<p>So your initial post is basically... Finance job market is going to suck for a few years, and it'll bounce back when the economy bounces back?</p>
<p>...</p>
<p>Who doesn't know this, exactly?</p>
<p>That's fine-but you've been warned. Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it.</p>
<p>Who doesn't know this?</p>
<p>"sup," "barrons," "laxattack," and all the other 145 people who posted on the thread "Why Investment Banking?"</p>
<p>There's a lot of people out there who are happy to see Wall Street go down (evidenced in this thread) and a lot of people who are essentially discouraging HS students and young college undergrads from pursuing a career in banking. They cite personal anecdotes. They post links to job cuts. They gaze into a crystal ball and joyously exclaim that the end is near.</p>
<p>Well, sorry to break it to you, but investment banks are going to be here to stay for quite awhile.</p>
<p>The End.</p>
<p>If people who want to be bankers can't interpret bitterness and take all their career cues from a single forum then they're not going to make it in finance anyway, so your point is kind of moot. I think this crash is useful for removing the tendrils, if you will, of some of the larger institutionals from individual companies--historically I don't know of any time when banks have taken larger stakes in companies than they've been taking over the last 8 or so years. HFs need regulation, investment banks need better regulation, but I think this is all fairly obvious.</p>
<p>^Definitely agreed.</p>
<p>I never said it won't bounce back. But I have said it is very volatile as the recent crashes (which seem to be coming faster and faster) attest. And it will be down for the grad coming out the next few years so they should seriously think about other more meaningful work. Maybe the Peace Corps or Teach for America. It will teach you to be a real human being.</p>
<p>Peace Corps? Teach for America?</p>
<p>No thank you...</p>
<p>Barrons, you're telling future investment bankers to work at PC and TFA? What exactly are you doing to enrich your life, Mr. I-work-in-Corporate-America? I guess you're not a real human being either. C'est la vie.</p>
<p>I taught school for a year in a poor area. It was very educational. Actually TFA grads are recruited by Ibanks. Many leaders in business and government were in the Peace Corps.</p>
<p>Once again you think you know it all and you know nothing.</p>
<p>wow I can totally see who's being a total jerk in this debate. thanks for wasting my time for reading your not so informative post.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I want to politely laugh at those who think that the financial sector (investment banking, to be more specific) is heading towards its demise and those who think that the current economic maelstrom is the metaphorical equivalent of an old fart on his deathbed. </p>
<p>Yes, the economy is in a recession. Yes, the financial markets are in a frenzy. Yes, investment banking is being adversely affected. Comps will go down. Hiring freezes are an almost guarantee. Job cuts are imminent (if not apparent). Frankly, the whole US economy is in deep trouble due to years of fiscal irresponsibility on the part of the private and public sector alike. This much is clear. And, to any of those who are seriously considering investment banking as a career, it is also very blatant that the hours are horrendous, the lifestyle often unbearable, the comp relatively very high (yes, even in today's markets), and the analyst work is generally tedious and "boring."</p>
<p>All of this has been brought to light, and in a sense magnified, with the recent events in the global markets. Rightfully so, I add, because the financial world is definitely in need of a reality check that Wall Street certainly is not some impregnable avenue to heaven.</p>
<p>However, it is even more important for advocates and naysayers alike to remember that the financial markets are inextricably tied to the economy. It's basic macroeconomics. If the economy is healthy, the financial sector (see: investment banking) is healthy. If the economy is poor, the financial sector will suffer as well. The economy is cyclical which means recessions, slowdowns, and downturns are all inevitable. Also inevitable, then, is economic growth and a resurgence of the financial markets.</p>
<p>So, to all those uneducated and clearly ill-informed masochists who are too quick to celebrate the demise of the investment banking field (here's looking at you, barrons and laxattack), put away the party hats and swathe your mind around this thought: investment banking is a lucrative field that will not go away any time soon. And if you need me to explain to you why, obviously you have NO IDEA as to what investment banking is all about. </p>
<p>Please, let's stop talking about how investment banking is no longer relevant or how the hours are brutal. The first is false and the latter is a fact made clear multiple times. The bottom line is that those who are dedicated and truly interested in finance will continue to pursue a career in investment banking despite current market conditions and despite the grueling hours. Those who are inadequate and incapable of succeeding in a tough and competitive field will continue to point out the unglamorous aspects of the job and laugh when thousands of people lose their jobs a la BSC. But, if you're like most people and you're not one or the other, then my advice to you is to keep an open mind and go after the job that best suits you, finance or not. </p>
<p>OK, you can put your party hats back on.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I'd like to politely laugh at those who think the IB bonus #'s that are reported are what you're actually going to get. In actuality it's only the best of the best, at the best banks, that makes that type of money. If you can be top 25% at a top 5 bank, sure, you'll make your 150k as a 3rd year analyst... but a word of caution to those who think IB = 150k because it certainly doesn't. Hell, most associates "only" make 250k.</p>
<p>Nobody said IB is going to go to hell, what I said was that it's going to be declining in the next few years. If you think I'm wrong then goodluck getting that gig because you don't know basic finance. Bonuses will go back to 00-01 numbers (think 130k total for 3rd years) and you're going to be doing tons of pitches w/o a lot of deals. </p>
<p>But hey, if you want to tell yourself that numbers in the next few years wont be down, that it's all going to be the same go ahead. I'll bump this later when I'm right...just like I was laughed at 7 months ago when I told everybody here that major IB's would be in trouble due to the credit crunch.</p>
<p>EDIT: Last time I checked you were a 2nd year in UG. Why don't you go interview at an IB, work at one, then come back and talk to me. Until then **** and let the people who know what's going on, who have worked in it, do the talking.</p>
<p>From these posts I get the impression that some of you think that the ibanking salaries are the sole reason to go into the field. What you must realize is that putting in your hellish stint as an analyst is a stepping stone into big league finance - from there you can exit into private equity, hedge funds, or get your MBA. Even if you decide to stick with banking, down the line you could be making millions.</p>
<p>
[quote]
From these posts I get the impression that some of you think that the ibanking salaries are the sole reason to go into the field. What you must realize is that putting in your hellish stint as an analyst is a stepping stone into big league finance - from there you can exit into private equity, hedge funds, or get your MBA. Even if you decide to stick with banking, down the line you could be making millions.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Listen alpha, why don't you stick to your transfer apps and let people who have worked in banking (me) talk about it. Yes you can go into hf/pe...but the same people who COULD go into top hf/pe are also the same people who COULD make md/vp. Most (read 90%) of BB IB analysts CANNOT go into top hf/pe shops. Let me repeat that, most people will never sniff the types of jobs that will "make you millions" down the road. You are dumb as s*** if you believe that, no offense.</p>
<p>I'm not trying to be a d*** but you come in here acting like you know what IB is, like you know how it goes, when in all honesty you do not. If you want to ask personal Q's or wanna know more then PM me, I'd be more then happy to help you snag interviews, get internships etc....what I'm not gonna do is stay quiet when you try to tell me how things go in finance...as a soph in college.</p>
<p>LaxAttack09, I think you have mistaken me for aworldapart. But that is forgivable.</p>
<p>From the age you give in your profile, it appears that you are likely a junior in college. If this is the case, then for all intents and purposes you have not worked in banking. Please do not pull random figures out of your ass and expect nobody to challenge them. The transition from analyst to PE/HF is a common one any determined and experienced analyst who is worth their salt can make it. I do not dispute the fact that most people will not go on to make millions, but if you want to have a chance at it, investment banking is one of the best places you could start (you will not deny that, I hope). Working as an analyst is your opportunity to get your foot in the door.</p>
<p>Every one of your posts in this forum has been angry and has had the purpose of attempting to scare away prospective investment bankers this makes me wonder if at some point you were given the shaft, or if somewhere along the line you realized you wouldnt have been able to make it. Because of this I highly doubt the value of your ability to help anyone snag interviews, get internships etc. Personally, I wouldn't take your help if it was given to me as a gift. Despite what you think you know about finance, you are just as good as (if not worse than) any wannabe on this forum, and you are in no position to pretend that you are in some way superior. Indeed, it would be best for you to stay quiet. Your silly tantrums make you look ridiculous.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I'm not trying to be a d***
[/quote]
Tip: Do not deny the obvious.</p>
<p>
[quote]
From the age you give in your profile, it appears that you are likely a junior in college. If this is the case, then for all intents and purposes you have not “worked” in banking.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I've "worked" in IB more than you have. Until you've gotten paid to work @ an IB, as a summer analyst, you have no right to talk like you know how things go. You think I never talked to associates I worked under? You think we don't keep in touch? </p>
<p>
[quote]
The transition from analyst to PE/HF is a common one – any determined and experienced analyst who is worth their salt can make it.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I agree but I think you assume that PE/HF = $$$. Most, the vast majority, of PE/HF associates do not make $$$ (that is to say, over 350k). </p>
<p>I agree IB is a great place to make $$, but it's certainly not as good as starting your own business (any person who is going to make tons of $$ in IB has the brains, skills, know-how to start a profitable business). </p>
<p>
[quote]
Every one of your posts in this forum has been angry and has had the purpose of attempting to scare away prospective investment bankers
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Telling the truth =/= scaring them away. You haven't even started college yet, you're a HS SENIOR! You don't have a clue in the world how this works, and granted I'm no master on it either, but I've worked in it and regularly talk to people who do. Everything I've said is the truth, I challenge you to link me to things I said that were untrue. Just quote me :). </p>
<p>Worry about college graduation, prom, whatever you do. I certainly have more authority than most on this board as I've spent a summer at an IB practice and have been offered to return for following summers and a full time position upon graduation. </p>
<p>I wonder who people reading this thread are going to trust more. Somebody who has yet to graduate HS or somebody who is 1 year away from graduating college and already has summer employment + a full time offer under his belt?</p>
<p>laxattack, consider yourself challenged.</p>
<p>Listen. I understand you're angry and sad and distraught because you got some weak excuse of an offer at a no-name boutique twenty miles outside of LA (because God knows the true BB don't recruit at a sub-Top 20 school -- and, yes, that's a shot at UCLA). You're PMS-ing because you're worried about your little chop shop folding in the midst of this financial flurry. But most of all, you're a little ticked off that you won't amount to anything on Wall Street, so you're "scaring away" potential financiers (and, yes, "scaring away" is the appropriate phrase). Fine, but don't take it out on us. </p>
<p>
[quote]
Most, the vast majority, of PE/HF associates do not make $$$ (that is to say, over 350k).
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Can we move to ban you on the grounds of you being a dumbass?</p>
<p>Pre-MBA first year associates at top PE shops will easily clear 350K, given base, bonuses, phantom equity, and stock options. At HF or prop shops, it's even EASIER to make >350k assuming you're a good trader. Salary at Jane Street, for example, is very performance-based. Granted, if you end up at MM PE/HF, you're still going to be making an all-in comp in the 99th percentile of all other 24-25 year olds in the world. </p>
<p>Bottom line is that you're a bloody idiot if you think that "PE/HF associates do not make $$$." You make more on the buy-side than most other jobs that recent grads have. FACT.</p>
<p><a href="any%20person%20who%20is%20going%20to%20make%20tons%20of%20$$%20in%20IB%20has%20the%20brains,%20skills,%20know-how%20to%20start%20a%20profitable%20business">quote</a>
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Just re-reading your posts **** me off.</p>
<p>For every Microsoft, for every Facebook, for every LiveScribe, there are 10,000 failed start-ups. Don't believe me? Drive up to the Valley or Palo Alto and see how many growth-stage tech companies are lying in the garbage can. If you think any average Ivy grad who can make it in IB has the "brains, skills, know-how to start a profitable business" you are a ******* idiot (I don't swear very often, but in this case, it's almost necessary). The skill set required to succeed in IB is completely different from the skills you need to have to do well in starting a company. Do first-year IB analysts know anything about market dynamics in the tech industry? Do they know anything about finding the right incubation parters for a pharma venture? Will plugging away at excel models help you plot out correct exit strategies? I swear, you are the biggest tool I've ever seen.</p>
<p>Oh, and before you bring up the whole experience thing, yeah I'm younger than you -- I'll be the first to admit it. But I worked at a top group in a large BB last summer in London. This summer I'm working at mid-cap PE firm in New York. Don't believe me? Give me your email and I'll fax you my parts of my contract. </p>
<p>You, sir, are living proof that older doesn't necessarily mean wiser. So, please stay out of this thread. Peace.</p>
<p>LaxAttack09,</p>
<p>
[quote]
I agree but I think you assume that PE/HF = $$$. Most, the vast majority, of PE/HF associates do not make $$$
[/quote]
You keep using words such as "most people" and "the majority." If you graduate from a top school and get a job at a BB bank, you will get a good ideal. Across the board, PE/HF pay is significantly better than the pay at the IB analyst level. Some of the big PE firms guarantee 400-500k for incoming associates - not bad for someone in their twenties. And of course, the pay is astronomically greater at the MD/partner levels.</p>
<p>Sure, it's easy to take a shot at me for being in HS. Guess what, I talk to people in the industry too. Whatever experience you may have does not excuse your overbearing cynicism. Yeah, the economic downturn does not bode well for IB jobs, but the outlook you prescribe to the future of IB is excessively bleak.</p>
<p>And (I hope you know this), it is much, much riskier to try to start a business than to work in IB. Someone needs a clue.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Some of the big PE firms guarantee 400-500k for incoming associates - not bad for someone in their twenties. And of course, the pay is astronomically greater at the MD/partner levels.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>And some NBA players make tens of millions in their twenties! But hey, you're a HS senior who has never worked in the industry....I'm sure you know what you're talking about! I'm not gonna argue with somebody who hasn't stepped foot on a college campus yet, let alone inside an IBD. Go on believing what you will, the people who read this thread know which one of us is more knowledgable about the business based on experience.</p>
<p>
[quote]
And (I hope you know this), it is much, much riskier to try to start a business than to work in IB. Someone needs a clue.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>You're reading comp skills blow if you think that's what I said.</p>
<p>Everyone should chill, get a beer or something. by the way is it very difficult to get I-banking positions as a science major say biology. It seems everyone is going into I-banking and I feel like joining the hype</p>
<p>LaxAttack, now you are just trying to argue against the facts. Yes, that sort of compensation does exist among PE firms, feel free to research. If you are blind to such basic knowledge, then everything you say regarding the matter should be taken with a grain of salt, regardless of whether or not you managed to get an offer from a no-name boutique bank located in the middle of nowhere (I wonder why you keep emphasizing that).</p>
<p>
[quote]
You're reading comp skills blow if you think that's what I said.
[/quote]
You seem to be the only one who doesn't know what you said. For most people out of college, starting up a business would not a better option than working in IB (if given both opportunities), for all the reasons that I and aworldapart have stated. Also, instead of "you're," you mean to say "your," as in "your grammar sucks."</p>
<p>Anybody who is following this argument can see that you are running out of steam.</p>