The False Hope of Free College

Paying for College
1

Free college sounds great to families who can’t afford to pay today’s high tuition rates, but it hasn’t always worked as planned. In this Washington Post article, Jeffrey Selingo points out that in programs like Georgia’s HOPE scholarship money has often gone mostly to students who would graduate from college anyway, Furthermore, these programs do nothing to address the real problem of bloated higher ed costs.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/grade-point/wp/2016/02/23/the-false-hope-of-free-college/

Do you agree or disagree with the author’s points?

2

Ok…some FL univ president was annoyed that a doctor’s kids used BF for low/free tuition at a Floridal public. Big whoop. The guy probably pays the tuition thru income taxes and property taxes. Should they charge him for his kid attending public free K-12? And if his kids went to private K-12, then the state got a big break from that.

I like the idea of scholarships for A and B students. When aid is just need based, then states and the fed waste a lot of money on students who aren’t ready or shouldn’t be in college…and who are just biding time while avoiding the work force.

3

I think idea sounds so lovely on its face, but I just don’t see how it can work. There can’t be free college for everyone all the time, can there? Does anyone with a high school diploma get to go or is a GPA required? Does a retired 60 year old get free college? Or anyone who loses a job mid-career? Does the government/school system start tracking kids earlier for vocational vs. college in junior high school, like in other countries, so only those going to college are “college-ready”? Do you have to maintain a GPA (like in the Hope Program) to keep going? Do you have to maintain the same GPA at “tough” schools known for no grade inflation? Does the government eventually starting having “degree quotas” or impacted majors—or trying steer kids in what the government thinks is important.

I think free college for all would devolve into free community college for all, maybe with a transfer option to a university as a junior. I think people envision free college as being able to afford to go to that residential private school they wanted, but could not afford (or took loans to afford) for free. It won’t be that.

4

This article presumes that “free college” has to come from the same expensive bloated mess of a system that has made college as expensive as it is now. It also does not address other “backdoor” options to go to college, like starting from CC to show ability then finishing in university, an idea that would be more viable if community colleges had real funding to give a more solid education.

It’s been done in other countries and the biggest drawback is that people who have little to no chance of finishing college are not given a chance to attend without going to a CC-like school first. And perhaps that is how it should be.

5

First of all, the article does not always distinguish between free public university and free college (including private), which is sloppy.
Also, the purpose, as stated in the article, for the HOPE scholarship was to keep talented students in state. If the Florida program had the same purpose, then paying to keep wealthy students in state is not a waste.
Then the author points out that low-income students often drop out or lose their scholarship, and have other problems that are not financial. But this has nothing to do with the headline.
The article says that only one fifth of waivers go to students with family income of $30K or less. It is possible that every student in that bracket gets a waiver - but they are a small proportion of the total students. The author does not give us the information needed to make a judgment.

Finally, the conclusion states “the experience of a dozen states during the past decade shows that free tuition fails to change the college-going patterns of low-income students and quickly becomes an entitlement for those students who need it the least.”. Nothing in the article supports these statement.

6

All one needs to look back to when the City of New York schools offered free college.

It helped launch many whose parents lived through the Great Depression into careers as teachers, accountants, lawyers, etc. And home owners…

7

Why don’t you ask Finland if free college is possible for all? They somehow manage to do it. And what about Kalamazoo Michigan paying for all their high school graduates to go to in-state universities?

8

The person who wrote this article clearly dosesn’t know how HOPE works. 1st Hope has few levels to it. You need a 3.0 to qualify for 80% tuition. It’s Zen Miller that covers 100% tuition. You need a 3.7 for that. If you lose HOPE in college or don’t qualify for it right out of HS. You have a chance to get it at the 30, 60, 90 markers. There is also the HOPE grant that you can use for a trade from a technical college. You only need a 2.0 for that. There are lots of options out there for everyone IMO.

9

Not only is it a “big whoop,” the article and the title of the thread is one huge non-sequitur.

The weakness of the argument is in the first sentence of the post: “Free college sounds great to families who can’t afford to pay today’s high tuition rates, but it hasn’t always worked as planned.” That in itself is a false statement. If a family cannot afford to pay, and their kids meet the GPA requirements for the scholarships, then the kids DO GET basically a free college education.

What these people are actually wanting and complaining about is the money is not going to students who do not make the grade and probably should not be there anyway.

Taxpayers money and philanthropists money should be spent where the return is the greatest, not the least. You want to waste your own money fine, but it is not right to waste someone else’s.

Low caliber students are not a good investment as far as college goes, as they barely got out of high school. A 3.0 is not that high a goal; if you cannot make that, then need to improve your GPA before thinking others should be giving you money to go to college and flunk out with their money.

10

I believe Florda Bright Futures is funded by the lottery. But then cut beyond recognition by Governor Scott

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What these people are actually wanting and complaining about is the money is not going to students who do not make the grade and probably should not be there anyway.


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Exactly.

If CCs want to offer free online sub100 classes for those who aren’t college ready, but want to go to an on-campus CC or state univ, then fine. But wasting money one people who are just biding time is silly.

I wish the UC’s and CSU’s would require incoming frosh to complete/pass sub100 classes during the summer before fall semester stats, then that might help more graduate in 4 years and waste less money.

12

There should be free community college and technical schools to train and retrain workers tied into jobs programs local to those schools.

13

^^ high schools should be able to provide some of this…bring back shop and auto classes. The high school by my parents’ home still has auto shop classes.

Providing post high school often presents a boarding issue. Many kids bound for technical jobs are expected to “be on their own” after high school. Offering DE and other classes before high school graduation would be more effective…and less debt.

14

Bright futures has changed a lot. It used to cover tuition, but as tuition rose, the amount did not. Then in the last 3-4 years, the requiremen’s changed too, especially the test score needed. I think the figure is something like a 50% drop in the number of students qualifying now because of the test score requirements. It’s nice to have the $2500-3000, but it’s not going to keep someone in state if there is a good offer from OOS.

I think the statistics will show that the reduction in the number of BF grants awards disproportionately affect low income and minority students, and perhaps that principal will get his wish and the program will be dropped.

15

Such an annoying article. The statement “The cost of college continued to rise; someone else just footed the bill, mostly those who played the lottery.” just cracks me up. Yes, the tax on stupid people (the lottery) continues to make education affordable for hard working students in Georgia.

Oh the humanity.

As a Georgia resident, the most annoying thing that is happening with the HOPE is that the tuition is not going up, the FEES are going up. Fees aren’t covered by the HOPE scholarship, only the Zell (not Zen, lol) Miller. So the fees are getting to the point where it makes the in-state option not a slam-dunk anymore for bright kids to stay.

Also, the special interest groups, after YEARS of trying, have finally gotten their greedy, sweaty little hands on this big pile of money and have begun to pillage the reserves. Now it’s not the regular B kids who are getting this scholarship, it’s the kids taking VERY specific HOPE-Scholarship approved classes-the honors and the AP classes.

This was directly caused by the money not all going to the kids anymore. People are still playing the lottery like crazy here.

In addition, UGA and Tech are pretty much the only games in town, so to speak, in terms of a competitive education. It’s not attractive out there in Georgia for a smart kid outside of these two options, in my opinion. There are many solid public Georgia universities of varying sizes, but they are not aimed at the super ambitious high achieving kid that is the HOPE scholarship qualifier kid.

So, they make the HOPE really hard to qualify for, but then the options for the kids is pretty much limited to Tech and UGA (driving the admit rate to these two places down to near and elite levels), or they go to schools where they are a lot more accomplished (and ambitious) than most of their peers, and they don’t feel like it’s a good fit for them, and they end up transferring out of state or to a private school.

So, yet again, human greed wrecks what had the potential to be a pretty good thing. The average kid getting an affordable average college education is not the operational reality today of the HOPE.

16

And yet… somehow… most of the developed world is able to do it. We had a good go of it too in various times and palces.

Why is that I wonder?

17

Take a look at Canadian universities, not free but lower tuition. Huge classes, low retention and graduation rates and decrepit campuses due to no money for repairs…you get what you pay for.

18

Finland has 5.5 million population, less than NYC. They don’t send every kid off to college, they support trades and other paths. In some of these “they do it, why can’t we?” countries, it’s competitive even to get on a college track.

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Answer: Because it is not worth it to society to provide things that people do not want or need.

And lo and behold - the standard of living of these developed world college grads is still lower than American high school graduates who do the following:

  1. Get a job, any job, after high school
  2. Get married
  3. Do not have children until you are married

Therefore, the real question is: what did the free college get them? Answer: not much of anything. But, it sure sounds good and people like freebies, yet they never look back to see the actual results.

20

IMHO, Dual Enrollment (DE) is an effective resource that can cut the total college cost in half, yet only a few high school students actually take advantage of this “free” option. In the State of Florida, where the 50K number is frequently touted, the vast majority of these 50K students enrolled in DE courses only take a handful of courses, typically taken on high school campuses throughout the state. Even those students who have accumulated 60 or more DE credits, choose to graduate in 3 - 4-years, instead of 2, by taking less than 15 credits per semester (more often 12 credits/semester to maintain fulltime status). At current rates, a typical student in florida can reduce their total cost by approximately $42K ($21K x 2) by judicious selection of DE credits while in high school.

There is als0 the issue of Guidance Counselors forcing students to take AP courses in lieu of DE courses to boast their high school ranking, even at the detriment of these students scoring less than a 3 (or 4/5) on their AP exams, while a C grade on a DE course will gain transferable college credits.

Fortunately, Florida has no income taxes and I don’t think any of “local” property taxes goes to the state (major components are: City Taxes, School Board, Hospital District, etc. - ). If I not mistaken, the Scholarship is solely funded by lottery proceeds.