The problem is that audience members aka donors, often get up in a huff and leave. I don’t see that much hope for larger organizations like symphony orchestras, venturing very far from works that are easy to listen to and understand. I just hope for funding sources for those ensembles (mostly not orchestras) committed to presenting new music in all its diversity, creativity and sometime courage.
I always find it interesting that avant-garde art does very well, in museums and galleries, versus new music. When you think about it, the issue with music is that it is temporal. A museum goer just has to spend a moment in front of a painting, and can then move on comfortably- or linger. A music patron is usually (not always) sitting and the piece takes 10,15, 30 minutes (sometimes even hours!) so there is less tolerance for music that is difficult to understand, than for art, because of that time element. If only people could look at that period of time the way they look at a canvas, but a canvas in time rather than space.
The “women composers” issue is complex. I know one young woman who went to a festival and was asked whose wife she was. There is a need for female composers to be played. But my feeling is that any performance that happens because of gender, further marginalizes women in the field, at least if it is articulated as related to gender.
I think a much better idea is to label concerts as “all male.” That will raise consciousness more and not marginalize anyone. How about a concert of Mozart, Mahler and Brahms, labeled as an “all male composer concert.” Or, for that matter, Glass, Reich and Lang. (Also, there are #metoo issues in music, but that’s another story)
For now, composers spend many months writing a piece of music, with eventual audiences maybe reaching into the double digits if they are lucky. So yes, hope everyone tries out some new music once in awhile. Preconcert talks help a lot in getting people to understand what is going on and even enjoy it.
@compmom, this post, and others you’ve posted recently in other threads, have had me thinking about “new music” and what it means to be “well versed” in new music. Is there a canon or catalogue of “new music”?
Coming from a jazz orientation, I feel like most of jazz is new music. Many jazz musicians, including my son, do a lot of their own composition. Probably about half of what my son performs and records is original composition, either his own or that of others in the groups with whom he plays.
I also listen to a lot of original composition on the classical side, as I have some extended family who are gaining some recognition for their classical compositions. And sometimes I feel like the line between classical and jazz can blur. Going to hear one of my favorite jazz composers, Maria Schneider, conduct her orchestra can feel a bit like going to a modern classical concert. Same for listening to Keith Jarrett improvise an entire concert at Carnegie Hall. And I mentioned a while ago a wonderful Brazilian composer and conductor whose chamber group my son has played with - he’s won awards for both “jazz” composition and “classical” composition. (His name is Rafael Piccolotto de Lima, and I highly recommend checking him out if you have the opportunity.)
Although I listen to, and appreciate, a lot of new music, I don’t think of myself as “well versed” in new music, because what I listen to is ad hoc and serendipitous. So I ask this as a serious question. What does it mean to be well versed in new music, how does one get there and why is it important? Okay, I guess that’s three questions. But I’m interested in your thoughts on all of them.
I think the field is so vast it is hard to be “well-versed” and I also enjoy finding things “ad hoc.” There are certainly aesthetic schools to learn about, much as we learn about Impressionists and Surrealists. But some of the most interesting and original work doesn’t fall neatly in place. There is also a lot of electronic or computer music work that is intriguing, installations, multi-media and interdisciplinary work.
I found Alex Ross’ book “The Rest is Noise” to be helpful in getting some background, at least.
Genres are definitely blurring. Good examples for composers straddling jazz and classical might be Vijay Iyer and George Lewis.
There is so much music online these days. One thing leads to another. Sometimes I listen to grad student work too. But, I try to go to live music as you do!
I’ll listen to the composers you mentioned. Maybe it would be good to make a sort of list of composers to try to listen to for folks here.
Eastman is live-streaming its summer program student performances starting today. Worthwhile taking a look especially for those considering applying next year or interested in knowing the level of playing. Here’s the schedule for this week:
Thursday July 12 at 3pm – Summer Jazz Studies Small Ensembles
Friday July 13 at 3pm – Summer Jazz Studies Large Ensembles
Friday July 13 at 7.30pm – Cello Institute Ensemble Concert
Compojazzmom, sorry for the following tangent…your post is very helpful and may save people a trip to Rochester. It just suggested,for me, the issue of livestreaming versus in-person attendance in the context of the original post.
In my view live-streaming detracts from potential audiences at the actual venue for performances. I know a composer who worked months on a piece, only to have it performed with 10 people in attendance while others watched the livestream at home.
This is a mixed bag. It is possible MORE people actually hear a performance, even if the hall is empty, but the overall effect is still depressing. (And of course nowadays people can videotape or record their own performances and post on Soundcloud or YouTube or personal website, further increasing the number of listeners).
Is the desire for full seats at a venue getting to be old-fashioned? Is there a way to know how many are livestreaming? How do performers feel about fewer filled seats but more people at home: does it affect their experience or inspiration while playing?
Again, this is not related to your kind offer of info on the concerts at Eastmans’s summer program. It just got me thinking about technology and how it helps and hinders.
I’m not sure it’s an either/or–I doubt anyone local would choose to listen to the livestream over attend in person. But it’s an incredible option for those who can’t be there (like when mine did Berklee 5-Week and the rest of us were across the country during his performances).
My kid’s school doesn’t livestream at this point (which is a drag for non-local parents!). When people ask, admin cites varying logical and thoughtful reasons and potential legal concerns, though I know plenty of other schools have gotten around them.
I was at an acoustic show at a local winery last night–3 singers, one of them on guitar–and it was standing room only. The room was alive, and the musicians were definitely feeding off of our enthusiasm just as we were feeding off of theirs! But I’ve also watched their gigs plenty of times via livestream and video because they live and perform on the other coast. In fact, that’s how I became a fan!
@Compojazzmom, thanks for the post and the link. I caught a few minutes of today’s performances and it brought back nice memories of listening to my son play in Kilbourn Hall when he was in the Eastman summer jazz program (many years ago). I remember being impressed back then by the level of playing for a group of high school students and I was impressed by what I heard today. One thing the livestream didn’t capture though is how beautiful the hall is.
In terms of the concern @compmom raised about the possible impact of live-streaming on audience attendance, I raised the same concern early on in this thread. I think it’s less of a concern for school concerts, where admission is free and the people who are most likely to attend - family, friends, classmates, local jazz fans - are going to want to see it in person. But I know many commercial venues do see live-streaming as a concern. Hard to know whether the concern is justified - I’m not sure how you would test it - but it’s a different calculus for venues that charge a cover and/or a minimum. They generally don’t want a free livestream of the concert to be made available.
My son does occasionally livestream his shows when he’s on tour, but he’s had very good in-person audiences for those shows which may make the venue more comfortable in allowing it. And he doesn’t advertise the livestream in advance, which presumably reduces the risk that it will have an adverse impact on attendance. He also will only livestream one set, not the whole show. And even with all that, only a few venues let him do it.
As @YertleTurtle’s post demonstrates, live-streaming and online videos can be a great way for a musician or a group to start to build a broader following. But there’s no question that the musicians really feed off a large, enthusiastic in-person audience, so filling the seats at the venue is very important. It’s also important financially, as the musicians often get a share of the door, and even if they’re being paid a set fee without a share of the door, they’re less likely to be booked again if they don’t draw an audience. All of which is to say (again) - definitely enjoy the livestreams when they’re available for performances that you can’t attend in person, but attend in person when you can.
As far as the commercial aspect is concerned, the pros and cons of live-streaming could be controversial. Yet narrowing down the scope to free student concerts, I would consider watching live-streamed performances to be showing support for live music as it is real time, the difference being essentially the audience’s form of presence.
There’s something special about going to a no-name, hole in the wall venue and encountering amazing, world-class music. My wife and I did that last night. Our son told us that if we came out, (1) we’d be more than twice as old as anyone else at the venue and (2) we’d have a blast. He was right on both counts. It was essentially a jam session packed with some of the best young jazz musicians in the city - people who have gigs at the top venues (Village Vanguard, Blue Note, Jazz Standard) who got together at this little venue to play for tips just because they really love the music and love playing together. The whole thing blew us away. Another reminder of how magical music can be.
Son’s trio is on the road again and I’m really grateful to the venue tonight for letting them livestream. Thoroughly enjoyed watching/listening from hundreds of miles away. (The venue is run by true jazz fans and they had a great turnout, so I think that probably helped the decision to let them livestream.) But also really looking forward to flying out and meeting up with one of the posters on this board at the next gig on their tour tomorrow night. As great as the livestream is, nothing beats being there!
My son is back on the road and did an interview a couple of days ago with a newspaper in one of the cities where he’ll be playing. I wanted to share the answer he gave to a question about pursuing a career as a jazz pianist, as I thought he expressed it well:
My son’s trio embarks this week on their first southeastern tour, with 16 shows in 15 cities over a span of 17 days. He mentioned the spreadsheet he put together for the tour - listing each date, location, where they’re staying, drive times from the prior city, venue details and requirements, financial arrangements and other info - and it sounded a bit like the spreadsheets some of you have put together for your kids’ audition tours. So when audition season is over, don’t throw away those templates. They may come in handy down the road!
My son’s trio had the 16th and last show of their tour tonight. Tomorrow his bandmates are dropping him in Philly, where he’s doing an evening show with a singer. After that, he’s catching a train back to NYC and reuniting with his bandmates in the Village, where they’ll be doing the late night show at one of the clubs there (or more precisely, the early Monday morning show, 1 am to 4 am). Oh to be young!
The tour was very successful - good and enthusiastic audiences and a number of venues that already want them back. My son also got to play on some very nice pianos, including an extended range Bosendorfer that he said was an amazing instrument. He’s truly grateful for all the venues that hosted them and all the people who came out to share the music and give them energy.
With seven of their shows in Florida and four in Georgia, they also had a nice respite from the cold weather. The temperatures were generally in the 70s and 80s in Florida and in the 60s in Georgia. (In addition, they had their Nashville debut, did shows in North and South Carolina, and did shows in Maryland to start the tour as well as to end it.) Two of the Florida shows were in Miami and I thought of all the people here auditioning at Miami-Frost. Miami is not a bad place to be in February!
My son just started a tour today in Japan. He posted an Instagram picture of himself with his Japanese bandmates and some others he met, with the following caption: “My new friends in Japan. Music always makes the world feel small and connected.”
He really couldn’t be happier doing what he’s doing. Just thought I’d share as a way of saying that there is a reward for all the hard work and stress your students and you are going through.
@jazzpianodad thanks for posting this very encouraging and inspirational message. Congratulations on your son’s Japan debut! It sure is an exciting time for him and may he enjoy this experience to its maximum potential.
There is a global community in many genres of music today, thanks to travel, Internet, social media and so on. Including classical “new music” composition and performance. I love jazzpianodad’s son’s quote.
@jazzpianodad I love hearing about the success of your son’s music, and the Japan tour. My D is still out in LA forging her way and occasionally I get to see something online or live on the East Coast.
I agree that live music is so much better, especially when you get to meet the musicians and understand their paths.
FYI … my D has been out of school a few years but I am hopeful she does a Masters program eventually. She is too independent to have H or I offer “help” so maybe someday I will just tell this forum what she decided and when.
