jazzpianodad, you present two examples at the end of a spectrum and most young composers are living in between
I also know a doctoral student composer who is working collaboratively and spending a lot of time with amazing musicians. The question is how to transition out of that protected school bubble and even how to get paid for any work.
The other example seems to be a composer who has paid commissions, gets residencies, is published and is established enough to get adequate rehearsal time. I would be interested to know how that person is supporting herself.
The composer in my family is doing well. I just want to paint a realistic picture here. For many there are years of paying for performances, rather than getting paid, and often the music is under-rehearsed. School situations tend toward collaboration between composer and players for mutual benefit.
For anyone interested, here are some resources for composers and in some cases musicians who want to play new music. This gives a feel for the lay of the land so to speak. @suzeviolin have your daughter consider joining the Ulysses community and peruse the other two lists.
ps suzeviolin many composers have websites where a musician can obtain scores. If there is a composer she likes, she can simply contact them. One way to determine whom she might like to play would be to attend a lot of concerts- the topic of this thread!
Most emerging composers have Soundcloud and/or You Tube or Vimeo, and of course websites. No need for a publishing house though of course the established composers have scores that are published and cost money. The majority of young composers don’t charge because they WANT performances.
My S18 recently performed a new vocal/dance work that was written by a grad student at his music school, to be performed at an honorary degree ceremony. It was very challenging for him to learn, rehearse it and perform it. He said it was a complicated piece, perhaps made more so because the composer suffered a concussion as he completed the work.
There are grad programs specifically geared to musicians who want to play new music. There is a reason for those programs! Emerging composer works can be quite difficult for those trained on the classical canon.
Thanks for those resources @compmom! It is an interesting world that she has had a chance to enter into, that not many students her age get to see. We were so amazed and grateful that he did this for her. The following year he asked if she wanted him to write another piece for her, but also suggested that she could ask a different composer, perhaps one of his grad students, as that might be better for her musical development. Unfortunately she was dealing with an overuse injury and was still in the intermediate stages of recovery, so she couldn’t, but she retains the motivation to play new works. I think it’s really valuable for performing artists, and is a palpable a reminder that the “classical” works they are studying are on a continuum and were once new. Composers and performers both need each other, so it is good when young artists get to see that in real time.
A great streaming site I’ve only recently discovered for listening to varied but accessible New Music is Extra Eclectic Radio from Minnesota Public Radio. https://www.yourclassical.org/listen/extra-eclectic/playlist Just in the last hour or so I’ve listened to Donnacha Dennehy, Nico Muhly, Brett Dean, Einojuhani Rautavaara. Valerie Coleman, Mary Kouyoumdjian, Sayo Kosugi, Arvo Part, Aaron Jay Kernis and more.
My D recently finished a new works performance at a theater. I don’t know how long the rehearsal process was…but I’m quite sure it was at least a month…recalling her discussing it. The run was short (3 performances only) but still they had to rehearse…it is a professional theater. My D would complain if she felt under-prepared. She greatly enjoyed the opportunity.
My D was paid decent for it so I would guess that the composers were as well. When I checked, it said that there were several composers (predominately female). I couldn’t attend but she said the music was beautiful and incredibly satisfying. She has another performance coming up in the fall which will be a new works as well. The composer asked her to send in some recordings of her voice so he could listen to it as he worked on his composition. I have no idea how this world works but my D has over the years brushed up against composers in a fair amount of original works available on stage…all MT or Opera - esque … with a touch of choral work at times too … with less fear of mixing genres and more fun collaboration. It’s been an opportunity for my D as these composers like the classical training which seems to help in handling the more difficult vocal gymnastics.
Admittedly these are the not always the most lucrative gigs. But if you can get a beer commercial (lol - that’s what my D’s doing today) in the same month, it’s all OK. As she says, dumb work fills the bank (a lot of standing around and then posing). But intellectual work fills the spirit.
@bridgenail, it’s interesting that the composer asked for recordings of her voice. At first I was curious about that, but in thinking about it, it makes so much sense. In my daughter’s case, the composer who wrote for her had already worked with her on a movement of a piece he had written a long time ago, and had heard her perform it, so he had some familiarity with her sound and who she is as a performer.
It’s wonderful to think about new things that are happening in music these days, with collaboration and mixing among different genres, where instrumentation is not necessarily an accompaniment for the singer, but more integrated into the whole. Recently I was at an amazing performance that used instruments and players and composers from different traditions, including, but not limited to, western classical music, and dance and improvisation, and also electronic music and artistic lighting. It was so moving.
@compmom, a very interesting thing that is happening right now is that my daughter is writing her first composition, a string quartet, for her theory class. It’s actually sounding quite lovely!
@SuzeViolin - I’m not sure exactly how it works, but her music is available for purchase on her website as well as through a selling agent who represents a large number of composers. She does list a publisher but I think it may be self-published.
@compmom - she gets paid for commissioned works and for the residencies, and gets royalties when her music is performed, and I assume she gets some share of the purchase price for her published music that is purchased. I have no idea how much she makes from her music and wouldn’t feel comfortable asking. She does the music full time and has a pretty busy schedule, but she is not the sole source of support for her family. As for the composer in the doctoral program, she still has a couple of years before she gets her degree. I recognize that the academic world can offer a protective bubble. You probably know better than me, but my sense is that composers often find a way to stay in the academic bubble, or at least partially in it, even after they get their degrees.
@jazzpianodad I once heard “Dwight” of The Office give an interview. He told a story of when he was in college in NYC at a bar with his acting friends (probably some wearing berets and smoking clove cigarettes) and someone asked if anyone thought they would “sell out” and do something like a milk commercial. Someone finally said…well yea maybe if it was for SOY milk. I may be remembering some of the details wrong…but that was the gist of the story. He said that one thing that really helped support his early career was a national beer commercial (alas my D’s was local so the money is a tad different).
I could see a little of my D in the students above that has quickly disappeared as she has had to support herself.
Composers make a living by getting their music performed - by licensed ensembles or presenters. So, please if you perform live music - make sure the venue and/or the ensemble pays their annual dues to ASCAP and BMI - living composers depend on that. There’s nothing worse than finding out the $2500 royalty payment for a performance one was expecting didn’t happen because the venue neglected to pay its dues (which are never onerous.)
And, performers, know that every time you perform a piece by a living composer you’re contributing to the creation of new music. Commission pieces by composers you know and respect - pay them what you can (hopefully the going rate, of course) - but, regardless, perform the pieces often and not just for the world premiere.
And yes, my son has found himself doing some gigs that are more for the money than the art, though he tries to make sure that they don’t crowd out his ability to do the music and the projects he really wants to do. He also tries to find some artistic satisfaction even in the gigs he’s doing more for the money by playing with musicians he really wants to play with and treating it as a session but with pay. For the “background music” function gigs, so long as they don’t play too loudly and don’t play anything too controversial, they can pretty much do whatever they want.
@SpiritManager - completely agree. I was also curious if you happen to know whether there are any particular advantages or disadvantages as between BMI and ASCAP. The established composer in my extended family whom I mentioned uses BMI, while my son uses ASCAP. Not that my son gets a lot of royalty income at this stage, but he gets a little and really likes the ASCAP people.
@jazzpianodad my S belongs to BMI and it’s more transparent about how royalties are calculated and paid, I believe, than ASCAP. But plenty of classical composers belong to ASCAP, so I have no idea of the exact differences. I only have anecdotal stories and I don’t know if they’re accurate. For my S, royalties are an important part of his annual income. He takes a big hit if his music is performed at an unlicensed venue or by an unlicensed ensemble.
ASCAP may be better for jazz. And Spotify Prime pays better than the other streaming services - so, everyone, sign up for Prime!
Just got back from an amazing concert -Yannick Nezet Seguin conducting the “Phabulous Philadelphians” in Beethoven’s Eroica. Sat in the conductor’s circle for the first time, which puts you behind the timpani but a level above the stage and facing the conductor. It feels like you are a part of the orchestra. Really fun, especially watching Jonathan Biss’s facial expressions when playing Schumann’s piano concerto in the first half! Just wow! Hope to see some of your kids in the orchestra there someday!
