The Dumbing Down of American Pre-College Education

College Confidential Community
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<p>I'm reading through a book right now titled Dumbing Down Our Kids.</p>

<p>I know I know, it was written in 1995, but I doubt a lot has changed in K-12 education in America.</p>

<p>This book generally says that America has been continually lowering its standards in pre-college education and that it becomes very evident in tests in which students of many industrialized nations took.</p>

<p>For example, the only area where we match other developed countries in terms of pre-college education is our 1st grade students, who score relatively the same as students from Spain, Belgium, Japan, etc.</p>

<p>However, we begin to see huge discrepancies starting from the 5th grade to the 12th grade, where American consistently ranks among the worst in categories such as mathematics and scientific reasoning/logic/analysis.</p>

<p>When the previous generation was growing up, their valedictorians generally had like, 3.7 GPAs, which would make a 3.5-3.6 GPA very strong. Now, we have so many students chewing their nails at anything lower than a 3.8 GPA, and what, 5 valedictorians at a school.</p>

<p>Anyway, this affects us since CCers are generally the top 5% in America:</p>

<p>The book also states that the top 1% of American high school students, if placed in the high school systems in China, Japan, Spain, whatever, would fall considerably below average.</p>

<p>I've been to China, and I've seen what the high schoolers do over there. they're practically like robots when it comes to learning and working. I looked in my friend's textbooks (she was a freshman at this time, and a slightly above average student in her school), and I was looking at AP Physics material, calculus I+II material, advanced algebra/geometry, etc. Also, she knows much much more math/science than I do right now (She is 15 now, I'm 17, and I've gotten a 5/4 on calc BC, and a 5 on chem).</p>

<p>So many 8th graders from China can score an 800 on the math SATs (SAT Is, SAT IIs... I basically did an experiment of 5 students, all either 7th or 8th graders I knew because they were my parents' friends' kids or something like that). Even with less time than we do (since I had to translate the english into chinese) 4 of them scored perfect 800 and one of them got one problem wrong and ended up with a 790. Most of the 10th graders I tested in SAT II physics scored above 750.</p>

<p>I'm pretty sure this occurs in other countries like Japan, Luxembourg, Spain, Belgium, Taiwan.</p>

<p>Are we as Americans unable to compete with the world before college?</p>

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<p>I don't think it really matters that American kids are taught less material than kids in other countries. After all, in college, so many foreign students are vying for spots in the Ivies/top 20 US colleges. America isn't put at any significant disadvantage (as of now) due to our lax k-12 education.</p>

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<p>But what about this circumstance:</p>

<p>America's pre-college education becomes so lax to the point where the top schools have to choose between accepting American students of much lower caliber or flooding their seats with foreign students...</p>

<p>Neither choice is desirable.</p>

<p>Yanners: You're only 13??!! RUN AWAY FROM CC WHILE YOU STILL CAN!!! However, I can see that you already have 150 non-CC confidential posts, so I think you're already addicted to this site.</p>

<p>There's no escape for you =P</p>

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<p>For one I don't want to be a robot but I do agree with you. America needs to strengthen it's curriculum. My Vietnamiese TA told me, when I was complaining about how confused I was b/c how little I was taught, and he mumbled something about the school system being far below average and pushing it all on us at college and overwhelming us. It was funny.</p>

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<p>well i disagree with if put in japan, china or korea tha i would fall below average. I lived in korea from 5th to 10th grade and i was on the top. That doesn't apply to many people here. Also education in the US is more about making the top strong not the general population strong. I can argue that the top 1% or whatever in the US is strong enough to compete. Also American system is more about independence and discipline while education is a bit forced in korea and those countries.</p>

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<p>college<em>here</em>i_come: lol, I'm actually a sophomore. :D People keep thinking I'm still in middle school or something, but I just have a late birthday and I skipped a grade. And yes, I am <em>somewhat</em> of a CC-addict. No escape for me now! </p>

<p>While it would be rather awful for top schools to have to choose between crappy US students or wonderful foreign students, I can't envision that the curriculum would become <em>that</em> noncompetitive compared to worldwide curricula. Parents will eventually be insisting on tougher classes if it gets to that point: I know many parents at my school have complained about the easiness of the courses, thus leading to harder tests, more hw, etc. I certainly wasn't happy but at least the standards are being improved. No Child Left Behind at least ensures a marginal level of academic decency, though it forces some schools to focus on testing above all else.</p>

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<p>imiracle911.......IMHO US education is about buttressing the low end......bombard them w/ expensive services and focus all energy on them. What Fed Funds do you know of that serves the top % of students here? Gifted Education is woefully underfunded and scarce in availability....that is my observation. Where is the madate/funded for the gifted students????</p>

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<p>well in korea it is even worse. Like it is focused on the average kid and there are no honors/AP classes there. The top had to go to private institutes to learn more advanced material. There weren't many magnet schools there either. So i have to say america is much better for the gifted.</p>

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<p>I think not. AP is to try to bring up the kids who might be able and motivated to get into college.....not to serve the high end student. Be that as it may...unless one lives in a major metropolitan area where magnet schools are available private is the only solution or early matriculation to college in the area.</p>

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<p>"imiracle911.......IMHO US education is about buttressing the low end......bombard them w/ expensive services and focus all energy on them. What Fed Funds do you know of that serves the top % of students here? Gifted Education is woefully underfunded and scarce in availability....that is my observation. Where is the madate/funded for the gifted students????"</p>

<p>I agree with this. The American education system does not seem to place too much value on its best students. In my area, I am not aware of the existence of any gifted programs; there are remedial classes at any school.</p>

<p>At the same time, 'regular' classes move at such a terrible pace that I cannot imagine how anyone in them doesn't despise school. It's only anecdotal evidence, but I know many people who began school in eastern Europe and finished it here; with one exception, they all excelled here (with limited English) and were not particularly distinguished there.</p>

<p>"well in korea it is even worse. Like it is focused on the average kid and there are no honors/AP classes there. The top had to go to private institutes to learn more advanced material. There weren't many magnet schools there either. So i have to say america is much better for the gifted."</p>

<p>From what I understand, the pace of classes in many industrialized nations far suprasses honors and AP classes in the U.S. Everyone learns at that level, leading to significantly lower average grades. I can't say that I'm gifted, as I do not know whether I meet the criteria, but the honors-level, and later AP, classes that I took were far too slow and did not cover enough material. </p>

<p>I feel that there is a great deal of information that I did not learn in school that I should have, particularly in science. My parents covered honors-level high school physics and chemistry around the age of twelve in the Soviet Union a few decades ago. The courseload was far heavier both in grade school and in college. My parents tell me that they attended lectures for six or seven hours a day and spent the rest doing work.</p>

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<p>American students are trapped in HS.....for too many years learning too little advanced material. Make it shorter with more material for the high end students.....get them out of HS and into college sooner. We are perpetuating the mediocrity and NCLB isn't the answer for capable students.</p>

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<p>In Ireland... we don't have middle school and high school is 6 years, starting at the equivalent of 7th grade. From what I've seen of the material you guys need to know... anyone who takes the honours maths course for Leaving Certificate would do about the same amount as an AP Calculus BC student in the US. This course is taken by about 20% of students here. In languages, we all do 5 years of language, and some do 6. We have to take English, Irish and a foreign language for all years (quite unfair on science-minded students like I was...). For sciences... Physics here would be on the same level as a non-calculus based physics course (AP Physics B?). Chemistry and biology cover a fair chunk of the first year college course.</p>

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<p>well i think that is quite true regarding the fact that i never really studied for an exam for AP subjects and still got As. But what i am saying is that the TOP are not below average in ANY OF THOSE schools. In fact there's much more freedom here. U might disagree but hey i lived in korea and know the reality. Education is much better here at least for the top students than there or in asia in general.</p>

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<p>It is great to hear you refer to freedom and i like that. You are correct I cannot know and for sure I was born to this freedom so I cannot probably appreciate as you can......good of you to mention all of this.</p>

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<p>Well, one of the good things about the US education is that theres a lot more freedom to do things outside the classroom, since you're not bogged down so much by homework. So if you wanted to, you could spend all your free time watching tv, and playing video games, or you could spend some of it doing other things. From what I know (I might be wrong), people in Asian countries have a whole lot of homework, and barely have any free time at all.</p>

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<p>Two things that I notice: </p>

<p>One: American students with all our resources have the "freedom" to excel or fall behind. Unfortunately, while we can accomplish great things outside of the classroom, we dwindle away that time engaging in useless activities (C'mon, there's nothing good on t.v.). There are a few of us who do take up great hobbies: science fairs, photography, writing, sculpting, languages, etc. But, that can go for all of us. We all have the potential to excel in unique activities other than school. </p>

<p>Two: American students are not stupid. We do not lack innate intelligence to learn advanced material at a faster pace. And, that goes for most students and not just those at the top. Of course, I'm bias and rather defensive;). I think that our problem is that the school system is slow. There's no reason that only top students will learn AP Calc before college. If we taught at a pace starting from elementary school that would gradually lead us into Calculus, there wouldn't be a problem. That goes for all subjects. I've noticed that foreign students encounter advanced material earlier than us. When they graduate from their secondary schools, they end up know more than we because they've covered more. So, naturally, they are prepared better than we.</p>

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<p>I did a report in 8th grade comparing the Japanese and American education systems and there were quite a few interesting differences. (ie the teachers have passing time and the students don't change classrooms). Also, they have a national education system which means that there all the K-12 classes are structured and build off one another.</p>

<p>Who here has heard this phrase from a teacher before: "I don't know if your teacher covered this, so we'll go over it again." From what I understand from what I've read (though I don't have firsthand knowledge) there is very little overlapping in knowledge. Think about what you learned in 6th-8th grades in science. If you went to a public middle school like me it was generally a mishmash of random topics w/ a slight intro into the scientific method. It would be so easy to cover physics, chem, and bio in those three years. Many kids just lack the motivation, and American schools slow down to compensate.</p>

<p>So where did the Japanese kids get their encouragement? Well, once again, this is what I understand from what I've read, but the jist of it is that Japanese mothers often do not hold jobs, so their success is based on how successful their children are. As a result, they push their kids and don't let them fall behind. </p>

<p>Also, applying to Japanese high schools is like applying to American college....standardized tests, lots of studying, etc. If you're not good enough you go to a sub-par high school or a trade school. </p>

<p>Anyway, I found the differences between Japan's education system and ours quite fascinating.</p>

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<p>Here's an interesting website about the Japanese school system. At least in Jr. High. <a href="http://outpostnine.com/editorials/teacher.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://outpostnine.com/editorials/teacher.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>