<p>part of the problem with this list is that it includes colleges that “soared in the rankings,” but doesn’t say what rankings!!</p>
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<p>You (conveniently) forgot that U$C offers these other “merit” $cholar$hip$ as well:</p>
<p>(a) NATIONAL MERIT FINALIST PRESIDENTIAL SCHOLARSHIPS</p>
<p>(b) PRESIDENTIAL SCHOLARSHIPS</p>
<p>(c) INTERNATIONAL FRESHMAN ACADEMIC SCHOLARSHIPS</p>
<p>(d) JEWISH LEADERSHIP SCHOLARSHIP</p>
<p>(e) USC ASSOCIATES SCHOLARSHIPS</p>
<p>[USC</a> Financial Aid - Grants & Scholarships - Undergraduate - Freshmen Only Scholarships](<a href=“http://www.usc.edu/admission/fa/grants_scholarships/undergraduates/meritbasedfo.html]USC”>http://www.usc.edu/admission/fa/grants_scholarships/undergraduates/meritbasedfo.html)</p>
<p>i-guy,
I have difficulty understanding why a merit scholarship is a bad thing. Please explain.</p>
<p>Are you a child of privilege and are not paying the bill for your own college? Do you believe that those of lesser means are lesser people because they lack the ability to fund their college expenses?</p>
<p>Anecdote information.</p>
<p>I was rejected from Tufts )recieved a big fat X mark on the envelope=, I had a 2200 SAT, 780 US history, 720 Math, 730 Bio, 4.0 UW, Tons of APs )lots of classes at Harvard, Leadership, Ran my own business, got into Johns Hopkins, Duke, BC, tons of great schools, waitlisted at MIT )damnit, so close.</p>
<p>My theory</p>
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<p>I believe in NEED-based financial aid only. Most merit-based scholarships disproportionately end up going to upper-middle-class or upper-class students (who don’t really need them). </p>
<p>The irony in your statement lies in that these merit-based scholarships could be better re-directed to make the colleges that offer them more socio-economically diverse.</p>
<p>It is exactly because I do NOT believe that, in your words, “those of lesser means are lesser people because they lack the ability to fund their college expenses” that I argue against merit-based scholarships for need-based scholarships.</p>
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It matters relatively little whether Brown is growing or not – what matters is how fast it’s growing relative to its peers. </p>
<p>Even as of last year (2013), Brown received fewer applications per spot than Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Columbia, and Dartmouth. Its yield was also lower than any of the Ivies except Cornell.</p>
<p>On an entirely different note, who was the smart aleck who added the tag to this thread? :p</p>
<p>i-guy,
Different colleges have different levels of providing financial aid. The awarding of need-based aid is often a subjective process where a student of need to one college is not necessarily seen that way by another or at least seen as needful to a different degree. In an ideal world, it’d be straightforward, but alas, it definitely is not. </p>
<p>As for the awarding of merit aid, I think your argument might be valid if a college was not meeting the full financial need of the students that it did enroll. If they could not meet that need and were taking money from the need-based group to give to the merit group, that would appear a bit unseemly. But as long as the schools can meet the needs of their low-income students, why shouldn’t they applauded for offering merit aid? Do you enjoy paying $50k+ a year? </p>
<p>Many of the schools that you enjoy criticizing meet 100% of the need of their students. Students who might not qualify for need, but see expensive grad schools as part of their future would be stupid not to consider merit scholarships as part of their college search and calculations. This is Personal Finance 101. </p>
<p>For the record, here are the national universities that offer 100% of their students’ need-based requirements:</p>
<p>% of Need Met , National University</p>
<p>100% , Harvard
100% , Princeton
100% , Yale
100% , Caltech
100% , MIT
100% , Stanford
100% , U Penn
100% , Columbia
100% , U Chicago
100% , Duke
100% , Dartmouth
100% , Northwestern
100% , Wash U
100% , Cornell
100% , Brown
100% , Emory
100% , Rice
100% , Vanderbilt
100% , Notre Dame
100% , Georgetown
100% , U VIRGINIA
100% , USC
100% , Tufts
100% , U N CAROLINA
100% , Wake Forest
100% , Boston College
100% , U Rochester</p>
<p>Of course, “need-AWARE” schools like WUSTL can meet “100% need.” They reject or waitlist anyone they cannot afford…</p>
<p>Agreed with hawkette. In addition, there are many instances where middle-class students will not get much need-based aid because they have a higher EFC, but their parents may have, for whatever reason, not saved enough or are not willing to pay for university. Why punish students like these for their parents’ mistakes? Merit-based aid helps many students in this sticky situation, in addition to students in general. If a school has extra money to give after it’s met the need of any student who has it, why shouldn’t they give it out? And wouldn’t the most logical recipients of this money be the best students?</p>
<p>What’s wrong with rewarding people for their academic record? The notion that there is something wrong with merit aid is absolutely ridiculous.</p>
<p>totally agree with above</p>
<p>Not to mention that some schools get the money to pay for merit-based scholarships from alumni. If a USC alumni donates money to the school to be used for a scholarship, would you expect USC to turn it down? The notion that offering merit-based scholarships somehow makes a school less worthy is just strange.</p>
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<p>Presumably, admission itself is “rewarding people for their academic record.” </p>
<p>Why needlessly create a two-tiered student body in which the merit scholars are first-class citizens and the rest are not?</p>
<p>Colleges do not offer merit scholarships out of the goodness of their heart. They do it so that they don’t lose admits to more attractive and prestigious options. In this sense, they are “less worthy” or they wouldn’t have to do it in the first place.</p>
<p>College admissions is a spectrum. There is not two distinct classes where adcoms say, “Oh, this one HAS to be a merit scholar” or “Well, we’ll admit her, but DEFINITELY lower class”. No. You’ll find a range of academic aptitude at almost any college you go to, even Harvard. In addition, people have different academic interests, and not everyone is the same academically. Merit scholarships do not create a 2-class caste system, they enhance the higher end of the academic spectrum and add to the intellectual diversity at the school. Students will not divide like oil and water - they will not separate based on merit scholars and non-merit scholars.</p>
<p>So what if they want to keep more talented admits? Everything in college admissions is revolved around getting applicants and then keeping the ones they have admitted. Merit scholarships are a way of accomplishing the latter, but almost everything in the process is involved in one or the other. Viewbooks, mailings, the Common App, fee waivers, admitted students weekends, and numerous other marketing devices are used to get applicants and then keep admits. Merit scholarships are another tactic used get and keep applicants as well as enhance the diversity and spectrum of the intellectual community at a school.</p>
<p>“Colleges do not offer merit scholarships out of the goodness of their heart.”</p>
<p>Some may…and some alumni also may. You let me know when you’ve personally contacted every single person who’s created a merit scholarship at a school and they all tell you it was simply to attract students to their school or alma mater.</p>
<p>Call me cynical!</p>
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<p>At certain schools like Duke, this may actually be the case. The merit scholars have access to resources and opportunities that are just not open to the rest of the student body.</p>
<p>Why do you think almost every one of Duke’s recent Rhodes, Marshall, etc. scholars has been a former merit scholar, if not for the highly structured stratification which doesn’t seem to attenuate over time?</p>
<p>hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm .</p>
<p>i-guy,
Fast forward from college about 5 years. You’re working at ABC Bulge Bracket Investment Bank wearing your suspenders and your $200 Hermes tie and you’ve just sat down with your MD to discuss how you created such value in your business development and all the great frauds…I mean, fees…fees!..that you generated this year. For your work, ABC is going to pay you X and they’re going to make you feel like you should be eternally grateful. But in your heart, you know that you’re better than that and that ABC isn’t the only game in town. </p>
<p>XYZ has a department very similar to the one you work in at ABC. You set up a meeting with the MD of XYZ and she wants to bring you on board at XYZ and will guarantee you 1.5X for three years plus a signing bonus of 50%X. She introduces you all around and really wants you to be part of their team. You meet a lot of the folks at XYZ and you discover that the camaraderie and the intelligence of the people at XYZ is very impressive-no one at ABC ever thought that they were this good. Why didn’t anybody ever tell you this??</p>
<p>You make a lot of money and the family you come from is already obscenely rich, but you’d really like to get that house in the Hamptons in your name and put away enough money for your retirement by age 35. While not as prominent in the industry’s eyes as ABC, you come to realize that XYZ is a darn fine place with a good present and an even better future and with a spirit and personality that is charming. You decide to accept their generous offer. </p>
<p>In the business world, many would call that an intelligent decision. The folks at ABC probably wouldn’t, but what would you expect them to say when one of their best and brightest future stars gets lured away to a competitor, particularly one that they arrogantly believe is not as good? </p>
<p>In college terms, this is analogous to the offer of a merit scholarship to a very top student. He may not need the money, but it is the smart thing to do if he/she believes that the college can offer a similar or better undergraduate experience for them. Not to mention the fact that the student can now save money for grad school or an around-the-world postgrad trip or some other dream idea. </p>
<p>Morale of the story for that very top student (or that very valuable employee)—do you own homework, make your own judgments and don’t be swayed by the crowd. Merit offers from very good schools are a darn attractive alternative. Trust your own brain and your instincts and you will make the right decision.</p>
<p>What makes you think I want to be a banker? Or a mercenary…</p>
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<p>How does this work in practice? Is it like a public “honors college”? I’ve never heard of such a thing at any private university, so I’m curious to hear some details. What others are among the “certain schools”?</p>
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<p>What’s the source of this information? I’d be interested to see a link to biographical information about Rhodes, Marshall, etc. scholars that goes into such detail, down to the color of money they had received in college.</p>