The classic debate: Private, expensive dream School versus Inexpensive Public

College Search & Selection
141

<p>Thanks for the advice, guys.</p>

<p>For the record, I have no doubts whatsoever that I would get a quality education at my public university. It's mostly the cult of the student body that I don't like (conservative, sports-crazy, BIG Greek life, party-hard, get-caught-up-in-the-mass-of-amazingness-that-is-the-school, etc.). Since it's a state school, most people will come with friends and roommates - I think that about 10 out of my class of 120 will attend, for example. Also, as far as classroom-experience goes, they say that they really enjoy their lectures, but for the most part they say that they don't really care about student-professor relationships. At the small schools I've visited, the classes are often capped at 30 or so students, and there are no TAs. I simply prefer that learning style, having grown up with it.</p>

<p>I plan to visit and sit in on classes this month, so I hope to get a clearer image of the school then.</p>

142

<p>The state U I attended was pretty big and sports crazy (big D1 football program, though the basketball team was pretty crummy...). Freshman year everyone lived in dorms. Sophomore year I joined a frat. Junior year I went abroad. Senior year I did the apartment sharing gig, having outgrown the frat. I ended up knowing jocks and greeks and geeks and freaks...</p>

<p>I was always able to avoid the massive classes with multiple sections. </p>

<p>And there were kids from my high school there as well, and managed to avoid them also.</p>

<p>As someone said in another thread somewhere on this web site, where ever you go, you'll find a small circle of friends and, if you show interest, you'll make the connections with the professors. The professors I really liked I connected with; others I thought were rather pompous, including one who was world-renowned...my most interesting prof was a die hard, card-carrying communist...at the time I was pretty liberal, but as he articulated his worldview, I found a number of flaws in the reasoning (Marx, BTW, got it wrong on the first page of the Communist Manifesto) and he set me on a path to ultimately getting an MBA. Education is funny that way...</p>

<p>Good luck with your decision</p>

143

<p>My sister-in-law borrowed for her 5-6 years of private school($150K+). She paid them all off now, after working maybe less than 5 years. So I think it depends on your major, but it's doable, it depends on how determine you are in paying off your educational debt. Inflation will naturally reduce the debt vs potential income. BTW, she is a pharmacist.
I'll go for it, if it's really your dream school, you can always transfer after your first year if you don't like. You can't play safe all the time.</p>

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<p>As an adult I have friends who talk about the school they could've gone to...and some, frankly, never seem to get over it. Where you go to college will come up at times all throughout your life. If you will always regret not going to say, Harvard...then, GO! Some experiences are, shall we say, Priceless! You just need to decide how YOU feel about it. I guess I have always felt that when I hear people saying they could've gone somewhere...well, you didn't go...so get over it and move on! If you won't be able to move on...and, I am talking 55 year old people here...then, go! $80,000/year is a lot of $$ but it only ends up being $2,000/year for 40 years...I think that my friend would gladly pay $2,000/year to have had the experience. And, in his day, it would be only about $100/year. $80,000 will someday seem reasonable...hard to believe, but true. Good Luck!
nice response foto2gem</p>

145

<p>I'm turning down my dream school (Hopkins) for my state school (University of MD - College Park). I received a full tuition scholarship at MD so it will cost 8k a year rather than about 50k a year. I'll sacrifice the name and save that money for grad school! :)</p>

146

<p>My son is in the throes of deciding between NYU / CAS and UC Davis. I would greatly appreciate feedback from some of the thoughtful people who have posted here and have been so generous with their advice. If anyone has comparative information, your opinions are welcome.</p>

<p>We live in a small, semi-rural town near UC Berkeley and our flexible and open-minded son is undecided, loves almost every subject, is leaning towards a business career and away from science. He was only firm about wanting to stay in California and be in a big city. That meant Los Angeles. Shockingly, his LA schools rejected him. UCLA, USC, Pomona. "No" from Berkeley, too. Good grief. He only applied to one East Coast school, pretty much as an afterthought - NYU, and was accepted. We went to visit last week. He has been to NYC many times and is comfortable there.</p>

<p>He was accepted at 3 UCs: Davis, Santa Barbara, Santa Cruz. There are other choices including some generous scholarship offers from assorted liberal arts colleges. All safety schools. He is considering only at Davis and NYU. (One weak sophmore semester trimmed back his stats. No problem with work ethic.)</p>

<p>The two choices couldn't be more different. Rural with strong campus life. Uber-urban with little campus life. Not much hand-holding or guidance through lower division at either. Both have very strong specialties, but our son is not currently involved in any as he is undecided. And then there's the money.....</p>

<p>I am a working mom, single-handedly paying tuition for 2 students. Other college-age son is a UC junior, thinking he's headed for med school. After private school and UC, I'm up to 10 years of tuition so far. Boy, am I tired! </p>

<p>Like the poster hkstrpd, I also made serious life-style adjustments to help pay for my children's education and don't regret a moment. But, I am 60 years old, and still work 12+ hour days to keep all boats floating. Paying for 2 UCs still totals close to $50k per year. NYU + 1 UC = $75k. Ouch - No savings left for grad school or my day-to-day retirement. I am very fortunate to have a savings pot and am happy to pay for my hardworking sons' colleges, but it's finite and we'd like it create as much value in terms of education and experience as possible. And, yes, I agree that future job earnings are not the only measure of value. </p>

<p>hkstrpd, you wrote movingly about taking the risk or taking the regret when you followed your dream school to Dartmouth for a year then transferred. NYU is not my son's dream school, but from his heart, he feels that going to Davis is ordinary and seamless - no leap - very similar to his high school, just larger - and he'll regret not leaping. UC Davis feels like going down the block and continuing a familiar life style of small California town, friendly community. Just larger classes and more subjects. He's a strong, responsible citizen, level-headed, who was expecting to blast off with a major change and a wide range of stimulae and opportuntities. </p>

<p>I regret that his only strong choice is NYU. But even after all the negative posts about CAS, I still feel like urging him to go for a year then transfer home if he doesn't move towards Stern or Steinhardt. </p>

<p>My son is likely to chose to protect me from overwork and spending all our savings. He will most likely chose to live with his disappointment and make the best of it at Davis without complaint. I love him for that, but he is also ready to work hard at challenging new experiences and I want to support him in getting the most experiential education and mind-opening opportunities as possible. </p>

<p>This is a long post. Thank you for reading. Any comments or suggestions?</p>

147

<p>Distance shouldn't be a problem. Just don't go home during the holidays. Instead, stay on campus and work and hang out with the international students.</p>

148

<p>From CT2010Dad : </p>

<p>"Don't forget to account for state and local taxes, as well as FICA and most companies require you to pay a portion of your healthcare. Let's say this adds up to 30% of your gross salary. Now you're at about $2900 a month. Do you want to save for retirement? Financial planners would suggest you put away 10% of your income - you're at $2500 a month. Subtract your $2000 loan and you now have $500 a month for rent, utilities (start by adding up your cell and cable bills - then factor in electricity and fuel) and food. What about transportation?</p>

<p>And when do you start saving for a house or kids?</p>

<p>Please do not underestimate the impact of large amounts of debt."</p>

<p>I understand the impact of debt, but let me say this - we are a family of four with a total household income of about $50,000 a year. In my opinion, if you discount the need to buy a house withing 7-10 years of graduation (rent...) and you hold off on marriage, then $2500 is more than enough per month. </p>

<p>Cell phone = $10 a month prepaid (i'm in high school and run my own businees in this amount.)</p>

<p>healthcare - don't drink and drive safe - you'll not need it</p>

<p>here's my breakup
700 (rent) + 700 (food/clothing - yes, this is more than enough for 4 people if you know how to save) + 300 (savings for emergency) + 300 (other requirements) = $2000 per month</p>

<p>assuming you have a starting salary of $ 40K per annum, thats 3300$/month</p>

<p>you can pay 1000 to 1300 per month towards loans</p>

<p>But first every student should look withihn and truthfully answer this question "The college I go to does not matter as much as my personal drive. Am I driven - am I burning to succeed?"</p>

<p>if yes, then you won't be on 40K/yr for very long.</p>

<p>An please think about money when selecting a major - this world runs on money...
If you want to go in for a less lucrative major, then go for the cheapest school.</p>

<p>Saving for retirement can start after I pay off my loans.</p>

149

<p>Sharpielove,
The nice thing about large state schools is their diversity. Not everyone will fit the profile you describe, and you WILL meet people who share your interests. As someone else pointed out, you don't need to find hundreds of these folks -- a dozen will do very well. It is also relatively easy to avoid your high school classmates, especially if you don't request one of them as a roommate. Many large universities have special-interest housing options that might be right for you. If you choose your major and courses wisely, you can also avoid many of the huge impersonal lectures and courses taught by foreign TAs.</p>

150

<p>healthcare - don't drink and drive safe - you'll not need it</p>

<p>No, no, and no. Please disregard the advice of this high school student. Everyone needs health insurance. The safest and most reponsible drivers can be broadsided by intoxicated judgment-proof illegal immigrants, facing months of hospital bills and financial ruin. Not to mention that cancer happens to all ages.</p>

151

<p>Christiebj: I gather from your post that NYU will cost an additional $25k/year. I would consider backing off of that commitment. Perhaps familiarity breeds discontent, but I am not a fan of NYU. NYU does not do well with financial aid and there are lots of extra costs - and distractions - associated with living in NYC. Due to the location, NYU has done really well with attracting students. I am not sure that the academics really match the selectivity.</p>

152

<p>"Please disregard the advice of this high school student. Everyone needs health insurance."</p>

<p>If you feel the need so strong, you should get off your high horse and look around -there are hundreds of agencies and non-profit organizations in every state to help out people in need, especially with insurance. Look around.</p>

<p>"intoxicated judgment-proof illegal immigrants" - please don't make sweeping generalizations like this.</p>

153

<p>Years ago, I attended a huge state school in California. The required classes were often so packed with students, they'd be held in an auditorium where the professor looked like a speck in the distance. Then we'd be rounded up, divided into still significantly large groups, and handed off to a teaching assistant for discussions. Sometimes this TA would be decent, at other times, not so much. Some of my fellow students were bright and intellectually stimulating, but many others simply counted the minutes until class was out. </p>

<p>At age 18-19, I was not mature enough to make the most of this situation. I was too intimidated to speak up in front of dozens or even hundreds of people, and my professors would not have recognized my name or face on a bet. As a "community," the campus was sprawling and felt impersonal; students did not get to know one another in a broad, inclusive sense. Plenty of these students were commuters--as is often the case with large schools--making a sense of "community" even more difficult to foster. After junior year I gave up, left school, and got a job. By the time I returned to college 15 years later--to another large univeristy--I had grown up quite a bit and was able to adapt to this learning environment, and the education I received that time around was excellent. But, at the same time, I saw so many younger students looking lost, disinterested, bewildered, much as I must have appeared all those years ago.
Bravo to those teens who are able to thrive in and reap the benefits/opportunities of a large school setting! A good education is there for the asking and at a comparatively bargain price, but it takes a certain type of student to find it. As for us, we'll be going into debt to finance LAC educations for our daughters. (They'll undoubtedly inherit some of this debt.)I suspect they're more like me than not, and I wouldn't want them to go through what I did during my first shot at college.</p>

154

<p>Wow,Anarchy - pretty harsh words. I know this isn't the point of this thread, but the poster was right on target re: everyone needs health insurance. Perhaps you should look around, and see how Medicaid and other social programs have been drastically cut in most states over the past several years. Until we have something approaching Universal health coverage in this country, having health insurance is extremely important. This is something most young people who have been blessed with good health and/or good medical care all of there lives don't think about until they need it.</p>

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<p>"Wow,Anarchy - pretty harsh words."</p>

<p>well, "intoxicated judgment-proof illegal immigrants", made me, well, really angry.</p>

156

<p>Ok here's the deal:</p>

<p>Two great choices for college. I got accepted into William and Mary and awarded with a spot in the James Monroe Scholarship Program. That comes with an award equal to the full cost of tuition plus a $3000 research grant.
So basically, college for free. And my parents said they would buy me a nice car. </p>

<p>Second choice. Duke University, my family is upper middle class, so we do not qualify for financial aid, but we cannot pay the whole $45,000 per year. So by age 21, I would be potentially $80,000 in debt. But it's the 8th best school in the nation and has the name recognition I need to get accepted into graduate school.</p>

<p>So now what?</p>

157

<p>I got into USC UCSD & NYU</p>

<p>I got a scholarship from UCSD and i'm paying less than 300 per yr
USC & NYU i have not received financial aid packages yet
which one should I go? my parents want me to go to the privates jus cuz of the prestige of those two schools.
Applying for school was one thing.. now deciding where I want to go is another hard task
my family is definitely poor, and probably we are gonna get loans to pay for the cost if i go to the privates..
but is it worth it?</p>

158

<p>Kbranch, samtheclever - have you visited the schools? Kbranch, both are very good schools, both highly ranked (W&M is 31), but they do have very different feels to them. Sam... UCSD would be 'lower ranked' than the other two generally, but...</p>

<p>What do you hope to get out of college? Is there a major or program that particularly appeals to you at one of the colleges? Look closely at what each is good at and why they got the ranking they did - a school with a high general ranking that doesn't have what you are looking for would probably rank pretty low on your specific criteria.</p>

<p>Are you planning on grad school? If you work hard and get good grades, any of the schools will prepare you pretty well. In which case, would the $$$$ you save pay for grad school? </p>

<p>Congrats on your choices - and good luck with your decisions.</p>

159

<p>well, "intoxicated judgment-proof illegal immigrants", made me, well, really angry.</p>

<p>Good. It should, because if you don't have health insurance, you need to pray that you never meet one in a head-on collision. Welcome to the Real World, where responsible adults need to think about such things before they decide that they don't need health insurance because they, themselves, always drive responsibly. Large metro areas are full of illegal immigrants with limited big-city driving skills and no assets with which to satisfy any legal judgment against them.</p>

160

<p>But it's the 8th best school in the nation and has the name recognition I need to get accepted into graduate school.</p>

<p>So now what?</p>

<p>Forget about the rankings. Take the W&M offer and run with it. You will have wonderful research opportunities with the professors who will help you get into great graduate programs. My husband ran the graduate admissions committee in his department this year (700 applications for 40 slots), and I can tell you that you don't get into grad school just because of the name recognition of your undergrad college. A glowing letter of recommendation from a professor for whom you have done high-level research will definitely set you apart from the scads of applicants with good grades and GREs from "name" colleges who didn't take advantage of these sorts of opportunities.<br>
If you got this W&M offer, you clearly have the brains and motivation to do well in college, which is what you will need to get into grad school. William and Mary has a great reputation here in the DC area. If you're still not convinced, then contact a few professors in the dept you're interested in at both schools, and ask about their track record in getting students into graduate programs.</p>