I also think Catholic universities have done a better job of trying to continue their missions while finding a way to be inclusive to their increasingly diverse populations. In addition to the ones mentioned above you have DePaul (which has almost 15,000 undergrads), University of Dayton, and the University of San Diego, all of which appear to be thriving. Having said that, Catholic schools generally are in cities so that tends to add to the inclusive feel and community engagement. I saw this from the perspective of a non-Catholic (and basically non-religious) person whose daughter attends an all-girls Catholic high school.
^ DePaul has shed a lot of its “Catholic” identity in recent years. Even their mascot is literally a demon lol. In the Chicago area, it’s viewed as basically a secular school and I don’t think anyone who wants a Catholic (religious) environment would find that there.
IMO there are differences (cultural, philosophical, diversity, funding) between Christian, Catholic, and Jesuit schools, all of which seem to be for the most part being lumped together in this thread. I believe that the article is only referencing Christian, and just a couple of examples at that.
Hmm…I understand your concern, but I do not necessarily agree. I see and know of several thriving Christian colleges -not just Catholic either! Take a look at Liberty U or Biola for example. I think it really depends on a few things: Are they fully accredited? Do they accept federal funding (FAFSA, scholarships) ? Where are they located? (Schools in popular states like FL or CA, or in the NE corridor seem to do well overall)? Are their academic programs considered “on par” with those of larger public institutions, and marketed as such? All of these factors really help schools thrive. Those that do not showcase these things are often the ones drowning.
In general parlance “Christian colleges” do not include Catholic colleges, Jesuit or otherwise. There was a post here on CC in which a self identified Christian student asked if he would be welcome at Notre Dame. To many self identified Christians Catholics are not Christians.
So many Christian colleges started out as church-denomination schools. Being supported by churches in the denomination meant costs were kept low. And they enjoyed an endless supply of students as many families automatically sent their kids. One side of my family is a good example of this as 15 of my cousins all went to the same college.
Fast forward some 30+ years and things have changed dramatically. Denominations have in many ways gone by the wayside in favor of nondemonational churches. Colleges are no longer supported financially the way they were in the past. Costs have skyrocketed while schools and programs remain small. Loyalty to these colleges is gone as parents aren’t denominationally committed and even if they are costs are a big consideration. Students also aren’t keen on attending a small school in a rural area with limited programs when they can go to a popular state with more amenities.
I do think some Christian colleges even in popular areas are going to suffer. Biola (because of its reliance on international students plus its cost) was listed in the “perish” category of that recent “college risk” study. Tuition is an undeniable force in all of this. There is a school near me where 25% of the graduation class is going to Grand Canyon University because their partnership program makes total cost end up being about $15k a year for many students. This is cheaper than their local state school. If Christian colleges cannot find ways to lower tuition they simply cannot compete.
@hopedaisy Isn’t Grand Canyon University also a Christian college?
tomSrofBoston - you got me thinking about this, and I think your statement
can go both ways. If we asked our Catholic friends if they went to Christian schools or churches, they’d say “huh? we go to catholic school/church” – not implying they aren’t Christian by faith, but that the schools they go to are Catholic. I don’t know any Catholic who would say they went to a Christian School. So . . back to your statement . . . I wonder if the self-identified Christians who think Catholics aren’t Christian stems from Catholics who don’t identify their church or school as Christian in the first place. ??? just sitting here wondering about this on a lazy afternoon. No right or wrong.
I do completely agree with HopeDaisy’s thoughts on it; how Christian schools started; and how they need to find a way to compete as broad church support isn’t there as much.
@bgbg4us Christian colleges, as commonly referred to, are evangelical/fundamentalist in sponsorship. Many expect all students to adhere to certain practices and norms. Catholic colleges and main line Protestant colleges e.g. Southern Methodist University, do not have such expectations.
Christian colleges aren’t necessarily frozen in time and can adapt. I have a sophomore at Hope College in Holland, MI, and have had several generations of family members attend. Hope has historically been affiliated with the Reformed Church in America, but these days it also has a significant Catholic contingent and a full time Catholic priest. My parents might have a hard time recognizing the place if they were still alive.
https://hope.edu/news/2017/campus-life/saint-benedict-institute-hires-priest-chaplain-to-serve-hope-college-catholics.html . Tuition is $34K. Hope also has a young new president with a background in finance instead of academia. He has ambitious plans to grow the endowment with the long term goal of fully funding tuition for all students. (I’m sure he wasn’t factoring a global pandemic and financial collapse into his plans.) And they just made a bunch of new appointments to the Board of Trustees that greatly increases the Board’s diversity.
Yes it is, although with its partnership programs making tuition, room and board so affordable for many, the number of students who identify as “Christian” is becoming a minority.
My point to my post is that cost is becoming the major factor for families when deciding on whether a Christian college is worth it. Many families now have no loyalty to their church schools because they have become out of reach for the middle class. Hope College in Michigan was mentioned, but its tuition, room and board is still $48k a year. Its academic scholarship for an above-average student is $13k a year making it $35k a year, still much more than state schools. But more importantly for Christian families, what exactly do their students get that makes it worth the extra money? Hope College (along with many other similar schools) has moved so far away from its heritage of beliefs in order to stay “relevant” that it’s hard to know what you’re “getting” extra that you couldn’t find elsewhere for a lot less of an investment.
@hopedaisy Regarding Hope College, the top merit scholarship is the Trustee Scholarship for $22K per year. Hope College also lets you stack merit scholarships so my student’s total merit aid is $28K/year, which given a COA of $48K, puts our net COA close to our in state public schools.
Also I’m not sure what you mean by “moved so far away from its heritage of beliefs” and where you got that idea. If you mean no longer drawing heavily from the small RCA denomination that founded it in 1862, then that’s true. If you mean making chapel voluntary, then that’s true too. But if you mean Hope is diluting its Christian beliefs by being more ecumenical (such as welcoming our Catholic brothers and sisters in Christ) and seeking greater diversity, then I strongly disagree.
It’s funny because most people on CC aren’t familiar with Hope at all, but those who post about it almost always have accused it of being too conservative and overly religious. This accusation of being too woke (implied by your comment that Hope is trying to stay “relevant”) or having diluted its religious character is a new one for me.
While I’m on my Hope soapbox, let me point out that USNWR released its 2019 rankings of colleges and universities for undergraduate research and creative projects. They invited college presidents, chief academic officers, deans of students and deans of admissions from more than 1,500 schools to nominate up to 15 institutions with “stellar examples of undergraduate research/creative projects. Colleges and universities that received 10 or more nominations are ranked here.” Hope College tied for #23 with Swarthmore and Cornell. https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/undergrad-research-programs. My student got to participate in a 10 week paid research project sponsored by Hope during the summer BEFORE freshman year, including 4 weeks at the NASA Goddard Space Flight Center.
Cities. That is their huge advantage. Here on the west coast we have seven Catholic universities. What do they all have in common?
Seattle University
Gonzaga University (in central Spokane)
University of Portland
University of San Francisco
Santa Clara University (in the heart of Silicon Valley)
Loyola Marymont (in central Los Angeles)
San Diego University
Every major metro area on the west coast except Sacramento has a Catholic University. None of them are tucked out in small towns, they are all in major cities, and mostly in the centers of major cities.
BYU seems to be thriving. Tuition is $6k per year. Probably not a coincidence.
There are more Catholic schools than that in the west:
Notre Dame de Namur (it is closing)
Dominican (historically Catholic)
Mount St Mary’s
St Mary’s College of California
Holy Name
Marymount California College
Thomas Aquinas
JohnPaul the Great
Marylhurst (oregon)
St. Martins (washington)
Catholic schools are traditionally urban because that’s the population they were trying to serve. Many Catholic schools have pretty good basketball teams because, again, they were trying to serve the neighborhoods they were in and wanted a way to get kids involved that was cheaper than football.
There are still Catholic colleges that hold very strict expectations with regards to adhering to Catholic Church teaching. Some of the colleges on this list, such as Thomas Aquinas, Franciscan University, and Ave Maria, come to mind: https://newmansociety.org/college/
Franciscan University recently banned a book that portrays the Virgin Mary as sexual – and fired a department chair for teaching it.
Also, I don’t get people getting worked up over the “Catholic” vs. “Christian” terminology distinction. Catholic schools refer to themselves as “Catholic” (not “Christian”) and if someone was looking for a 'Catholic" school they would use the term 'Catholic" school (ditto Protestant institutions that use the term “Christian”).
But then isn’t “Catholic” a subset of “Christian”, and “Jesuit” a subset of “Catholic”?
My alma matter(Samford University) seems to be doing well, they keep having record enrollments year after year. It is still a Christian university, though not quite as conservative as it once was and it’s association with Southern Baptists is not as heavy as before.
My denomination’s college(Welch college) seems to be doing okay as well, though it is much smaller and a lot more conservative.
It might help that Samford is in Birmingham and Welch is in Nashville.
In this post, BYU was named or inferred to as a Christian college by a couple of posters. It is not. BYU is a Mormon college. The Mormon belief is not the same as the Christian beliefs. In fact, they are vastly different and therefore, Mormons are not considered Christians. Additionally, attendees would have to be of the Mormon faith to get the discounted tuition.
https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/christian disagrees.
https://www.pewresearch.org/2007/12/04/public-opinion-about-mormons/ indicates that most people polled in 2007 answered “yes” to the question “Are Mormons Christian?”.