dream school but the dream was just a figment of my imagination. I transferred to Berkeley after one year, where I had also been accepted as a freshman, and paid $750 per year for the next 4 years (I was on an extended "no more than 13 credits a quarter" plan).</p>

<p>Your dream school might not be all what you make it out to be. But the only way to know, to really know, is to go there. Is it worth it? A year or two will tell you. If it's not, your debt is just 1/4 or 1/2 of what it could have been. That amount remaining might still be huge, but it will likely be manageable. So, what did you buy with that money? Peace of mind, freedom from regret... And remember, it's not about the degree, it's about the journey.</p>

<p>Although I left my private dream school after one year, it was not a mistake to go there. My year there was one of the most formative years of my life. It was the best thing I could have done. As was transferring to my home state school. </p>

<p>If you (your S / D) really, REALLY want(s) to go to that private school, and you can't see how you can afford it -- maybe some pieces will come together in a year or two. And maybe not. But no matter, I think the money (and debt) you commit to for one or two years will be worth it.</p>

107

<p>hkstrpd, peace of mind and freedom from regret are huge positives. My only worry would be that the financial "awards" from the schools you had previously turned down would be gone and you would be paying much more for your backups than you might have originally.</p>

108

<p>From anarchy99:</p>

<p>"If you did not slack off (i mean reserach, achievements...) in your "name brand school", then you should be able to get a job of about $50,000 per year in a popular field</p>

<p>thats 4166 $/month
which means you will have 2166$/month to live on."</p>

<p>Don't forget to account for state and local taxes, as well as FICA and most companies require you to pay a portion of your healthcare. Let's say this adds up to 30% of your gross salary. Now you're at about $2900 a month. Do you want to save for retirement? Financial planners would suggest you put away 10% of your income - you're at $2500 a month. Subtract your $2000 loan and you now have $500 a month for rent, utilities (start by adding up your cell and cable bills - then factor in electricity and fuel) and food. What about transportation?</p>

<p>And when do you start saving for a house or kids?</p>

<p>Please do not underestimate the impact of large amounts of debt.</p>

109

<p>Someone noted,"I would hate to regret not going to my dream school for the rest of my life. I say, try it for a year then transfer if you dont like it. Easier said than done, I know"</p>

<p>Response: Imagine how your dream will turn out having to spend as much as 20-25% of your total take-home pay for 10-15 years simply paying off college loans! Imagine not saving anything for 10-15 years! Ignoring your dream school for the moment: imagine how this will affect your life!!</p>

<p>If you can take a program of study at your in-state university, you should absolutely do it UNLESS you have gobs of financial backing, they don't provide your program, or you got great scholarship money.</p>

110

<p>taxguy,</p>

<p>Well, I think you have to consider the PV of the investment and then consider the FV as well. I mean, I 90% agree with you, but I think that you have to consider the amortization of the cost and all that if you really want to be technical. This is of course far beyond anything the average 17-year-old is going to do, but parents ought to consider doing it for them.</p>

<p>In the long-run, I think that people should look at the marginal cost, opportunity cost, and EV of the investment, and see which one offers the most ROI. But I'm weird like that.</p>

111

<p>I ended up being accepted at four UCs and two out-of-state (opposite side of the country, actually) private schools.. I am choosing Johns Hopkins over UCLA and UCSD ($2000 a year), both of which are reasonably cheaper. And I too am upper middle class, meaning I have gotten nothing but loans. $50k a year in loans, in fact.</p>

<p>So I'm going to end up with $200k by the time I finish undergrad.. and put that off until I finish med school (which will be another how much?!).</p>

<p>But I chose it because.. there were so many more opportunities for me there, I think. Also, I wanted to experience something new. And.. quite frankly, I'd know too many people at UCLA (;</p>

<p>But I think it'll be worth it in the end, that $200k debt. I'll be able to pay it back someday, I think. (:</p>

<p>Really -- I think the price doesn't matter. Unless you're getting a great deal on a wonderful education comparable to that of another, more expensive school, you have to consider more where you'll be happier and where you'll learn more. You can deal with the money issue later.</p>

112

<p>theantithesisof,</p>

<p>Honestly, I feel that you made a poor decision financially. $200K a year is a lot of money. Think about it. In many parts of the country, that's half a house! What are you getting at JHU that UCLA won't offer? Besides, "knowing people" at UCLA won't matter. It's a big school. You'll almost never see them anyway.</p>

<p>I can't say that I agree with your decision from a financial POV, but good luck with your future. I would have considered the interest and cost of the loan, if I were you...it's far more than $200K in the long run.</p>

113

<p>I did consider it, actually. $200k is an estimate, but I know I'll be paying far more due to high interest and whatnot.. however, my parents are completely supportive and I'm looking for whatever I can do to reduce the cost. I'm going to try to talk to their fin. aid department when I go visit next week.</p>

<p>There are many reasons I chose JHU over UCLA, most of which are probably due to my own personal preferences, but the main thing is that I feel as if I will go further and be able to work harder at JHU, given the environment, the resources, etc. And I really don't regret my decision at all -- the school feels right to me, and I think I can be happy there.</p>

<p>(I also like Descant's post on p. 6)</p>

114

<p>what do you think about going out of state for a public education? i'm from wisconsin, and right now hold berkeley to be my top choice over carnegie mellon, USC, and madison (in-state)-although i'm not getting much aid at all from any school. although this would probably result in taking out loans for a fairly large amount ($80k+), look at the stats: usnews has berkeley undergrad engineering at #2 (tied with stanford, behind mit) and undergrad business at #3 (behind upenn and mit). seems logical to me...</p>

115

<p>My parents will pay 15k per year if I want to go to Columbia, and I would take the rest on loan. On the other hand, they will pay me $150/week directly into my accounts if I take my full ride to UNC-Chapel Hill.</p>

<p>I have said for the last three years that I would never go to Chapel Hill, I applied to the scholarship on a whim. Columbia has been my dream school for the last three years.</p>

<p>What happens to a dream deferred? Of course, though, I'm taking the money.</p>

116

<p>^ hari_ananth, I just want to caution you not to base your decisions on rankings, particularly when both colleges are great. If it were a #10 school vs. say, a #200 school, that would be a different case. But Madison is a fantastic school.</p>

117

<p>CT201Dad - thanks for doing the math. The numbers do not lie, and are sobering. </p>

<p>This discussion has lots verbiage from students such as "dream deferred", "dream school", and "my parents won't consider what I want" and other subjective terms, but I cannot imagine a bigger buzz-kill than having loan huge loan payments coming out of school.</p>

<p>You students out there who think $50K or $60K for your first job seems like alot of money - study CT201Dad's numbers carefully. Those are cold, hard facts, and you don't need an engineering degree from Berkely or anywhere else to appreciate them. yes, $60K is alot of salary for a 23 yearold, but not when you are starting life and need clothes, a car, and apartment some furniture, etc. I guarantee you'll consume most, if not all, of that salary. </p>

<p>For those that take on massive debt to get college done, the "real" crunch time for your dream will come when you are about 24, have been working for 2 years, find it dull and unrewarding (a common and understandable situation for most young people), and start thinking about graduate school as the "next step". (That is exactly the course that my first 2 years in the post-college world took on.) But $50K, or $100K in debt, with huge monthly payments, may keep that door nailed shut - you simply won't have the cash flow to take the hiatus from the working world. </p>

<p>In a prior post I spoke of being in a position of flexibility, and being able to take risks, early in your career (if you wish). Heavy school debt will take away most of that. So when you are doing your personal arithmetic on this issue, try to place yourself at age 24 or 25 with few options but to soldier on in a field, or job, that you may find disappointing, because of monthly pauyments of $500, or $1000, or whatever.</p>

<p>For those of you who must chase the dream, with debt as the fuel, I appreciate your passion and understand your feelings. But make that decision with a clear head and an understanding of the costs in cash and options down the road. For most of you, the debt/no debt question is one of the first huge decisions of your young lives.</p>

118

<p>Northeastmom you make a very important point that most students are not even thinking about at this point. It is one that concerns me as well.
If you happen to meet that wonderful someone who turns out to be your spouse and may also have taken on great debt to go to that dream school ...imagine what paying back both those loans will do to your early life together.
I, as a parent who sacraficed greatly to have my children get out of school w/o out loans am very concerned that they may end up saddled with someone elses debt who did not consider the impact on their future entering into college. When my # 1 son tells me about how much everyone he knows in his graduating class owes it really worries me. I haven't a clue what his girlfriend who he met at school owes, if anything, but I guess that will be something for later thought ...Maybe?</p>

119

<p>hvccgolf: As you say, it is about options, bang for the buck, unanticipated changes in goals, personal situation etc. This is not just for the kid but for the family that may be doing the financing. The most difficult thing for young folks and even older ones is trying to view the future as being different from the present and antipating change. I have relatives who found out their dream jobs werenot so good. Now want to go back to school but already have big debt loads. Others would like to take a year off, by a house etc, but can't. When they started school and took on loans they were sure what they wanted and could not anticipate the changes that occured.</p>

120

<p>
[quote]
For those that take on massive debt to get college done, the "real" crunch time for your dream will come when you are about 24, have been working for 2 years, find it dull and unrewarding (a common and understandable situation for most young people), and start thinking about graduate school as the "next step". (That is exactly the course that my first 2 years in the post-college world took on.) But $50K, or $100K in debt, with huge monthly payments, may keep that door nailed shut - you simply won't have the cash flow to take the hiatus from the working world.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Well, to be fair, you can defer loan repayments. I did for grad school.</p>