The decline in English majors

<p>“My theory is that fewer kids are studying English in college because high school English classes teach only depressing, gut-searing, soul-wrenching texts, because they are the only ones that are “serious literature,” as defined by high school English teachers (who, as has been pointed out earlier in the thread, are not English majors).” </p>

<p>For years, I’ve been asking my kids what they are reading in their English classes. At least half the time it’s something to do with the Holocaust, slavery, or race relations (e.g., To Kill a Mockingbird). These are obviously profound and important topics, and every kid needs to know about them. But the topics are so “depressing, gut-searing, soul-wrenching” (as marysidney said above) that they focus exclusively on the “surface” events, which leaves little space to study things like subtext, plot structure, character development, etc.</p>

<p>MarySidney – </p>

<p>-A UCLA student can meet the 1500-1700 requirement with
English 155
Gender and Renaissance Drama</p>

<p>How did the early modern English theater stage the culture’s complex, unstable notions of gender? What’s at stake for this generation of English playwrights in representing gender identities—femaleness and maleness and ambiguous roles in between—in the ways that they do and in circulating those representations in the wider popular culture? This course will focus on a range of plays by dramatists of the sixteenth and early seventeenth centuries (including but not focused on Shakespeare) to develop ideas about the Renaissance investment in constructing gender according to particular political, social, domestic, and intellectual goals. What does the association of domesticity, business, or violence with femininity or masculinity tell us about early modern notions of selfhood and sexuality in general and about the theatre in particular? What might be the significance for the theatre of such writings as the anonymous pamphlets “Hic Mulier; or the Man-woman” and “Haec Vir; or the Womanish man,” both of which contended that a woman or man who dressed as her or his sexual opposite (in life or on stage) risked becoming what she or he wore? What do the theatre’s developing ideas of performance and performativity contribute to the culture’s developing ideas of the elusive nature of gender identifies and selfhood? Including works by such playwrights as Christopher Marlowe, Elizabeth Cary, John Webster, Shakespeare, and others, this course tangles with the ways Renaissance English plays construct perceptions of maleness and femaleness, and asks what the aesthetic, social, and ideological implications of these perceptions might be in their own day and in the centuries that follow.</p>

<ul>
<li>From 1700-1850, here’s English 163A
Romanticism and Revolution</li>
</ul>

<p>The decade following the French Revolution was one of the most turbulent in English cultural and political history. New formulations of the rights of man (and of woman), various anticipations of a new cultural and political order, and altogether new understandings (and enactments) of being and desire—all of which were developed as England itself seemed poised on the brink of a revolution—were elaborated in a series of exciting developments in art, poetry, and literary as well as political discourse. Drawing on a range of materials, from experimental ballads to visionary paintings, and from seditious songs to revolutionary pamphlets, this course will explore the contours of the emergent cultural politics of a new age.</p>

<ul>
<li>And from 1850-present there’s English M101B
Pre-Stonewall LGBT/Queer Literature since 1855
Queer Literatures and Cultures, 1850-1970</li>
</ul>

<p>Our course surveys LGBT/Queer literature before Stonewall, a historical and mythic moment in LGBT culture, which refers to the riots at the Stonewall Inn (largely a drag bar for people of color) in New York at the end of June in 1969. This moment was taken as the beginning of the modern LGBT/Queer movement. In short, our course will focus on LGBT literature and culture before that culture may be said to have “outed” itself. Our course will grapple with a range of issues concerned with some of the relationships among gender, sex, and, and sexuality—and race. We will think, too, about issues of identity politics, then and now. Also, we will think about the use of various genres, narrative styles, and terminologies.</p>

<p>At least to me this seems like a far different English major than the classic one. I particularly note that the description for the Queer Lit class adds at the very end, “Also, we will think about the use of various genres, narrative styles, and terminologies.” Kind of an afterthought to the main focus of the course, imo, and a good example of what I think is an unhelpful direction in English education.
(And I have no objection to any of these courses as electives for the major, but I don’t accept them as substitutes for the traditional classes emphasizing close reading of the actual texts of the literary canon.)</p>

<p>"From 1700-1850, here’s English 163A
Romanticism and Revolution</p>

<p>The decade following the French Revolution was one of the most turbulent in English cultural and political history. New formulations of the rights of man (and of woman), various anticipations of a new cultural and political order, and altogether new understandings (and enactments) of being and desire—all of which were developed as England itself seemed poised on the brink of a revolution—were elaborated in a series of exciting developments in art, poetry, and literary as well as political discourse. Drawing on a range of materials, from experimental ballads to visionary paintings, and from seditious songs to revolutionary pamphlets, this course will explore the contours of the emergent cultural politics of a new age."</p>

<p>Sounds like they will be looking at art by Blake, maybe reading Wordsworth. </p>

<p>Im not sure that reading english romanticism as cultural politics is THAT odd </p>

<p>Bliss was it in that dawn to be alive,
But to be young was very heaven!–Oh! times,
In which the meagre, stale, forbidding ways
Of custom, law, and statute, took at once
The attraction of a country in romance!</p>

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<p>The basic problem is that the typical HS goes frpm extreme to another. After failing to teach basic grammar and basic composition well, the curriculum jumps to a more complex attempt to “review” literature and, again, fails miserably. The is the typical syndrome of a high school trying to be something it is not, and yet another reflection of the damage created by the AP boondoggle. </p>

<p>While we do not need high schoolers to be able to describe the finer points of Joseph Conrad as an English major would, we DO need students to learn to interpret smaller passage correctly, have a modicum of grammar knowledge, a basic vocabulary, and the ability to spell most of the words correctly when writing a small but cogent paragraph. </p>

<p>We KNOW and EXPECT that most HS will fail or barely pass English and Algebra. However, we also have become complacent in allowing high schoolers to graduate without the most basic knowlege. Hence, the need for many colleges to offer remedial classess to the students who were not casualties of our dropout factories. </p>

<p>The worst part of this abysmal situation is that it does not improve. Rather than placing the focus on providing a basic education that corresponds to the needs of our society we insist in creating schools within schools and pursue the asinine development of programs such as IB and AP that deliver a mile wide and one inch deep instruction that is almost always forgotten by the start of the summer. </p>

<p>A quarter of century ago, some warned about the US being a Nation at Risk. Our answer was to go well beyond the most negative expectations. And it WILL continue to deteriorate until we realize that education requires a lot more than developing self-esteem along the shores of Lake Wobegon.</p>

<p>I feel like half my HS English career revolved around the Holocaust. Then throw in slavery and race stuff. And finally rap it all together in a “coming of age story” and BOOM you’ve got a high school honors english book.</p>

<p>But I think the move is happening because students are realizing there are much more practical majors out there with much better career prospects. </p>

<p>I don’t see how knowing the theme of a fiction book will ever help me in the real world.</p>

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<p>Or because merely holding a bachelor’s degree in a subject not specific to a job is insufficient to get a job that pays well enough to pay off the ever increasing amount of student loan debt that students take to afford the cost of attending a university? (However, English is still a rather popular major, and other popular majors like biology have poor job and career prospects as well.)</p>

<p>On the other hand, many students see English as a pre-law major, so choosing it may not be completely due to passion for classic English literature. Indeed, could it be that the inclusion of the topics discussed upthread is due to making the curriculum “more relevant” to pre-law students – whether one may think the changes as “good” or “bad” otherwise?</p>

<p>Thank you marysidney for your post #18, and the commentary on the books covered in typical high school English curricula. You’ve expressed my feelings almost exactly, in a much more eloquent way. Now, if that could only be communicated to the English teachers . . . </p>

<p>Actually, QMP’s English teacher managed to find a relatively nauseating section of Chaucer to highlight. I suspect that there are levels of imagination/empathy that make the readings emotionally difficult, while a more clinical approach to life smooths them over. Ironically, it’s probably the more imaginative and empathetic group who might logically become English majors if not turned off early.</p>

<p>In CA the ethnic background of the majority of entering freshman is non-English speaking (Asian or Hispanic). Courses in ethnic studies, Chicano studies & Asian studies have proliferated in response to the changing demographic. Some of these new diversity driven majors may be supplanting the traditional English major.</p>

<p>One other issue with English instruction is that (in both high school and university), writing and communication instruction is usually combined with reading and analysis of literature. Someone who does not care so much for the latter, or is not that good at it, may not put too much effort into the class, and not pay enough attention to any of the more critical (for any subject) instruction on effective writing and communication skills.</p>

<p>It would be analogous to having all math courses be combined math and physics courses, even though some students are less interested and less good at physics, and may be interested in either pure math or math applied to other subjects like economics, statistics, computer science, political science, etc…</p>

<p>Having a love of literature and facility in using our language is not enough to want to major in it. It is easy to keep reading and major in something else. Once you know how to read at many levels it is not necessary to always do so.</p>

<p>English as a field of study- how many people do we need to regurgitate the finer points/interpretations already done by past generations? There is nothing new except for newer literature being written- no radical ideas, ways of doing the subject. It is good to continue with literature requirements in college. Allowing AP credits lessens the amount taken for many in college, however.</p>

<p>What jobs did/do most English majors get? What is their career decades later? Before most women expected to get jobs/have careers out of college it was fine to have a major that was considered “useless” for the job market. Now male English majors are competing with women for jobs. I wonder how many women generations ago chose English as their major due to its acceptability for them (my own mother was told math/science/engineering wasn’t for girls)?</p>

<p>Grad school study keeps changing for many fields. For English/literature- so much has already been overstudied. How many versions of Shakespeare et al interpretations do we need? Writing is a different field.</p>

<p>High school education should include learning how to read a book at many levels along with knowing correct and current grammar conventions. In today’s world we can no longer depend on students being conversant with the Bible and the many references to its subject matter in English language literature over the ages. When I think of the books I read in HS/college lit courses and compare them to those read by my son I am aware of the many written since my day. Current students have so much more to cover to touch upon society as reflected in writing. Massive social changes have occurred in just the past 50 years and literature reflects this. My HS covered contemporary American authors as well as lit from early English onwards- to cover those and current ones means cutting material considered important in my day. Also, there is much more sensitivity to other cultures than the English based ones.</p>

<p>I wonder how many students choose other cultures’ literature as a study now? “English” (and American) literature is not all lit. Many more choices available now. Also possible to enjoy literature while in the sciences- not necessary to be an English major to enjoy literature with appreciation of many levels.</p>

<p>While composing this “essay” I have seen many new posts. Won’t revise or add any more now. Time to get “published” before all of my ideas are stolen/outdated.</p>

<p>Two things are going on in this thread. Yes there is a worsening in grammar, and that is well recognized. Texting will only accelerate the decline. </p>

<p>The other issue is the value of the english degree. If we expand it to the liberal arts degree, we see the decrease in value of learning how to think. Today the majors have turned into voc-tech engineering, business, or criminal justice etc. with the degee relating directly to the hoped for job. We are accepting the loss of the ability to study for four years in learning how to think. </p>

<p>When I studied philosophy, my parents had qualms, but it prepared me more for my life and career than anything else I could have studied. When universities became trade schools we all lost.</p>

<p>Learning how to think is just as vital to science and other majors- nonscience majors don’t own the process. In science and technology today one can’t rely on what is learned, you need to know how to change, ie how to think- outside the box you are currently in. A global awareness has expanded the need to be flexible in thinking for all.</p>

<p>Is grammar worsening or evolving? A few years ago The Story of English was a PBS series and there is a book. Our language is constantly evolving. Think of the stilted language you read in old novels- no one talks that way today. Many classic authors’ style is so long winded. And I’m not into today’s shorthand jargon. Spelling is changing- one l or two when adding -ed or -ing? Language is a living entity, meant for communication. I do not regret the evolution to the English of my time instead of the style of a century ago.</p>

<p>Yes, there should be concern about fragmentation of ideas in today’s world. Too many short bits of information instead of more in depth analysis. Conclusions drawn on limited data bits. But that is not the topic here.</p>

<p>I think the Renaissance course sounds fascinating, and it introduces students to many of the best writers of the time, famous and not-so-, as well as some of the most important themes; in a period when women were only beginning to be “allowed” to write, even in private, when all actors were male and female parts were played by men (a source of many jokes in the texts), when many plays featured actors playing women playing men, when some playwrights (including Shakespeare) were bisexual, the intersections between gender and expectations and realities are especially fruitful, and offer students a starting point from which to explore a period which can be overwhelming. </p>

<p>As BrooklynbornDad points out, Romanticism is a movement that features a pretty standard canon of mostly male writers; unlike the -isms conservatives decry, romanticism was a contemporaneously embraced, self-consciously adopted aesthetic of writers who thought they were radical thinkers, and were at the time, but who have since been mainstreamed (besides Blake and Wordsworth, you’d have Carlisle, Coleridge, Byron, both Shelleys, Keats, Poe and Hawthorne). There isn’t much in that course you wouldn’t have found half a century ago. </p>

<p>And for the last course–literature cannot be limited only to the texts that express one viewpoint, or civilization could have stopped writing a long time ago. Good literature is imaginative, expressive, complicated, simple, and satisfying; not all literature does that for all people, nor can it. Sometimes texts that are really difficult to read, like King Lear, are challenging in important ways. Part of learning to read literature is to try to leave behind your culture and your expectations and tackle a text on its own terms; it is important to do that for Beowulf, and it’s important–perhaps more important–to do that for literature that expresses a minority view of your own time. </p>

<p>“Close reading” is a part of all good English study; papers must use the texts as evidence in the argument. The course descriptions might talk about exploring and thinking and grappling, but the papers will rely on close reading, or they will be unacceptable, in my experience. I have read and listened to many a paper that examined only a few lines of text! There is a difference, however, between close reading and the branch of criticism popular after WWII, called New Criticism, which called for reading a text in a vacuum, without the benefit of context either historical or literary; that kind of criticism proved to be pretty sterile. But context doesn’t replace the text, it enriches our understanding of it. Now, literary theory can sometimes drop the textual ball and go off into the realms of philosophy, but most undergraduates will not be wrestling with the likes of Derrida.</p>

<p>Most college English teachers will tell you that they spend a good deal of their time trying to get students to abandon their death-grip on the five-paragraph structure that was drilled into them all through high school, and spend more time on the thinking and evidence that goes into a good paper: most kids have been taught that the really important thing is to write an introduction (with intro sentence, elaboration, and conclusion–all in the same paragraph!), three paragraphs outlining the argument, with evidence (each paragraph must have an introductory and concluding sentence), and a final paragraph concluding the paper (with, of course, an introductory and concluding sentence). It is really hard to write a good paper with that kind of plodding construction–the framework gets in the way.</p>

<p>the average American adult reads something like 1.5 books per year.</p>

<p>In my house alone we are covering for around 500 adults…</p>

<p>Where have all the bookstores gone?</p>

<p>Why would our kids value what we do not value as a culture? Why would they spend 100,000 to 250,000 dollars to study the vanishing book? Better to study film or TV if you love stories, sad to say, and the love of stories is the ONLY reason to major in English Lit.</p>

<p>We need English majors to justify English departments so the rest of us can take a few/several courses to enrich our education (only one reason for them). Substitute any major for the word “English”. The question becomes- how many does society need? Or- can the benefits of the major be had with another major for most? An example- my math/comp sci major son took several Philosophy courses, including an entire advanced one on a single philosopher. Did he need the entire course requirements for a Philosophy major to get the benefits of one? Or- is he better off with job skills due to fields he loves most plus the other courses? btw, historically philosophy and math have often gone together- famous people who studied both.</p>

<p>@greyhaired, kind of stuck up don’t ya think? </p>

<p>Just because some BA degrees do not have as good of a career outlook as BS degrees that doesn’t mean they are the only ones that “teach you how to think.” That’s ridiculous. </p>

<p>And what are you learning about in an English degree? Like you said it must teach you this mastery of thinking… I didn’t know that could come from reading about things that never happened (fiction) and boring ass poems. </p>

<p>I fall in the average American level, or less, when it comes to reading books, fiction at least. I don’t really see the point in it. Non-fiction articles and the like sure, I’ll read those.</p>

<p>^ It’s hard to imagine a better illustration of greyhaired’s point …</p>

<p>PDM-</p>

<p>Some of us actually love poetry. :p</p>

<p>AND we don’t care if you read or not. ;)</p>

<p>Interesting thread, especially as D2 will be an English major when she matriculates. Any doubt about that has been vanquished in the past 3 weeks as she has been loving her AP Language class, annotating and text analyzing included. Although she will never willingly read any more Faulkner ;)</p>

<p>But, I’m a librarian and have thousands of books in my home so I’m not looking at the vocational side of things. DH, who works in the healthcare industry in HR, says that the lack of people in business who can write a basic memo for distribution is appalling. Corporate communications is always a viable job prospect besides academia, teaching at the elementary through high school level along with various writing avenues. Luckily this is my kid who “doesn’t need stuff” so the lack of a high earning potential is recognized but not a big concern. </p>

<p>I think our HS has a great English dept. Both my kids have had fantastic English teachers for the past 8 years, so maybe I have a skewed sense of what goes on in the typical English classroom.</p>

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<p>Just because a given field of study happens to have better job and career prospects does not mean that it does not include learning how to think. An engineering or business graduate who has not learned how to think will not be effective in engineering or business. Also, an engineering graduate is likely to have had to think about different subjects in humanities and social studies (for typical breadth requirements) as well as in science and engineering; most humanities and social studies graduates skip the latter beyond the “physics for poets” and “rocks for jocks” type of science breadth courses.</p>