The Future Winner Among State Us is…U North Carolina?

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Just wanna challenge your statement that:</p>

<p>“Of these, I think that U North Carolina may be the best positioned financially to improve its position among top American universities.”</p>

<p>UNC’s bonding rating is Aa1, downgraded since 2002. Only 3 public universities retain the highest bond ratings - Michigan, Virginia and Texas). And UNC continues to have the lowest endowment among the top 5 ($2.36B, compared to Michigan’s $7.57B and UVa’s $4.57B). Thus it has to rely more on state appropriations (UNC: $574M vs. Michigan: $327M). The university is expecting a permanent state funding cut for 2009-10. So what makes UNC better positioned financially to grow IN THE FUTURE?</p>

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What happens when you want to build a new Science building or a new dormitory?</p>

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<p>IBclass,
This is interesting. What graduate program are you interested in? I presume you are talking about funding/scholarship for master students as PhD students are usually funded. It’d be good to know if UNC has better funding.</p>

<p>Which department(s) has significant “influx of recruited professors”?</p>

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Agreed.</p>

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Cal and UCLA admit only 9%-10% OOS… but I suppose you knew that already.</p>

<p>goblue,
U North Carolina will have no problem raising any money they might need for a new Science building or dorm or whatever. It’s not like U North Carolina will be blocked from raising capital with a bond rating of aa1 as compared to an institution with a rating of AAA. They might pay a little more in their cost of funding, but it’s probably on the order of 10 basis points per year. If they are raising $100 million, that means they would pay about $100k more in financing cost than the AAA institution. U North Carolina can easily cover this with the tuition of only 4 OOS students.</p>

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Classical Archaeology. Not all PhD students in my field are funded, particularly at public universities. In fact, a professor at Berkeley admitted that “if we accept you as our top (or no. 2) student that will usually (though not always) result in a five year package offer (a mix of fellowships and teaching). If you are further down the list, it gets a lot more dicey - we are not flush in money.” The program at UNC has been fully funding all of its PhD students lately – with excavation funding to boot! :)</p>

<p>About the influx…the department had three (!!) new hires last year, one in 2007, and yet another in 2006. It should be emphasized that this is additional faculty rather than replacement faculty.</p>

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<p>The % is not as important as the quality of the applicant pool. My point is that the same OOS kid could get into Cal, UVa and UCLA but be rejected by UNC. Similarly, s/he could be rejected by all of the above, but be admitted to Mich.</p>

<p>The economy in NC is not as strong as represented. It has been decimated in manufacturing. Its high tech business is tied to the computer industry. Even pharmaceutical research companies are not doing all that well. Unemployment exceeds 10 percent. The state has a HUGE deficit and is cutting jobs across the entire UNC system. Teachers in public schools have been asked to take paycuts and judges are also being asked to take pay cuts.</p>

<p>Their endowments have also been hit hard and the State employees pension fund was hit very hard.</p>

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<p>This is not entirely true. Aside from state positions, the economy in NC is booming. The Raleigh-Durham metro area is the fastest growing metro area in the country, and was rated by Forbes earlier this year as the number one area in the country to conduct business. The state is supposed to gain an extra several million people within the next decade or so, and many parts are experiencing great job growth. Unemployment dropped in every single county statewide at the last report. The only people really facing trouble in NC are state employees; besides that, the state remains economically healthy.</p>

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The lower bond rating implies that the rating organizations have less confidence on UNC than the other 3 publics with AAA.</p>

<p>I still don’t see your reasoning why UNC is “in the the best positioned financially to improve its position among top American universities”. Are they gonna get more appropriations from the state; raise more endowments; or what?</p>

<p>IBclass,
Thanks for the info.</p>

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I wonder if this is true, though. Cal probably draws a lot of very strong engineering/science/math applicants.</p>

<p>^^well sure, the chances do change for individual programs, for example the film program at UCLA!</p>

<p><a href=“http://universityrelations.unc.edu/budget/documents/2009/Budget%20Reduction%20-%20January%20142009%20Final.pdf[/url]”>http://universityrelations.unc.edu/budget/documents/2009/Budget%20Reduction%20-%20January%20142009%20Final.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>[Historic</a> Cut: Will Safety Issues, UNC Budget StressMean Wilson Library Closure? - 3/9/2009 - Library Journal](<a href=“Library Journal”>Library Journal)</p>

<p>[Bowles</a> rallies supporters to lobby for UNC - Local & State - News & Observer](<a href=“http://www.newsobserver.com/news/story/1549124.html]Bowles”>http://www.newsobserver.com/news/story/1549124.html)</p>

<p>UNC system President Erskine Bowles is calling in reinforcements in the battle over the budget.</p>

<p>Bowles sent e-mail messages to the UNC Board of Governors and the UNC system’s chancellors, asking them to activate their supporters to contact legislators over the weekend and early this week. And he offered talking points with the clear message that an 11 percent budget cut, now under discussion in the House, “would have severe and lasting negative impacts on student access and the quality of education our universities can offer.”</p>

<p>He included contact information for the House budget committee members and urged a quick campaign by university supporters to stave off 8 percent tuition increases and $337million in cuts. </p>

<p>“If cuts of that magnitude are implemented,” he wrote, “students on every UNC campus will see 1) larger classes; 2) less student advising and counseling; 3) higher faculty/student ratios; 4) lower retention and graduation rates; 5) delayed classroom upgrades and laboratory renovations; 6) fewer security personnel; 7) reductions in library services; and 8) reductions in maintenance.”</p>

<p>[House</a> looks to slash education, human services budgets :: WRAL.com](<a href=“House looks to slash education, human services budgets”>House looks to slash education, human services budgets)</p>

<p>$4.5 billion budget deficit.</p>

<p>Isn’t the budget deficit of Michigan smaller than North Carolina’s?</p>

<p>Isn’t the GDP of Michigan larger than North Carolina’s both nominally and per capita?</p>

<p>I’m not saying Michigan is in great shape because it isn’t.
North Carolina is in great shape?</p>

<p>But UNC does not have the academic excellent and tradition that UC Berkeley and Michigan have.</p>

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<p>Um, yes, it does. In many ways UNC has more of an academic tradition than UC Berkeley and U Michigan, given that it was the nation’s very first public university to open its doors to students. It also produces more Rhodes Scholars than any other public university with the exception of UVa. </p>

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<p>As far as the state economy goes, North Carolina is in excellent shape. Particularly when compared to Michigan. As I said before, North Carolina’s population is absolutely booming, and unemployment is dropping statewide. Even smaller areas (such as Fayetteville) are experiencing tremendous economic growth, and larger areas (like Raleigh) have consistently been a bright spot in an otherwise troubled national economy. </p>

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<p>You forgot basketball. Oh, and producing Rhodes Scholars. ;)</p>

<p>Goblue,
The difference in the municipal bond market between a aa1-rated issuer and a aaa-rated issuer is tiny. It’s not like the former can’t get financing. Do you really think that this is a meaningful difference between U North Carolina and a aaa-rated school like U Michigan? Given the minor differences in yield, the market doesn’t.</p>

<p>From a prospective OOS student perspective, U North Carolina and U Michigan offer a similar college experience (except that U North Carolina does not offer undergraduate engineering). U Michigan’s cost, however, is more than $13k (68%) more per year. Furthermore, if you’re a lower income student and trying to choose between a college that meets 100% of the demonstrated need (U North Carolina, but it only has a aa1 bond rating) vs another that only meets about 60% of the need (U Michigan, but it has a aaa rating), which one has more appeal? </p>

<p>One could even make arguments about the institutional values of these two colleges as the aaa-rated college looks like it is balancing its books on the backs of OOS and poor students.</p>

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<p>Whew, what a relief to hear that it doesn’t matter! Next time we come up for review, I’ll tell people here not to make such a fuss.</p>

<p>To follow up on Cuse’s population comments above, here is how these four states have fared from 2000-2008. </p>

<p>Change in State Population from 2000 to 2008
(Source: [Population</a> Estimates](<a href=“http://www.census.gov/popest/states/NST-pop-chg.html]Population”>http://www.census.gov/popest/states/NST-pop-chg.html) )</p>

<p>+14.6% North Carolina</p>

<p>+9.7% Virginia
+8.5% California</p>

<p>+8.0% USA overall</p>

<p>+0.7% Michigan</p>

<p>This has implications for each state, depending on the nature of those arriving…or leaving. I think a state would prefer an increase of population, preferably of folks who have a college education and are best able to add to the economic growth and tax base of the state’s economy. </p>

<p>I don’t have any figures at hand, but my suspicion is that North Carolina is doing pretty well compared to these other states.</p>

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You are in ABSOLUTE DENIAL my friend. General Motors just filed for bankruptcy today. Watch Michigan’s unemployment rate shoot up to 15%. Comparisons between the state of Michigan and third-world countries will soon start to be made. There is literally a stretch of 5 miles in the northeastern part of Detroit where there is NOTHING but boarded up houses and stores.</p>

<p>North Carolina might be one of the fastest growing states economically in the country besides Arizona.</p>

<p>RIP University of Michigan…they were the victim of state mismanagement of finances and a outdated car industry</p>

<p>^eh, that statement isn’t well supported at all. UMich and Ann Arbor aren’t nearly as tied to the economy of Michigan and Detroit as is made out to be. Which, is why investors have more confidence in UM, as well as UVA and UT, than Cal or UNC. </p>

<p>Things such as 2000-2008 growth rates can only be taken with a grain of salt relative to universities because this recession has thoroughly shook things up. Universities (public and private) were pressured to spend down their endowments and commit to large long term building projects right before there endowments took a hit. If UNC is facing such a large budget crisis right now, that is a huge, long term problem. </p>

<p>I agree that UNC is a bargain and offers a great college and athletic experience. </p>

<p>However, it is not the best or the strongest public university; it is overshadowed by Cal, Mich, and to a lesser extent UVA and UNC, by a good amount. I can’t even name UNC’s top-ranked departments. If someone could show where UNC academically supersedes Cal and Mich?</p>