<p>I used USNEWs. And where exactly does it show Harvard beats Stanford in cross admits?</p>
<p>Sakky,</p>
<p>Your reply to my previous post is well taken and I certainly understand where you are coming from. On the other hand, however, although a certain amount of spots at top B-Schools are reserved for students with experience working at top I-Banks, MC firms or hedge funds, no B-School wants a cohort made up exclusively of I-Bankers and McKinsey alumnus. Indeed, most top B-Schools take a certain amount of students from the public sector, or those with backgrounds in non-profits or students who have business experience working for startups, small business, ect. This is usually where students from non-prestigious undergrads get their foot in the door when it comes to top B-Schools because, as you said, it is very unlikely that a student from UCF will end up at Bain immediately after he or she graduates from UG.
I would also argue that the top B-Schools probably get more applications from applicants who attended prestigious undergrads just because this is a more normal career path for students from Yale or Princeton than it is from Michigan State or UNC-Charlotte. As you pointed out, students from top ivies will often take positions at I-banks or MC firms upon graduation and the next step for them, after three of four years of work, is often to get an MBA.</p>
<p>I think the gist of the whole argument here is that a number of mitigating factors explain for the large number of ivy UGs at top grad schools around the country and that, with the right work experience, no one is at a clear disadvantage in applying to any of the elitie B-Schools based solely on where they earned their UG. However, as you pointed out so clearly, one of the main types of work experience looked for by top B-Schools is available more readily to those from prestigious UGs than students from largem state schools or otherwise run of the mill UG institutions.</p>
<p>
[quote]
And where exactly does it show Harvard beats Stanford in cross admits?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>It was shown in some other website, perhaps here on CC (I can't remember). Maybe you can search for it. </p>
<p>But at the end of the day, what is indisputable is that HBS has a higher yield than Stanford does, and has for many years now.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I used USNEWs.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Where exactly in USNews is it?</p>
<p>How about you search for this info since all you ever cite is ******** anecdotal evidence.</p>
<p>Divide entering class size by number of acceptances.</p>
<p>im a psych major and my i got to an unknown local tier III school with a bad arts&science program. not sure how that is going to affect me</p>
<p>
[quote]
Indeed, most top B-Schools take a certain amount of students from the public sector, or those with backgrounds in non-profits or students who have business experience working for startups, small business, ect.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Well, I think it should be said that plenty of students from elite undergrad programs also enter those sorts of jobs. The difference is that they tend to get the more desirable of those jobs. For example, Facebook was founded by a bunch of Harvard undergrads. {Ok, maybe that's a bad example because Facebook has been so successful that those guys will never need to go to B-school.}</p>
<p>Nevertheless, I don't disagree with the basic point that it is certainly possible for a person from a lower-ranked undergrad program to nevertheless enter a top B-school. But it does behoove that person to know what his competition is, and specifically, that is competition is probably going to have a great job that has built a killer resume. Hence, that person is going to have to be that much more enterprising in order to build a comparable resume. It can be done, but it does require gumption.</p>
<p>Sakky,</p>
<p>I still disagree with any assumption that B-School admission is that much moe difficult for students from mediocre UGs than those from prestigious ones. Sure, HYP graduates often get great jobs, but top B-Schools dont WANT a cohort of students entirely culled from Lehman, Goldman Sachs, and JP Morgan. Sure, they want some of these types but they also want poeple who spent five years working on their fathers farm after graduation or spent time in the Amazon building highways or fighting an insurgency or whatever. The point is that prestigious undergraduate schools are obviously overrepresented at top B-Schools for several mitigating factors but that this in itself does not mean that competent, hard working grads from lesser known UG institutions, provided they have strong work experience that B-Schools are interested by, have a tougher time being admitted.
I'm pretty sure a trilingual applicant who has worked for five years in microfinance in Bangladesh while simultaneously running a day camp in Dhaka who graduated summa cum laude from No-Name U and has a 750 GMAT will have an easier time being admitted to elite B-Schools than many, if not most, students from top undergrads.</p>
<p>lol english is nonsense- stop codon if u know wat i mean. watever i guess u guys wont help so im jus gonna throw a dice in the air n c wat it lands on 12 for cal 34 ucsd and 56 la. wonder wats gonna happin lol</p>
<p>That's like asking if you can get into B school if you tank your GMAT. I think undergrad is just one factor that the admissions people look at. I think it's definitely possible if you go to a less prestigious undergrad program and get accepted to a top B-school. Just like if you tank your GMAT you can still get into a top B school. if you're from less prestigious undergrad, you just have to work hard and really take advantage of all the opportunities available to you. Nonetheless, given comparable qualifications such as GPA, GMAT, life/work experience, essay, recommendations, etc. someone who graduated summa cum laude from an Ivy or Stanford is still going to look better than someone who graduated from a less prestigious undergrad school. I guess if they have room they'll take both applicants. Citing the stats regarding HBS from sakky, I think people from the ivy league schools just tend to be more qualified. I don't think they are overwhelmingly overrepresented in the top B schools BECAUSE they hold ivy degrees. </p>
<p>The same goes for stats like "All 9 of the Supreme Court Justices and 36% of US Senate members hold Ivy degrees" or "1 out of every 4 Forbes CEO is an Ivy alum". I don't think these people get elected or appointed because they hold ivy degrees, but rather people who graduated from ivy league universities just tend to have high qualifications.</p>
<p>It might also be that people that attend Ivy league schools have different career aspirations than people that attend state or lower-tier schools. I mean, I'd like to be either a professor at a major research university or in a major corporate research lab after I finish getting my PhD, so I realize that going to a highly ranked school with a well-known professor was important. If I didn't feel as driven by my career as I do, I probably would have gone to a school I would have probably had no debt from (as opposed to < $15k now) and been happy with my BS to work for a local company.</p>
<p>i think people everywhere aspire just as much. if not, then why ask if it's possible to get into a top b school from a less prestigious undergrad.</p>
<p>Because some people may not be able to afford the more prestigious school or may have had unfortunate circumstances which kept them from getting into a more prestigious school for undergrad.</p>
<p>that's why i say ppl everywhere can aspire just as much...</p>
<p>Hey Sakky,</p>
<p>I tried sending you a message, but a prompt appeared saying you've exceeded the limit on your mailbox so I'll post my question here.</p>
<p>I have a friend who graduated from UP and just read a post where you mentioned that you went there for undergrad. What was your major at UP and what kind of work experience did you have prior to b-school? I understand the school uses a 1-5 grading scale. What was your average? </p>
<p>Thanks.</p>
<p>
[quote]
just read a post where you mentioned that you went there for undergrad. What was your major at UP and what kind of work experience did you have prior to b-school? I understand the school uses a 1-5 grading scale. What was your average
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Ha! I think you should read that post again. I never said that I went to UP. I believe what I said in that post is that people (actually just 1 guy) shouldn't automatically assume that I didn't go to UP.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I still disagree with any assumption that B-School admission is that much moe difficult for students from mediocre UGs than those from prestigious ones. Sure, HYP graduates often get great jobs, but top B-Schools dont WANT a cohort of students entirely culled from Lehman, Goldman Sachs, and JP Morgan. Sure, they want some of these types but they also want poeple who spent five years working on their fathers farm after graduation or spent time in the Amazon building highways or fighting an insurgency or whatever. The point is that prestigious undergraduate schools are obviously overrepresented at top B-Schools for several mitigating factors but that this in itself does not mean that competent, hard working grads from lesser known UG institutions, provided they have strong work experience that B-Schools are interested by, have a tougher time being admitted.
I'm pretty sure a trilingual applicant who has worked for five years in microfinance in Bangladesh while simultaneously running a day camp in Dhaka who graduated summa cum laude from No-Name U and has a 750 GMAT will have an easier time being admitted to elite B-Schools than many, if not most, students from top undergrads.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Look, I agree with you that B-schools don't really want a monolithic class of consultants and Ibankers.</p>
<p>But what we're talking about is the salience of the undergrad program. Let me give you an example. There's a woman studying at Harvard Business School who spent years working in concert with the government of Colombia, attempting to foster economic growth and social development. She's fluent in 3 languages (English, Spanish and French). Where did she do her undergrad? Harvard. </p>
<p>That's the point I've been making: that undergrads at the top schools don't just have advantages in getting the best jobs at Ibanking and consulting, but also in a wide range of industries. In contrast, the vast majority of undergrads at low-ranked schools are going to end up with jobs that are, frankly, mediocre, that is to say, jobs that simply don't provide them with strong opportunities, regardless of which industry we're talking about. Now, granted, there are obviously going to be some that will break through and get top jobs through luck and pluck. But the road is clearly harder. </p>
<p>Again, consider that woman I discussed above. Would she have even gotten that job in Colombia if she had come from a no-name undergrad program? I think it's quite unlikely. If nothing else, the Harvard name at least probably opened the door to getting her the initial interview. If she had come from SouthEast Missouri State University, she probably wouldn't have even gotten the interview.</p>
<p>Claiming that those who don't hold BA's from the most elite schools in America, institutions which pump out a very limited amount of undergraduates each year, a total which represents a fraction of the American workforce, are destined for "mediocre" work is a sakky-esque assumption if I've ever seen one....</p>
<p>This is so pointless. If the reputation of one's undergrad school doesn't matter whatsoever, then why bother ask questions about getting into elite b-schools... Based on the same logic, why would that matter?? Wouldn't it be the same whether you get your MBA from Stanford or University of Nebraska as long as you work hard and have impressive stats. I mean you shouldn't care whether your MBA degree says Stanford or University of Florida right? You'll still climb to the very top of the social ladder. There's no reason why the name of one's undergrad degree doesn't matter and the name of one's MBA degree matters all the sudden. It's kind of ridiculous.</p>