The Financial Aid System is Flawed

Paying for College
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<p>cptofthehouse - </p>

<p>I don’t really see it as a “flaw” - there are only “x” number of dollars to go around. We as a society have chosen to make those dollars available to the neediest of kids. If the parents finances had no impact then all kids would be “poor”.<br>
Even for the most needy kids, financial is lacking. Very few schools will provide “full need” whatever that is. Even for kids who qualify for pell grants and other federal grants they are also left with Stafford loans and a huge gap at the majority of schools.
The only federal aid my kids get are loans. Lots and lots of loans. Subsidized and now unsubsidized. Their schools give them a mixture of grant and merit aid but there is still quite a gap.
All kids whose parents endure a substantial sacrifice and decreased standard of living to send them to college should be thankful.</p>

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<p>It does put kids whose parents have the money but won’t use it for college in a financial “no man’s land”. This often happens with divorced families,but I have seen in intact families as well. Parents just don’t want to pay. Kid is stuck in that he does not qualify for any aid other than non subsidized loans. Heck, he is going to be stuck even coming up with enough loans to pay for college, as who will lend to an 18 year old without a co signer with credit? I do feel that is a flaw, but see no easy way to fix it. </p>

<p>I particularly loathe the fact that many of the state schools are now charging high tuitions even as they do not come close to meeting kids’ need. It does leave a lot kids hanging.</p>

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<p>It’s an old flaw in the system. Halfway through my sophomore year 20-some years ago, I stopped getting money from my parents. I was at my state flagship Since my family’s EFC was less than COA, I’d gotten some aid and didn’t have to cover the entire nut myself, but I still had to ramp up my work hours, ramp my spending down to bare bones, and take out some additional loans. In those days, it was much much easier to get subsidized loans directly from the federal government, so I finished with a reasonable amount of debt. A student in my situation nowadays would have a much tougher time of it, having to choose between heavy debt, taking some time off, or switching to a less expensive school. </p>

<p>I remember feeling furious that the system assumed I’d be getting money from my parents, even when I wasn’t. I remember feeling that it would be in the state’s best interests to give or loan me the money to get through school as quickly as possible so that I could start paying state income tax on a real salary. But I now understand why the system is set up the way it is.</p>

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<p>one other thing, Jade.</p>

<p>Finaid assumes summer earnings, but it appears (from your other posts) that you are attending summer school, and have “vacations” planned right up to your start at UCLA. You could work full time this summer, but you choose not to. Again, your (family’s) choice. </p>

<p>Why should Calif tax payers bail your family out?</p>

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<p>Bay- my town’s newpaper listed all the local grads with “scholarships” even the Cal Grants :EEK: annoucing online who’s income and assets were below the cut off, seemed inappropriate to me, but maybe most people don’t know what it means!</p>

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<p>Jade- in one way you are correct- there can be some points financially wherein a slight increase in EFC makes a big difference in aid. For instance a Pell Grant has a limit somewhere under $5k EFC. The PEll you would get with a $4k EFC would be tiny, but in the right circumstances it could allow you access to the ACG and SMART grant, so that $1000 higher EFC could remove access for around $6000 in grants. An arbitrary cut off making a difference.</p>

<p>Another issue is that FAFSA schools do not include home equity, Profile schools do. Because I have owned a home for 20+ years, I have a lot of equity, but I cannot afford to access that equity and still live in my home. So, my kids had to choose FAFSA schools or be lucky enough to get into one of the schools which limit HE as a percentage of AGI.</p>

<p>If your family is new to the improved circumstances, then maybe you have very little equity, maybe you would have been better off at a Profile school? $29k EFC might mean an income around $100k, that is not all that much in LA, but it is a lot more than some one making $40k. It seems like $40k AGI is about the top income level for kids getting full financial aid.</p>

<p>You are right, you could have a friend whose parents just split up, formerly the same income as you, but now going with only the mom’s minimum income, and now getting financial aid.</p>

<p>Yes, we knew people who appeared to be luckier than us- didn’t make that much less but got into the Ivy with an amazing no loan package and all that smaller school attention, whilst we were fighting to UC bureaocracy. Not fair, but that’s life. Don’t be bitter, try not to compare yourself to others, just make the best of your situation. If you are in at UCLA that is a fabulous accomplishment.</p>

<p>I agree it would stink to go to CC and then have to reapply for a transfer after you already got in, but I am also glad we did not make the decisions that would have resulted in huge loans. Ds had offers at places like USC and Vassar, but tempting as they were, they had huge loan components and with DD done now, I am glad those loans are not facing us,</p>

<p>Once again, they will get maybe $4800 Pell Max and approx $6-7K CA grant. Did you qualify for Cal Grant? If not, then that is both the feds and the state saying your family has the resources to pay for school or if you need to take loans due to cash flow, the feel you have the resources to pay off the loans.</p>

<p>Can you talk to your parents and determine whether they will pay off the loans?</p>

<p>You can work during the school year, maybe make $2500 on cmapus jobs and oyu could work full time in the summers and make $3-5k.</p>

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<p>Jade is going to UCLA which is a FAFSA only school. For whatever reason, family is not going to help pay for college but family EFC is such that student is not going to be eligible for FA. It is a situation that happens a lot. I’ve actually met parents who are sure that scholarships are going to pay their kids’ ways through college, and that is the way those kids are going to have to go. If this is known up front, a kid can look for those ways, and should find out where the family stands in terms of FA. What aid does FAFSA make them qualified for? What colleges will be good for aid, for merit money? But sometimes but the info does not come at the right time.</p>

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<p>I understand what you are saying perfectly clearly. What YOU don’t seem to understand is that the financial aid system is set up to help students whose parents CANNOT give them any money…not for students whose family IS NOT giving them any money. In YOUR case, the FAFSA has determined that your family COULD pay up to $29K per year for your college education. That same FAFSA has determined that the “other kid’s” family can pay nothing. There is the difference. </p>

<p>I’m not expecting you to like this…BUT it is the way the system is designed and it is not a secret. You could have determined your approximate EFC at least a year ago. You could have made different decisions about college choices. Your family could have chosen NOT to buy a home (yes…some families make this choice when it is close to the time their kids are going to go to college). </p>

<p>The family with the EFC of zero doesn’t have the choices you have. </p>

<p>Please understand that none of us here are happy that folks with incomes such as yours (and mine and that of many other posters here) have EFCs of $30K per year…or so. But that is the way it is.</p>

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<p>Some of us don’t have control over our family. I can’t go up to my parents and tell them to sell our home so I can go to college. </p>

<p>My family and I are not one person. I am me.</p>

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<p>Jade, you don’t like it, but financial aid considers you and your family to be a unit. Our society says that the family educates the children. You will have to deal with this fact.</p>

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<p>Jade, you are caught in a situation that is not fair in that you cannot choose your family. Just as those who have parents who cannot by financial aid standards afford college did not have the choice. The answer is not taking away the options from the category that is getting some financial aid. The whole idea here is to attempt to give more choice. That means choices that sometimes are not to your benefit. Have you talked to your parents about your options, Jade? What suggestions do they have? Are you close enough to UCLA to commute?</p>

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<p>Wow, JadeLi … “irrational arguments,” “intellectually dishonest,” and “pandering to extremist political groups”?? I don’t understand how thumper’s post was any of that. Perhaps I am wrong, but I sense that you feel the government (after all, that is who funds public schools) owes you whatever you think you deserve. The problem is, funding is limited. The line has to be drawn somewhere. And I can tell you that with an EFC like yours, your family is not poor.</p>

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<p>tell them to sell our home so I can go to college</p>

<p>Sorry but it isn’t " our" home, if it was you could take out a loan for the equity.</p>

<p>Now who is being dishonest?</p>

<p>It might not be something you want to admit, but in the USA, an 18 year old, is assumed to be an adult for most purposes & many adults are not waiting for their parents to be paying for their continued expenses, but are supporting themselves. </p>

<p>What adults do, is look at the situation, identify their goal and make a plan to get from here to there. You can’t change anyone but yourself, to quote an old aphorism, and you can either spend time complaining that Life isn’t fair!, or you can put energy into achieving your goal.</p>

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<p>Like I said, if your income is supposely low, then sell your house and live in an apartment. Financial EFC looks at the value of your ‘recently’ purchased home. Home equity factors into the EFC number as well. Who told you to buy a home? You could have easily no bought a home and still have cash for both UCLA and a rental apartment and could have lived happilly ever after.</p>

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<p>Jade, under your system, colleges and the government would award money to students when their parents don’t give them money. Fair enough. But under that system, NO parent would give their child ANY money. Parents would tell their children “Sorry, but we just can’t afford to give you anything” or “Sorry, we’d rather spend the money on other things”. That would include parents who are earning much, much more than your parents. </p>

<p>Since every college student would then have need, the available amount of aid would be divvied up among far more college students. Many students, not much money–figure that every single student would receive maybe a few thousand dollars a year. Students like you, whose parents aren’t going to pay anything, would still end up taking out massive loans. Poorer students, who are unable to get any loans, would end up at community colleges, and would then take years to complete their four-year degrees since they would need to save up for tuition and fees at a school like a UC or a Cal State. And wealthier students would then get money under the table from their parents, who would be laughing all the way to the bank. </p>

<p>As much as the current system has its flaws, it’s better than the above.</p>

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<p>Jade, the problem does not lie within the Federal Aid system, but instead lies with your family. Blame your parents for setting aside no money for you when you were a kid or teen. Blame them for buying such an expensive house that they could not afford to make the mortgage payments and help you pay for school. Your parents *****ed up. And because of that, you will probably have to go to a different university. Because borrowing 80k in loans is stupid.</p>

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<p>I don’t think it’s fair to blame Jade’s parents, either. She says her parents arrived here only a couple of years ago, with little money. Paying for their child’s education is only one priority among many: building up emergency and retirement savings and buying a house are others. They and Jade probably had little idea about how the college financial aid game works, or that there were other alternatives to explore (e.g. privates with significant merit money, going to CC for the first two years).</p>

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<p>Jade…neither can anyone else. </p>

<p>For other posters…I believe UCLA is a FAFSA only school and does not consider home equity in their financial aid computations. So Jade’s home equity (if any) doesn’t factor into the finaid award. BUT UCLA is a public university. The amount of institutional money awarded (the money awarded above and beyond what low income folks get from the federal government…which Jade’s family didn’t qualify for…by a lot) is limited.</p>

<p>Jade…question asked…are you currently a U.S. citizen?</p>

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<p>Jade,</p>

<p>When I first graduated from High School, I had a decision to make. My parents would not pay for my college education and I could not afford the loans on my own. Our EFC was considerally lower than yours but it might as well have been 29k because it was just as out of reach. Since I was put into this horrible situation because my parents wouldn’t help, I was forced to make a decision: Take on 20k in loans each year or wait to start college. 20k in loans was out of the question…so I waited ( a little too long, maybe). Now at 33, I am 3/4 of the way through my Bachelor’s degree and can more easily fund my own education. Waiting actually benefited me tremendously. Having began my career, I was able to locate an employer who pays 100% of my tuition for me…all I have to cover are my books and misc expenses (paper, pens, pencils, etc). No loans, no worries. When I am done, as long as I am still with my current employer, I will start on my Master’s degree…and they will pay 100% of that tuition bill as well. </p>

<p>Instead of being angry about your situation, and feeling entitled to a free education, you need to prepare yourself for the situation at hand. 80k in loans is stupid, as others have already stated. Consider waiting a couple of years and enter the job market instead. Build yourself some capital, look at employers who offer education benefits, pick up a few courses at the local Community College, and count your blessings that you are now in the United States, where life isn’t fair but freedom enables you the ability to choose your own destiny.</p>

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<p>That statement is highly unlikely, unless the family are refugees, or were US citizens living overseas. It is virtually impossible to obtain a US visa without financial sponsorship, either corporate or family. It’s possible the family had few hard assets, but it is likely they came over based on a good-paying job, which now, three years later, is in the six figure range.</p>