The Frist Filibuster continues after 1 week...

<p>Bush has done what he set out to, divide and conquer. I didn't provide a point of view but did correct misinformation spewed by republicans from the WH down to college repub clubs. A college student, assuming you are one, should be reading for truth, not propaganda and agendized talking points Karl Rove puts out. If this is not a subject appropriate for this web site than your comments were not appropriate either. </p>

<p>Byrd is the acknowledged master of the senate rules. That you don't like having the facts put out for all to see is just what President Bush has encouraged. And seeing the facts should not cause you to become so devisive. I offered articles to disspell propaganda with no factual basis in truth. Anger is fear based. Turn on cspan2 now and have a look at what Frist and Byrd are saying now.</p>

<p>you opened the door on the killing by car accident and though it may pain you to see this:Mrs. Bush ran stop sign in fatal crash</p>

<p>AUSTIN, Texas (AP) - Details in a 1963 accident report say that Laura Bush, then 17, ran a stop sign in the Texas crash that killed a friend in another car. The report, adding information to previous reports of the crash, was released to The Associated Press on Wednesday. <a href="http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/e1698.htm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/e1698.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Thanks for the support. In response to above criticisms: One person cites a 61% appellate approval. If that is true, that means Bush's approval rating and Clinton's are roughly equal. What's unusual here? BOTH served when Republicans controlled Congress. Clinton faced a majority of the opposing party and got the same amount confirmed as Bush with friendlies. This tells you the effect the filibuster has had, and also that Republicans under the Clinton didn't filibuster. Also one other guy keeps citing facts like "and only 5 out of 20 were rejected by a full vote". This means they died in committee or weren't brought up for a full vote by the party. This doesn't mean ANY of them were filibustered, but that their confirmation died in other legitimate ways. The issue at hand is nominees coming through committees and being unable to get a full vote. This is UNPRECEDENTED. For goodness sake, when Sen. Lincoln Chafee supports the nominees it should be obvious to all of you liberals that the nominee is not some sort of activist religious zealot.
Also I think the ones citing Republican filibusters are exaggerating their definition of filibuster. Sure, Dems dragged out debate for a few hours on the Condi Rice nomination, but it wasn't considered a filibuster. In many of the cited "filibusters" the goal wasn't to kill a nominee, so was it really a filibuster? I think not.
I also find it interesting that one of the nominees comes from the California Supreme Court. How does an activist conservative get on there? O and by the way ALL of the nominees come highly recommended by the nonpartisan American Bar Association.
I really wanted to see some good Social Security legislation before Frist had to do this, but seeing all the irate liberals here rant and rant without real facts to support them, I can't wait.</p>

<p>Senate Republicans' Bid to Destroy the Filibuster Option, And Push Through Ultraconservative Federal Judges:
It Seems Likely the "Nuclear Option" Actually Will Be Used
By JOHN W. DEAN [Nixon White House/ Watergate]</p>

<p><a href="http://writ.news.findlaw.com/dean/20050408.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://writ.news.findlaw.com/dean/20050408.html&lt;/a>
"That is particularly unfortunate given that Senate Democrats represent the majority of Americans - as Washington Post columnist E. J. Dionne Jr. has pointed out. Dionne found, based on July 2004 Census Bureau figures, that the 44 Democratic Senators represent 148,026,027 people, while the 55 Republican Senators represent 144,765,157. (Independent Vermont Senator Jim Jeffords, who votes with the Democrats on such issues, represents 310,697, making the gap even greater.)</p>

<p>The filibuster could hardly be more important than it is at this particular point in history. Congressional Republicans have become a rubber stamp for anything the Bush White House wants. House Democrats have been effectively neutered by the rules of that body, where the majority controls. As a result, Senate Democrats, with their filibuster, are the only check on Bush's bid to impose hard right wing philosophy on the federal judiciary. And Bush is hell-bent on pushing his nominees through: He has resubmitted twenty judicial nominees turned down by the Congress earlier.</p>

<p>Yet ultimately, the issue should not be solely a partisan one. It is an issue of what is in the long-term interest of both parties: Should the minority party (whichever it might be) have a say in federal judicial nominations - including Supreme Court nominations - as it has throughout the history of the Republic? Or should it be utterly shut out?</p>

<p>The issue is also this - and again, it should not be partisan: Should the character of the Senate be changed profoundly and for the sake of a questionable goal. "</p>

<p>"The April 4, 2005 media briefing by the conservative coalition campaigning to kill the filibuster - mentioned above -- was broadcast by C-Span. There, former White House counsel C. Boyden Gray, who is chairman of the Committee for Justice (an organization working to turn the federal judiciary to the hard right), spoke. However, he spoke falsely.</p>

<p>Gray claimed that the action by the Democrats in filibustering judicial nominees is unprecedented. Senator Frist had earlier called the action by the Democrats radical.</p>

<p>The reality is that there is plenty of filibuster precedent - and indeed, Frist himself participated in a Democratic nominee's filibuster.</p>

<p>In fact, the Republicans' tactics have become worse than the usual Washington balderdash, claptrap, hokum, drivel, and humbug. Rather, they are a prime example of the subject addressed by the renowned moral philosopher and emeritus Princeton philosophy professor, Harry G. Frankfurt, in his new book On ******** (which is climbing the New York Times bestseller list). As the professor states, "The … realm of politics [is] replete with instances of ******** so unmitigated that they can serve among the most indisputable and classic paradigms of the concept." That is precisely the case here.</p>

<p>The nonpartisan Congressional Research Service study found that from 1949 to 2002 thirty-five presidential nominations had been filibustered, including seventeen judicial nominations. "
See table 2 for the Clinton years and repub blocks of his noms-
<a href="http://www.senate.gov/reference/resources/pdf/RS20801.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.senate.gov/reference/resources/pdf/RS20801.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>"Finally, according to the well-publicized finding by law professor Herman Schwartz, in March 2000, Majority Leader Frist himself participated in the filibuster against Clinton judicial nominee Richard Paez. (In the end, Judge Paez was confirmed for a seat on the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit after a cloture vote.)"</p>

<p>Clinton noms 65 killed by repub-
"Almost two hundred editorial page writers have expressed deep concern over these GOP tactics - both Bush's bid to pack the federal courts with hard-right conservatives, and Senate Republicans' White-House-supported bid to destroy the Senate's quality as a uniquely deliberative institution.</p>

<p>Among the more illuminating of the editorials is one by Stuart Taylor Jr. -- the legal writer for the nonpartisan National Journal. Taylor counsels moderate Republicans to think twice about joining their fire-breathing brethren.</p>

<p>Taylor notes the Democratic filibusters are merely employing tactics similar to those of Republicans used from 1995 to 2000 to kill some sixty-five Clinton judicial nominations. And he points out that these tactics, "together with Bush's insistence on total victory -- have brought the process to the brink of total war. And unless six or more Republicans show more restraint than anyone else has shown, the war will come." Taylor concludes the stakes do not justify the drastic action of destroying the Senate, and transforming it "into a rump stamp" for any president's judicial selections."
"Americans are going to see the havoc Republicans have caused, and perceive to whom the labels of "radical" and "extremist" rightly belong.</p>

<p>Destroying the Filibuster May Seal Frist's Fate</p>

<p>Senator Bill Frist, in particular, should consider giving up the nuclear option. Frist plainly wants to be President of the United States. But if he pulls the trigger on the nuclear option, that will be the end of his chances.</p>

<p>Certainly, using the "nuclear option" will give Frist an IOU with the hard right. It may even gain him the Republican nomination in 2008 or thereafter. But it will also guarantee that when he runs, he will lose. When the rest of the country understands that it was Frist who was responsible for the destruction of the Senate, his chances for the Presidency will be over. "</p>

<p>"Forgetting" the Fortas Filibuster: Gray's False Claim</p>

<p>"The April 4, 2005 media briefing by the conservative coalition campaigning to kill the filibuster - mentioned above -- was broadcast by C-Span. There, former White House counsel C. Boyden Gray, who is chairman of the Committee for Justice (an organization working to turn the federal judiciary to the hard right), spoke. However, he spoke falsely."</p>

<p>Chaffee was told he would not get a dime from the RNC for his reelection if he voted down on this.</p>

<p>Filibusters have been around since 1840's.</p>

<p>Ma'am, you need to settle down. You have gotten way out of hand. This is not a forum for adults to spew unwanted opinions. If you are an adult (and I'm certain that you are), please resign to providing information about college selection, and let us argue about our political opinions. Adults have plenty of forums in which they can debate.</p>

<p>About Mrs. Bush running a stop sign: Mr. Kennedy was intoxicated when he drove off the bridge, immediately killing the female who was with him. That's terrible and could happen to many people.</p>

<p>HOWEVER, when Mr. Kennedy went home, he committed a felony. He had the family's cronies "take care" of the body. He slept in, ate breakfast, and THEN phoned the authorities. Also, Massachussetts state law requires that an autopsy be performed on a victim of an automobile accident. Somehow, this was avoided.</p>

<p>Another missing piece of evidence from the Democratic party is Senator Clinton's senior thesis from Wellesley. This, according to college guidelines, is supposed to be on file. Interestingly enough, however, it is not. I would give my arm to read it. I'll bet is screams communism.</p>

<p>Now, sweetkidsmom, you are not being very motherly. Surely you do not treat your children in such a way. I watch CSPAN2, thank you very much, and I also watch the Senators' statements. By the way, I saw Senators Clinton and Kennedy standing together the other day, and I didn't realize he could still stand up that straight. I wonder when his liver will fall out, by the way.</p>

<p>Okay, that was mean and inappropriate. My apologies. I could ramble about the right in equal degree, and I feel that it is extremely important to see everything from every possible point of view. It is unfortunate that you and PALEOCON cannot.</p>

<p>Indeed filibusters have been around since the 1840s, but it does not mean that they need to be used simply to keep a judge from taking the bench. IMHO, we have far too many left-of-liberal ( = radical) activist judges determining the law for themselves. So much for checks and balances. While it is necessary to have moderate judges, a few right-wingers wouldn't hurt...they would balance out the partisanship of the liberal ones.</p>

<p>Case in point: The judge in FL who ruled that a 14 year old girl could have an abortion without her parents' consent. The girl is a CHILD! Assuming that she is of average size for her age, the procedure would most certainly leave her permanently sterile. While a pregnancy would also be traumatic, it should still be up to her parents to decide if the procedure is acceptable. She lives under their roof, and until she leaves her home, she should be fully subject to her parents' judgment, providing it is neither violent nor detrimental in any other way.</p>

<p>I know you do live in California (which is a completely different culture than some of ours), but I feel that you might need to have some time for personal introspection about your own opinions and the way in which you treat others. As an adult, you should try to set an example for us as future parents. Becoming contentious, abrasive, and critical is not the way to do this.</p>

<p>While we appreciate your information (it helps all of us see the situation from the other side), statistics can be used to prove ANYTHING. Keep this in mind so that you will not be subject to propaganda.</p>

<p>Best Wishes, and God Bless.</p>

<p>Laura Bush killed her friend who was in the car with her in an automobile accident, much like Kennedy. I don't think that any Bush supporters should bring up the "driving while intoxicated" bit, either. Hell, the Bushes have more skeletons in their closets than any other family I can think of. </p>

<p>I am pretty sure that a 14 year old giving birth would be more of a problem than a 14 year old receiving an abortion. It is not her parents' body nor is it their right to decide whether or not she may have an abortion. It is absolutely absurd to maintain that someone is capable of giving birth but not old enough to have an abortion, and it is certainly done to perpetuate an anti-choice agenda, rather than to ensure the poor girl's best interest.</p>

<p>Fids I agree with your assessment. But ivy I am from the south from a Republican family and use to vote republican(Reagan twice and bush the 1st). My roots are so firmly entrenched in southern history I can tell you the crops and how many slaves they owned. In fact a county in Georgia is named for my family. My family history is all military and very republican. Husband is retired Colonel USMC and Naval Academey grad. He voted Reagan as well.
Also much of California is very republican, the Sac Valley, the mountainous areas and southern California. So many republicans like myself have left the party and continue to do so, I worked in the last election and spoke to thousands of voters. Many republicans fed up with whats happening to their party. </p>

<p>As for the info you gave on the possible complications of a 14 year old and an abortion I have to agree with Fids on this. What you say is incorrect and laced with ideology, I am an RN, and I have first hand knowledge of the issues from a medical perspective. I wasn't aware there were any liberal judges in Florida, my home state for several generations. </p>

<p>Many people are saying Bush makes Nixon look honest and Reagan look smart.</p>

<p>"I'll bet is screams communism."</p>

<p>right</p>

<p>because anyone who isnt an ignorant reactionary wacko is a communist out to eat your children and turn your kids gay</p>

<p>"Becoming contentious, abrasive, and critical is not the way to do this"</p>

<p>hmmm</p>

<p>like most conservatives(ie those who call themselves fiscal conservatives and end up running huge deficits giving money to their campaign donors) you are a hypocrite as well when you say</p>

<p>" you are not being very motherly. Surely you do not treat your children in such a way...I saw Senators Clinton and Kennedy standing together the other day, and I didn't realize he could still stand up that straight. I wonder when his liver will fall out, by the way."</p>

<p>or maybe you prefer the unabrasive nature of Bolton who chased after subordinates who disagreed with them and threw things at them</p>

<p>or perhaps you're referring to Dick Cheney's comment in which he said
"**** You" to Senator Leahy</p>

<p>the current atmosphere in the senate reminds me an incident in the ante-bellum senate, when a white racist cane-whipped a northern liberal advocating the end of slavery</p>

<p>unfortunately, if I ever end up as a representative or senator, I won't be easily intimidated by conservatives and will be equally pugnacious to the other side</p>

<p>btw, my favorite quote of the day is "I don't want to impeach them[judges] I want to impale them" this was said by Senator Coburn</p>

<p>oh and finally, the bush family is not the epitome of morality</p>

<p>Laura killed her friend while driving stoned
Bush was an alcoholic until age 40 and has 2 drunk driving tickets
the bush daughters are alcoholics and have had the secret service bail their boyfriends out of jail
Neil Bush has a taste for asian hookers</p>

<p>etc etc etc</p>

<p>sempitern555,</p>

<p>Ivy is a high school senior from rural east Tennessee. He hasn't had his first college politics class at Dartmouth yet. </p>

<p>Best wishes Ivy! Farewell.</p>