<p>Hi. Ive noticed that some posters are opposed to BS/MD programs. If you share this opinion, can you please tell me the cons of such a program?</p>
<p>Or alternatively pros/cons for both routes (BS/MD and regular)</p>
<p>I know someone a year ahead doing it at UMiami. I think it's 6 or 7 years. It's guaranteed admission to the medical school as long as you get a certain MCAT score-I don't know what other requirements. Considering the amount of time it takes to get a full medical education, it seems worth it to shave off a year or two. I looked at some, like at Brown and Umiami and Vandy. My teachers told me I should just take it slow and have a life. I took the advice to heart and in the end, I wound up going to Cornell. Plenty of opportunities if I decide not to go into medicine. I just wanted to broaden my horizons and keep my options open. I guess one con is commitment.</p>
<p>You can't do a dual degree in med school, such as an MD/PhD. Plus it is extremely fast paced so you really don't have that much time to relax and you really can't choose your classes as one would in a regular undergrad.</p>
<p>The biggest con is that it locks you into one career path. From the posts I've seen on this board, it's very clear that many HSers don't know a whole lot about medicine. That's fine. You're in high school. However, it becomes a problem when you're enrolled in a BS/MD program. College should be about exploration.</p>
<p>IMO, the biggest con is that you're locked to one MEDICAL SCHOOL...you will be in the same place for the next 7 years. Also, many people i've seen are reluctant to apply to med school (lack of confidence?) and took a BA/MD spot just for that assuration. I mean, it's okay, but you may wind up going somewhere better or different</p>
<p>Oh man...I hate accelerated programs, and combined programs in which the undergrad and BS portions are intertwined (so you get both degrees on the same day)</p>
<p>Reasons why:</p>
<p>1) Locked in - has been mentioned. NCG has pretty much hit the nail on the head, but to further expand...every medical student knows there is a ton of attrition between freshman year and actually matriculating into a medical school. People quit for all kinds of reasons from not being smart enough to finding out they really don't like chemistry that much when they have a prof they don't like to finding some other profession that is far more enticing to you. In an accelerated or combined program what happens when you find these things out?</p>
<p>2) Maturity. 1 or 2 years may not seem like a lot, but believe me, it is. Everyone grows and matures a lot while in college and medical school, and that's really an important process. The difference between a 26 y/o and a 24 y/o is pretty significant and when you're dealing with patients lives that's important. Plus when you throw in the fact that most medical students actually are even older than that, it means those of us who are younger get the benefit of having older classmates who model more mature behavior. A class of only 18 y/o students doesn't get that advantage.</p>
<p>3) Why would you want to bypass college? It's seriously the greatest four years of most people's lives (even those who are pre-med still have a good time). An accelerated program is not going to give you the classic college experience. I know some people can do without that, but I wouldn't trade my 4 years of college for anything.</p>
<p>4) The people who are talented enough to get into combined programs typically are going to receive scholarships to undergrad, and most combined programs I've seen are as expensive or even more so than 4 years of private undergrad and 4 years of private medical school. Financially it's often not a good decision.</p>
<p>5) You're going to have your entire 20's to realize that all your friends who are in medical school are having way more fun than you, why start that process early?</p>
<p>6) You'll have to go to that ONE medical school...there's no choice.</p>
<p>7) The MCAT really isn't that bad.</p>
<p>8) Are you really going to look back when you are 70 and ready to retire and think to yourself "Wow, am I glad I was a doctor for 46 years and not 44!"?</p>
<p>I respect everyone's opinions, and since he/she said they wanted both the pros and cons, here are the pros:</p>
<p>You are subject to going into medicine, but if that is a 100% what you want to do, then thats not a bad thing. Most people who go into the programs have assured themselves this is what they want to do by shadowing and all that stuff. If they weren't sure, then it wouldn't be a good idea to apply to these programs.</p>
<p>Not all BS/MD programs are accelerated. In fact, most aren't. So you still get to have that college life, just without the stress of getting denied from medical school. I think its a great security blanket. </p>
<p>If you're going through the regular 4 years undergrad and 4 years med school, you mature at the same rate everyone else does.</p>
<p>I don't know about all the other programs, but many of the programs in Texas provide a full undergrad scholarship (I got one). The med school that is associated with my program is public so the costs are lower than many schools.</p>
<p>If you like the medical school that's associated with the program, then there isn't much of a problem. I have never wanted to go to a big school, so for me, Texas A&M Medical School is perfect because the classes are small. I go to a Texas A&M undergrad school, and I love the small-knit family environment that the schools have. I think that concept is even more important in med school when things are more stressful.</p>
<p>Success/happiness in BS/MD programs are highly dependent on the person. If you have a doubt about going into medicine, don't apply to them. If you don't have any doubts and you get into the program, I think it is great knowing you can relax a bit and not have to worry about the MCAT and applying and interviewing a 10+ schools. (It costs quite a lot of money and time to interview at that many places).</p>
<p>There's a typo in my point #5</p>
<p>Should read:</p>
<p>5) You're going to have your entire 20's to realize that all your friends who are NOT in medical school are having way more fun than you, why start that process early?</p>
<p>to correct the misconception, you don't HAVE to go to that med school, if you decide that you want to go somewhere else, simply take the MCAT and apply to the med schools of your choice.</p>
<p>well my take on this is that the whole point of getting into a bs/md, bs/do, bs/dds, or bs/ pharmD is for security reason. Now this security reason can be a pro or a con depending on the person. Personally, i have seen that many of bs/md students are children of physicians- probably cause their parents want them to continue the tradition. As much as having a life goes, i really dont think you will be able to have so much fun- like going to parties and getting drunk daily- if you want to be premed regardless. But what should be most important right now is to find out if you truly want to go into the medical/ healthcare field. If you do, its not so bad to know that there is a spot waiting for you after your undergrad.</p>
<p>And from what i heard, residency is more important than the name of your medical school unless you are deciding to go to academic medicine. keep that in mind</p>
<p>A few more pros about BS/MD programs -</p>
<ul>
<li><p>More collaborative environment. Premeds seeking traditional route can face an environment of cutthroat competition. Since BS/MD'ers are already have med school acceptances, it allows for a more collaborative and enhanced learning opportunity.</p></li>
<li><p>less stress - You have enough stress later on once you are in Med school. Why get burnt out before you get in with excessive stress?</p></li>
<li><p>If after 3 years of BS, you change you mind, you are not really bound to the program, you still have the option to apply as a traditional.</p></li>
<li><p>Not sure about all other programs do the same but at TCNJ/UMDNJ where my S got accepted, every BS/MD student has been given a full ride for 4 years. Final cost for initial 4 years amounts to only 12,000/year. Additionally, they also gave them $1500 for Summer abroad.</p></li>
<li><p>I know at least 1 other person who was accepted in NYU's 8 year BS/MD program and has decided to take a year off to do research prior to starting her MD at NYU. Therefore, some programs do offer this chance if you need more time. </p></li>
<li><p>I have also heard from this same individual that she also has an option of applying to MD/PhD at the time she finishes her year off and is ready to get back to school. </p></li>
</ul>
<p>I do think that schools vary. By the way, TCNJ also gives you a choice of pursuing your MD through SUNY Buffalo or BUMC I think.</p>
<p>Calccobra that may be the case at some schools, but I know that's not an option at some accelerated programs like UMKC (or at least wasn't when I applied there in the dark ages of Jan/Feb 2001). UMKC and the other accelerated programs I've heard about make a big deal about how you get medical classes from the very first day, so there's a lot less distinction between the undergrad part vs the med school part of your schooling (hence why UMKC grants the BA and the MD on the very same day six years later).</p>
<p>Gosh! Sorry about the grammatical errors above. Just noticed them after posting the message.......end of my 18 hr day, so please excuse me for not proof-reading before posting.</p>
<p>BRM, I know what you're talking about with the whole "less distinction" thing. Someone I know is in the NEOUCOM BS/MD program. The program mixes in classes that are traditionally taught in medical school into the regular premed curriculum. However, the students receive their BS before entering medical school. The caveat though is that they are told from the start that it is unethical to apply to any other medical school while "maintaining" their guarantee. If they wish to apply to another medical school, they have to give up their guarantee.</p>
<p>I chose the BS/MD program route (not at NEOUCOM, though) because I am sure I want to be a doctor at this point. This could obviously change, but right now I feel confident. I didn't really care where I went for undergrad and I didn't want to go to an uber competitive school. My program allows you to apply to other medical schools and maintain your guarantee. If I feel like I want to apply to other medical schools, I will. However, I did like the program's school. Also, the program allows me to major in a difficult academic area because I am afforded the option of maintaining a relatively lower GPA than that of the average medical school acceptaince.</p>
<p>BS/MD programs annoy me on principle: they're bait for overqualified kids who are compromising their desires.</p>
<p>Of course, sometimes (as somebody suggested above) the guarantee is a bonus: you'd want to go there anyway for undergrad. I have no problems with this. That doesn't bother me in the least.</p>
<p>But more often, the school is exploiting the insecurities of a 17 year old in order to try to lure them to a place they wouldn't otherwise want to be. That's what upsets me.</p>
<p>I agree with BDM. Not all of these programs are created equal. You want to look at if they are accelerated programs, or just standard 8 years-undergrad, seat reserved. Most importantly, see whether they are bind you to attend the medical school or not-</p>
<p>I think the Vanderbilt program (ENGAGE, which was the only one I applied to. I didn't hunt it down, I was just sent an application thinking "what the hell")
is like this. "Students participating in the ENGAGE Scholars Program who successfully meet the conditions set forth by the desired graduate or professional school are guaranteed admission but are not bound to enroll in that school, except in the case of the School of Medicine, which requires a binding agreement at the end of the sophomore year."</p>
<p>Also, make sure it's like BDM said, if its an 8 year program at a top notch school, then no harm if you change your mind, but don't sell yourself short and go for an obscure place trying to bait good students.</p>
<p>There are BS/MD programs that are not anyhow different in your undergrad. experience from what you would have if you were not in a program, except with some huge advantages. You are allowed any major (music, foreign language, engineering - including CO-OP). The advantage is that you are presented with much more opportunities than other students and you do not need to stress out applying to med. school. If accelerated programs are a problem, then apply to the ones that are not accelerated. If you are not sure about being a doctor, have another major, have a minor. But at the end, if you feel very strongly about midicine, you have a spot in med. school, while unlucky others are struggling to get an acceptance to med. school which less than 50% of them will gain.</p>
<p>1.) You're always allowed any major.</p>
<p>2.) It's absurd to compare yourself to normal students, because you're not normal students. If your odds were going to jump from 50% to 100%, then hey, these would be the best programs ever.</p>
<p>But your odds were always going to be higher than 50%, otherwise they wouldn't have offered you the spot. That's why it's an absurd baiting tactic. They try so hard to scare you, as if it's a lottery, when they know and you should know that your odds are much higher than that. They're exploiting the insecurities of talented seventeen year olds to lure them to a school which they don't otherwise want to be at.</p>
<p>3.) Again, if the program comes with other benefits -- tuition, small learning environment, whatever -- and you like those, then fine. No complaints. But the guarantee itself is comically overrated.</p>
<p>
[quote]
1.) You're always allowed any major.
[/quote]
This aspect of the baiting tactic is very sneaky. When I was looking at colleges, I considered a few combined programs (and applied to one... Brown's PLME). One thing I remember clearly from the brochure is interviews with PLME students who said (paraphrased) "it gives me the freedom to study whatever I want" or "freedom to major in _____" while "still having a spot at the med school".</p>
<p>It wasn't until after I got to college and started reading up on premed issues here on CC and other sites that I realized how you can major in anything you want regardless of whether you're in a combined program or not.</p>
<p>The college I did end up going to and where I am now (UConn) also has a combined program; the CPiM (Combined Program in Medicine). This thread piqued my curiosity so I checked out the website to see what it entails. You need to maintain a 3.5 GPA, take the MCAT and score at least 28. Additionally, the website says: "During their undergraduate years, the School of Medicine will require CPiM students to engage in clinical, research, and extracurricular and community service activities consistent with the expectations of the School of Medicine’s Admission Committee standards...Interviews and letters of recommendation will be used to evaluate and determine whether a CPiM student is fully prepared to initiate professional school studies. The School of Medicine retains the authority to deny matriculation in its school if a CPiM student does not fulfill all the contingencies required." You also still have to file an application with AMCAS.</p>
<p>All in all, it sounds like you've got to do everything a regular premed does, except knowing that if you fulfill all the requirements, you'll (most likely) get a spot at the med school. Of course, like BDM said, these are students who would probably get into at least one med school anyway.</p>