“What happened to one’s ancestors 200 years ago has little bearing on the quality of life today. What matters are the opportunities available today.”
@hebegebe – Really? You really think that what happened to Africans brought to the US in chains 200 years ago has little bearing on African Americans’ experience today? So exactly when did racism, prejudice, blatant discrimination and violence against African Americans end? Because I think I must have missed that…
There is a proverb that a family can go from rags to riches to rags in three generations. This means what happened lo many generations ago has little bearing on your life today.
SMH. Just SMH.
There is a proverb that a family can go from rags to riches to rags in three generations. This means what happened lo many generations ago has little bearing on your life today.<<
[/QUOTE]
Proverb = fact? No.
“So then why would that “average ignorant person” care what yale students and faculty decide to do…”
Agreed. They don’t. So don’t kid yourself that it makes some grand statement that will alter how everyday Joe feels about racism.
“Why is it anyone’s business EXCEPT the folks who actually are on that campus.
They live and work there. It’s their call.”
Fully agreed. Yale is a private university; it is fully their call whether they decide to change the name or not. They needn’t answer to any of us (well, those of you who are alums and parents, perhaps, but not those of us who have no such claim).
“And, I don’t think you necessarily have to choose between small acts, such as renaming a hall, to larger acts such as holding inequitable housing/lending practices etc accountable. Are we incapable of dealing with a multitude of issues at many levels?”
I don’t think it’s wise to “waste” resources, be they money, time, effort or popular support on the small fish when there are bigger fish to catch. Obviously others feel differently. That’s cool. I just think that on the 1-10 scale of “things prohibiting black people from fully sharing in the American Dream,” this pales compared to policing issues, educational issues, racism in hiring and housing, lack of access to health care, etc. You are of course free to think that solving the Calhoun naming problem is higher priority than all of thee.
I don’t think what happened in the past has no bearing on the present, especially because – as Ta Nehisi Coates has shown to such effect-- systematic discrimination of the most pernicious kind continued well past the age of slavery.
That doesn’t mean every attempt at “reparation” is necessary, or even just, although I do support affirmative action, as well as diversity initiatives that seek out talented candidates from underrepresented backgrounds. It also doesn’t mean that a community or an individual doesn’t, at a certain point, have to accept a level of responsibility or can’t assert a level of agency.
To the (large) extent to which problems in the black community are still caused or worsened by discrimination, continuing problems like vast inequities in the educational and justice systems have a much more devastating effect than the fact that there are fewer African-Americans with multi-generational wealth, let alone that John C. Calhoun’s name remains on a building in Yale.
I do, however, think Calhoun’s name should be removed – although I don’t think Princeton should change the name of the Wilson school, or that Harvard Law should have changed its seal. Do I think it is one of the major issues of our day? No. But John C. Calhoun – who many Yale students, I imagine, have heard of by the time they arrive on campus – was a man who is primarily remembered for his support for slavery and early secessionist views. That isn’t true of most other figures who have fallen under the ire of campus activists.
People might be a lot more sympathetic to attempts to rename Calhoun if a) campus activists didn’t dilute their cause with a lot of sillier complaints and b) if protesters might keep the issue in proper perspective, and not act as if a name on a dorm is an act of aggression that causes them constant pain.
Looks like we should add “naming czar” to the cabinet. Every generation we could rename everything.
Can we rename Calhoun…Simone Biles College? 
》》Proverb = fact? No.《《
Coming from the person who can speak for 99.9% of some segment of Americans?
》》 You really think that what happened to Africans brought to the US in chains 200 years ago has little bearing on African Americans’ experience today? 《《
The attitudes of people today affect African American lives today. Slavery has been around for thousands of years and affected more people than African Americans. Does the grudge against its existence have to last as long as the slavery did for the effects to be outlived?
And if we’re so self righteous about slaveowners, are you ready to stop buying phones and computers? http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/are-your-gadgets-built-by-slave-labour-half-of-big-tech-firms-ignorant-of-supply-chains-9420290.html
“Looks like we should add “naming czar” to the cabinet. Every generation we could rename everything.”
Well, except this has absolutely zero to do with any government intervention or mandates to rename anything, so I’m guessing that was just an unrelated attempt at a political slur you wanted to throw in.
Now, if Yale wanted to appoint a naming czar and rename everything on their campus every year, is it really your place to object? I might find it a waste of time / resources but ultimately it ain’t my time and resources.
Do students at Yale ever have to study? How do they have time for some of these protests? Get a job or volunteer for a needy charity you have so much excess energy. Renaming campus buildings or dictating how other people can or cannot dress for Halloween are just not important causes in my opinion. If I were a student there, I would probably wear an unfavorable costume (like one of the free sombreros I have gotten from yummy mexican restaurants) just to make the point that, who cares? It’s Halloween! Be friendly and have fun!
(Last Halloween, a few boys at my son’s school went dressed as girls from a local private girls’ HS. Wigs, makeup, uniform skirts, purses, etc. Some of the boys date girls from that school. It was hilarious. But, some at Yale or other colleges might find that sexist? Would they protest?)
The right to free speech and opinions is of course important, but inviting calm, intelligent debate and seeking an understanding of the historical context of issues and famous historical figures seem more important goals for supposedly intelligent students. For example, I would want my child to feel comfortable expressing conservative fiscal views in college without fear. I would not want him to be egged if he wanted to attend a Donald Trump speech on campus, and certainly not at the $70K annual price I am paying now for colege. And - oh horror - maybe he actuallly believes in the relevance of the Ten Commandments and would like to admit that he is not an aetheist in a class discussion. However, I am not sure anymore if it’s safe to take an opposing view with certain kids and professors on certain campuses these days. And, actually, opposition can be scary outside college campuses as well. Just ask police officers.
We all need to promote civil conversation about opposing issues. And let’s not try to rewrite all of history. Having lived all over the USA, the confederate flag was always just an old, historic flag to me, until last year. I never thought much anout it, and I actually think it’s still just a relic of the past. If racists use it as a symbol, we need to focus our dislike for those people and not the silly flag itself.
We can all find things to hate and protest, but there seem to be so many other needy causes that are worthy of our time.
I guess I am an action person, not an ideas/protestor type. Tutor children who need. Collect food and prepare it for homeless people. Build houses for people through Habitat for Humanity. Take care of animals at a shelter. Raise money for scholarships. Worry less about the name of your school or Halloween costumes, and focus more on actual problems.
I was thinking about the same. Maybe these social activists should spend their energy on the local community. Demand Yale to reallocate money promised to “desegregate” faculty and build safe spaces on campus towards summer camps for New Haven youth. Forfeit their summer trips to far away destinations and spend summers in New Haven working in these camps.
@MOMANDBOYSTWO You obviously are not a member of an oppressed group - so you don’t quite understand the meaning and effect symbols can have on people who have feared for their lives and are fighting for equality … some symbols may be silly to you but have quite a devastating and demeaning effect on those who have been oppressed.
Would swastikas be appropriate to sport on Halloween?
Just because you aren’t effected by symbols doesn’t mean that others aren’t …
@MOMANDBOYSTWO
Here ya go! Enlighten yourself!
@MOMANDBOYSTWO You clearly know nothing about Yale.
Students there study incredibly hard, are not hostile to religion, span the political spectrum and engage in lively and respecful debates. They also dress in extremely clever costumes on Halloween and attend a midnight organ concert. And as @tonymom mentioned, many are extremely active in helping others through numerous campus programs.
Sure, there is some political correctness (on many or most college campuses) and renaming a building is a bit trivial. But you must understand that news outlets relish shocking viewers with a snippet of an outrageous protest. These do not accurately depict the university as a whole.
@pickpocket You speak well and rationally on behalf of Yale. I have no affiliation with Yale, because it didn’t meet my desires nor the academic desires of my kids (engineering), but I definitely explored it in my day, and I respect the school. My concern that colleges have shifted excessively to the left without maintaining a healthy, intellectual balance goes beyond Yale. Yale has maybe gotten more media attention than some.
@tonymom Of course some Yale students do community service and hopefully most study (at least a little!). I was directing my comments to students at Yale and elsewhere who think that renaming buildings and complaining about Halloween costumes are worthwhile uses of time.
@runswimyoga And, I am sorry, but no matter what race or background, any student at Yale should no longer be considered “oppressed” in my book. I just hope that all students will use their good fortune to help others in concrete ways rather than spend time protesting the names of buildings.
@CCDD14 I like your thinking! I wish everyone would move on from dwelling on the sins of the past and focus on the opportunities of giving back to society now and in the future.
Make Yale proud.
Nobody is suggesting that a new building be named after a modern day person whose behavior is considered abhorrent today (such as a Nazi member or a supporter of apartheid). Calhoun College is named after someone who was a distinguished politician and whose behavior on slavery was mainstream at the time.
False equivalence. In western culture, swastikas mean only one thing–support for Nazism and persecution of “non-Aryan” people, particularly Jews (in eastern cultures, which had nothing to do with this persecution, the swastika is still used openly). Sombreros are still considered appropriate in many places, but “cultural appropriation” in colleges.
By the way, I still see that nobody supporting the renaming of Calhoun college is touching the topic of renaming Yale itself. Why?
@hebegebe Was responding to @MOMANDBOYSTWO suggestion that the Confederate Flag was a silly old symbol in my comparison of swastikas:
" the confederate flag was always just an old, historic flag to me, until last year. I never thought much anout it, and I actually think it’s still just a relic of the past. If racists use it as a symbol, we need to focus our dislike for those people and not the silly flag itself."
Add - I can see why students might not want to live and sleep in a building named after a white supremacist and racist… I don’t see what the big deal is about changing the name… at the time the building was named Blacks didn’t have a choice in the matter perhaps its time we re-evaluate and give them a voice -even if it only amounts to a protest…
Got it. The confederate flag is hard to defend.