The Honest Truth...

<p>Is Princeton (with all it's fancy eating clubs, etc.) really as economically elitist and snobby as most people say it is??</p>

<p>Many students like myself come from low-income families. Don't know what I could actually say to counter that false and greatly outdated stereotype.</p>

<p>Really? Whew, that's a relief. So they have good, no-loan financial aid available? I'm pretty much middle-class myself, nowhere near capable of paying 40 Gs a year...</p>

<p>Princeton's financial aid is more than just "good": it was groundbreaking when they introduced the current system in 2001. It's completely no-loans and they consistently meet 100% of need. Do not worry about money when it comes to Princeton, pretty much. It's one of the biggest reasons I considered applying to Princeton. Schools are just now following what Princeton started (Harvard, Yale, extremely few others).</p>

<p>Here's more information:
Princeton</a> University | Financial Aid Without Loans</p>

<p>You can find a financial aid calculator on the website.</p>

<p>(For the record, I am considered "lower income" by Princeton.)</p>

<p>They have excellent financial aid. In fact, I got more money from Princeton than from any of my other schools. If you look up the Princeton Review rankings, incidentally, you'll find that Princeton is in the top 10 for "Most Satisfied With Financial Aid." (Their system is also very prompt and not at all bureaucratic).</p>

<p>Many of the Ivy League schools are stereotyped as being the realm of the white and privileged but this is a very old stereotype. Sure, you'll find lots of rich kids (as you would at pretty much any college campus) but they make real efforts at getting racial and socioeconomic diversity. And with such a large applicant pool to choose more, they mostly succeed.</p>

<p>So would you all say that Princeton FA is better than at Harvard, Yale, or the other Ivies? I don't want to apply to all of them (ridiculous app fees lol)</p>

<p>I think Harvard's may or may not be better but in my experience, Yale is less generous and their system is bureaucratic and annoying. I know that Princeton's FA is not just generous but unique in other ways as well (for one thing, they didn't require me to take a job, as Yale did).</p>

<p>This issue has been addressed a number of times. The short answer is that the elitist stereotype is outdated, and the eating clubs, half of which allow anyone to join, are much less exclusive than their counterparts at Harvard and Yale. Below are some of the most insightful past posts on the subject:</p>

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<p>For balance, here's a more critical take on the clubs:</p>

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<p>For many years, Princeton was deserving of its elitist stereotype, but times have changed. Princeton is now an incredibly diverse place, in terms of its racial, socioeconomic, and ideological makeup. I won't pretend that you won't run into some extremely wealthy people here, but you will also meet students from extremely disadvantaged backgrounds. More often than not, it will be something in between. </p>

<p>High schoolers often see something mystical about the Ivy League, believing it to be almost otherworldly. Tagging Princeton with the snobby label is one way of making these views seem justified. The truth is that Princeton is not all that different from any other college. Sure, we have a bigger endowment and our students have higher test scores. But once you're here, you go to class during the week, unwind on the weekends, and take exams at the end of each term...just like you would anywhere else. Fundamentally, Princeton is made up of students trying to get an education, many of whom share the same passions, goals, hopes, and fears as yourself.</p>

<p>Come to think of it, I probably think of Yale as the preppiest Ivy right off the bat. Harvard and Princeton seem to be kicking the stereotype, though.</p>

<p>Ok first off, Princeton is not elitist/preppy...it's a great school with really really awesome chill people...the Ivy League stereotypes are in general outdated.</p>

<p>hookem168, this also applies to Yale...it's actually one of the least preppy Ivies (honestly, even less preppy than Princeton)</p>

<p>Also, Yale/Princeton/Harvard's FA systems are very very similar...and sometimes almost as unpredictable as their admissions :-) I have friends who chose H over Y because H gave better FA, and vice versa.</p>

<p>Princeton's actually fairly preppy, in my experience, though not in a snobbish or off-putting way. Yale, on the other hand, I didn't think was preppy at all.</p>

<p>so can any princeton students tell me if eating clubs are currently covered in FA?</p>

<p>For your junior and senior years (the years you are in a club), your financial aid award is increased by $2,000 to cover the average cost of board at an eating club. This does not cover social fees or sophomore dues.</p>

<p>So I am reading this book called "Student's Guide to Colleges: The Definitive guide to America's Top 100 schools written by the real experts - the students who attend them." For each school, three students give their input on the school. The book was published in 2006. It has given me doubts about whether or not I would really be happy at my choice of ivies: HYP. </p>

<p>The students portray these ivies (generally speaking) as schools where all anyone does is academics, and (in the case of princeton) where special societies and eating clubs rule the rest of the time. Is this true?</p>

<p>Also, I have never tasted alcohol and never will (religious reasons, so please don't tell me I will in college whether I think so right now or not!!!) Can I enjoy eating clubs and social events without having to be pressured to drink or feel like a social outcast?</p>

<p>Please ease my fears (or validate them if they are true). Thanks so much.</p>

<p>The best way to think about this issue is to divide time into four categories: time spent sleeping, studying, socializing, and pursuing EC's. Every student chooses to allocate time to each category differently, but nearly all students will spend a significant amount of time studying. It's Princeton, so I can't see why you would expect any differently. Students decide as early as freshman week which extracurricular activities they want to get involved in. Both of these time commitments, to academics and EC's, are made before it comes time to join a club. So in general, club life does not compete with academics and EC's for time. Students at every school like to set time aside to socialize. At Princeton, the dominant method of socializing happens to be the eating clubs. But that doesn't really have any bearing on how much time is allocated to the socializing category.</p>

<p>If you haven't read the eating club descriptions I posted above, I recommend that you do so. Students will not pressure you to drink, especially since you choose to abstain for religious reasons. And remember, most of the time you spend in a club will be spent eating, not partying (freshman year notwithstanding).</p>

<p>@ ivyleaguewannabe:</p>

<p>I don't mean to be antagonistic, but I just don't understand why you abstain from drinking for religious reasons. Is there something inherently immoral about alcohol? I just don't get it. </p>

<p>Also, it may be harder than you imagine. People may not fully respect your decision, especially if they themselves aren't overly religious or don't consider drinking to be against religion. In fact, I'd say almost every person I met in college was one of the two categories just stated. I'd say most people would understand if not drinking was due to a health problem or previous alcoholism, but a lot of people will probably try to pressure you into drinking. Furthermore, drinking is such a huge part of college life.</p>

<p>I'm with you ivyleaguewannabe...</p>

<p>I don't abstain from alcohol for religious reasons, but I still refuse to drink. I'm not saying its morally wrong, but it can lead to all kinds of problems. Pressure to drink is one thing that I don't look foward to in college.</p>

<p>Also, to dontno, there are several religions that prohibit alcohol consumption.</p>

<p>@ ivyleagewannabe: I had a similar concern as you when I was deciding between UChicago and Princeton (I am also strongly against drinking personally). I was worried since Princeton had a little more of a reputation for "partying" and that wasn't at all what I was looking for. When I visited Princeton Preview, I talked to one of the current students I spent time with there about it, and she let me know that she actually had the same concern before going to Princeton. She chose to stay in Substance-Free Housing (as did the others I spent time with) and let me know that many of the students there don't drink and typically aren't quite as likely to go to parties for their social fix or "be loud." The fact that I met students who had the same interests as I did and that they provide substance-free housing to find friends who also don't enjoy that lifestyle or at least respect those who don't was a huge plus for Princeton. It's clear that most students do party and probably a strong majority drink, but from my short 2-day experience there, it sounded like there more than enough options and similar-minded people for you to find your niche there.</p>

<p>Though I have no personal experience with eating clubs or social events, I tend to think Weasel has the right idea that for the most part you really aren't going to feel any pressure. That's what I have heard overall from other students. Perhaps you'll feel some, though this may depend on who you choose to associate with and how much social pressure you tend to feel.</p>

<p>If there's one thing that I realized when I visited the schools, it's not so much what the average student does: it's if you can find your niche. Princeton definitely has many, many avenues for widely varied students, and this is no exception--it seems to me, anyway.</p>

<p>@dontno: Muslims aren't allowed to drink.</p>

<p>@ Weasel:</p>

<p>Yes I was aware of that, but I just don't understand why any religion would consider alcohol to be inherently immoral? It's a fricking beverage! I understand abstaining from drinking for practical reasons. I count myself amongst this group as I do not drink whatsoever. But as far as religion, I find the rule rather absurd. For example, there are also plenty of other things that religions (or at least their holy books) outlaw that no one in their right mind would take heed of. For a humorous take on this issue, this guy spent a year following every biblical law possible (besides stoning infidels and rowdy children to death): Amazon.com:</a> The Year of Living Biblically: One Man's Humble Quest to Follow the Bible as Literally as Possible: A. J. Jacobs: Books</p>