<p>Son has received an unexpected full out of state tuition scholarship at a solid tier 2 university. Great skiing in a city he enjoys with very good engineering and computer departments.</p>
<p>Problem -- You must maintain a 3,7 GPA to keep it year to year. That is a tough chore for an Engineering student. We were actually hoping for the lower down scholarship with less money but only a 3.0 GPA requirement.</p>
<p>tough call</p>
<p>drizzit. You should check. It may be that if giant scholarship A is lost, then lower scholarship B is still in place if scholarship B's requirements are met. Also check for grace periods . Not every scholarship requirement missed means an instant bye-bye. I have no idea, but you should check. A requirement of 3.7 would be spooky.</p>
<p>I felt my Engineering son did very well in his first year, but his first two semester GPA's were 3.67 and 3.5. He needed a 2.7 to keep the merit $$.</p>
<p>Is your S at the tippy top of the applicant pool for that school (I know he must be quite high, but do you know how high?)? I think if I were you, I would ask the school how students with this scholarship have fared in previous years - what % have been able to maintain that GPA? And, as curmudgeon has said, is there a grace period?</p>
<p>I think at some schools, my S could have done the 3.7GPA in Engineering, no problem. At the top 50 school he attended, not quite. He is now at an elite and struggling to be in the 3.0-3.25 range. So it really depends on the school, as much as or more than the kid.</p>
<p>Congratulations to him!</p>
<p>good tip Curmudgeon</p>
<p>thanks I will call tomorrow, or better yet son will call ;)</p>
<p>And, if your son is not comfortable calling, I think it is fine for you to make this call. It's your pocketbook, and I don't think this can be considered inappropriate helicoptering :). At least that's my opinion.</p>
<p>Also, check directly with the Engineering School about how their students fare in this scholarship scenario. Engineering Schools are more likely than others to have outside scholarship money controlled by the Dean (Business schools get this too) and in some places they use it after Freshman year because their graduates have a tougher time retaining general university scholarships.</p>
<p>Are there any current students that you can get ahold of to feel this out also? Like curmudgeon said, 3.7 is a little spooky. At the same time, while GPA requirements are in place to keep people from wasting the opportunity, it doesn't seem like they would set people up to fail? I mean, as in if your son qualified for this, he can probably handle it or they wouldn't have chosen it. </p>
<p>However like others said, I think flexibility definitely comes in here (grace period, etc). He may not intend on slacking, but what about an extended illness, family emergency, any variety of unexpected circumstances...if it is overly strict that could be difficult. </p>
<p>I hope it works out so that he can be eligible for both like curmudgeon said. BTW congrats, it's awesome just to be picked.</p>
<p>I agree that a 3.7 in engineering is tough although I'm sure it varies by school. At the schools my Ds are going to I think the engineering average is around 2.7. They're both in CS and it's definitely rigorous. Check out the average for the engineering department (or school) at the college to get an idea of how realistic a 3.7 is. Regardless, congrats to your S for doing so well.</p>
<p>Ouch! Yes traditional average GPA in engineering for tops schools in general tends to be around B- to B (~2.7-3.0), though it varies.</p>
<p>(varies since there is not always a forced curve. Many engineering classes I've taken, the professor says they will give the whole class an A if everyone deserves. Obviously this has not happened :) but sometimes average grade gets bumped up to B or B+, but not usually A-, 3.7)</p>
<p>I would check with the school as to
1) what is the average GPA of all engineering majors (as well as average GPA within the particular major selected)
2) if there is a grace period on the 3.7 GPA
3) what percent of recipients retain the scholarship through 4 years, and what percent get revoked because too low GPA</p>
<p>drizzit: Gee, and I'm stressing for my son over a 3.3 scholarship at a tier 2 (or 3?). Also engineering.</p>
<p>A 3.7 gpa for an engineering or science major is indeed spooky. And at such statospheric levels grace periods may be of little use. If he achieved a very respectible 3.5 gpa first semester, he would have to pull down about a 4.0 the next!!! Talk about pressure. One tough DSA or mvcalc course could derail that possibility.</p>
<p>Our son, now a junior in compsci/cogsci has a 3.8 gpa but pulled down 3.5's both freshman semesters, and that was with digging himself out of a huge midterm hole in Data Structures and Algorithms to get an A.</p>
<p>At the college he attends(Rensselaer), no scholarships have minimum gpa's for their retention. One reason is because the avg gpa is typically in the 3.0 range. B</p>
<p>But more importantly, they do NOT want their scholarship students to feel pressured in choosing academic plans with gpa in the back of their minds. Better to take interesting and challenging courses at the expense of some arbitrary gpa than to choose electives only because an A is more likely.</p>
<p>I do think that this being a Tier 2 University offers some hope that the 3.7 requirement is doable. Some hope. I really think that if it were me, I would go by
*whether there is grace period or some other arrangement for getting back on the horse if need be
*information on grade distribution/GPA distribution in the Engineering school specifically
*information on GPA distribution in the planned major of CS
*historical data on % of Engineering/CS students who have been able to maintain the required GPA vs. % who have lost the scholarship</p>
<p>None of this will be a guarantee, but it should give you enough to make an informed judgment. Because my own son has been at three different schools due to Katrina, I can really see how much things can vary from one school to another in grading policies, course difficulty, where a kid fits on the curve.</p>
<p>The other thing to consider is, can you afford the school even without the scholarship? </p>
<p>Also, if he didn't lose it until say year two or three, how does the overall cost of the 4 years of education compare? (Grasping at straws here...)</p>
<p>
[quote]
But more importantly, they do NOT want their scholarship students to feel pressured in choosing academic plans with gpa in the back of their minds. Better to take interesting and challenging courses at the expense of some arbitrary gpa than to choose electives only because an A is more likely.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>That was my reaction, reading about the required 3.7 GPA. It encourages students to play it safe intellectually and to be grade-grubbers.</p>
<p>3.7 means he will never attempt a course he feels like he might fail at, or might learn a lot in even if he isn't good at it. (And I don't care if it is 1st tier or 4th tier, the argument would still hold.)</p>
<p>Or, learn that "failing" does not mean only getting a B...</p>
<p>Our story. DS won a large scholarship requiring a 3.0 by semester's end to keep it. Against our advice, he took advanced French and bypassed all college level Calculus going straight into Differential Equations. Combine that with the first semester fun of being away from home and that wild dorm life and he finished his first semester with a GPA of a 2.55! Both he and his parents were sweating bullets. If he loses that scholarship, he would have to leave. The grand awakening occured and he nailed two As in the winter term to bring his GPA up to a 3.15. We started to breath again. This spring semester seems to be going well too. Lesson learned: if you've got a huge scholarship riding on the line, don't get greedy with the classes and take too tough of a schedule. Give yourself some wiggle room, at least for the first year until you get a feel for college and the amount of work required. Our two cents for this situation.</p>
<p>Look at some of the schools strong in engineering that fall into Tier 2: Virginia Tech, Michigan State, Purdue, Clemson. Engineering kids who get 3.7 gpa's at these schools work their butts off. That would be ALOT of pressure in an all-ready pressurized major, in my opinion.</p>
<p>I think there is a lot of truth to what mini, marite and others are saying about such a stiff GPA requirement stifling any possible urge to explore and challenge in the other disciplines. However, even without such a GPA requirement, Engineering students - with their heavier class hour load than many other majors - have some tendency to go this route: looking for electives that will give them a "breather." Not saying it's right; just saying that disincentive may already be built in.</p>
<p>BTW, doesn't always work. Sometimes those classes they hoped wouldn't be too strenuous require more time and effort than planned. Some just bite the bullet and cope. Or find the class so valuable, they decide to stay the course. Others, I imagine, drop and shop around. The incentive to drop and shop around would obviously be stronger with the 3.7 hanging over the head.</p>
<p>I still think it matters A LOT what the GPA average is at this school, where the kid stands in the pecking order of aptitude. At some schools, the hurdles to attaining the 3.7 are just order(s) of magnitude different than at others.</p>
<p>3.7 engineering is really an insane cut off. I know at my sons school that engineering degrees have courses you have to take at specific times. Not much room for electives. My point is if he gets into trouble he might not be able to take "easier" courses to pull it back up because he is on a schedule.Or it might take him another year to graduate if he takes less credits a semester.</p>