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<p>[Introverts</a>, stand up for your rights! | business lessons from rock](<a href=“http://businesslessonsfromrock.com/notes/2013/02/introverts-rise-up]Introverts”>http://businesslessonsfromrock.com/notes/2013/02/introverts-rise-up)</p>
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<p>Well, I don’t overlook it :-). An introvert can be T (thinking) or F (feeling). An extrovert can be T (thinking) or F (feeling). Indeed, that’s what I referenced upthread when I said I didn’t like the book Quiet. It assumed that introversion was always accompanied by exquisite sensitivity to others’ feelings. Well, no. Sometimes introverts are IT’s and sometimes they are IF’s.</p>
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<p>Yes, yes, yes. This is the difference. Shy people WANT to have more social interaction but shyness inhibits them. Introverts are more than happy to leave everyone else alone at the end of the day, and don’t feel a need to socialize more than they want to. </p>
<p>Here’s a classic: Can you go to a strange city and go sightseeing by yourself, or would you feel lonely? I could go to a strange city for a week, sightsee, and not once feel “oh, I wish I had someone to share these experiences with.” I’m fine with my own company. An extrovert tends to feel lonely in this situation. That’s neither good nor bad, just different. My extrovert husband is lonely when I’m gone on a business trip. I’m not lonely when I’m gone on a business trip; that doesn’t mean I don’t love him, but I’m fine in my own head. That’s the difference.</p>
<p>What I have noticed is non-shy introverts are easily misunderstood. If the introvert is confident, but simply does not seek out or need as much social interaction, that quality can be viewed negatively. S/he can be seen as snobby, arrogant, superior-acting, stand-offish, or disinterested in the people around them. “Aloof” and “nonchalant” were adjectives S’s high school teachers used to describe him. S simply did not care to participate in social interactions if he didn’t need to or want to. He didn’t go along with the crowd, ie. act silly or rowdy or whatever, just because everyone else was doing so. He had to feel it and want it for himself. While he was always nice, polite, and respectful, he did not cozy up to teachers and other people as much as others did. I would say that negatively affected how well-liked he was.</p>
<p>Remember that introversion/extroversion runs along a continuum like intelligence does. It is not an on/off thing. Some will have mainly characteristics of one or the other while some will fall in the middle. One frustrating aspect of introversion (to an extrovert who thinks and talks at the same time) is the tendency to go through things internally before speaking. My son’s teacher said they had to wait for my son to answer a question but that the answer was worth waiting for. You could argue which way is best for a long time- the answer is neither, just different.</p>
<p>Read several books, there is no one “bible” on the subject. Also remember intelligence and personality type are not the same. Think of overlapping Venn diagrams- shared traits and abilities with differing ones. Also consider that different traits serve well in different ways and tasks. Neither is better/worse than the other- just different. Extroversion happens to dominate introversion so our society tends to consider those habits normal. Compare it to culture. In our country some European cultural traits dominate but that does not make minority cultures and their ways any less valid or wrong. We benefit as a society because of the diversity in cultures and underlying personality types. You get the idea. Read the fascinating details about what makes people tick- I even got a book that discusses how the different combinations of personality types relate in marriage (knowing what makes the other person tick helps prevent misunderstandings). </p>
<p>Sounds like a religion but it is the same as knowing that different people have different ways of learning. Eons ago we tried to fit everyone into the same mold, now we realize we can’t.</p>
<p>Also keep in mind the introversion/extroversion personality features are hardwired, just as physical features are. You do not try to make a short person tall or change the color of their skin. Likewise you do not try the impossible by trying to make one personality become the other. This is not shyness or confidence in front of an audience or other modifiable behavior. Telling an introvert to constantly be involved socially is like telling a short person to stand on tiptoe, wear high heels and stretch all of the time to be average- the longer they do it the more stressed they become.</p>
<p>In my experience, people come down much harder on introverts than extroverts.
How many times is someone who is introverted admonished to " talk more" or asked why " they are so quiet.".
Do we feel as comfortable telling extroverts to just " f-ng shut up"?</p>
<p>^ I agree. In our culture, being “out-going” is considered a virtue. Being quiet, not so much. We are also very into having a sense of humor, which both personality types will have, but the extrovert will be more likely to express it and be the life of the party.</p>
<p>Excellent observation upthread, theGFG (post 83).</p>
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<p>Yes. Happens all the time. Maybe introverts just don’t notice it.</p>
<p>Look, I’ve been involved with various groups and committees, many through church, that start with developing a “covenant” before doing anything else. MOST of the time, the covenant will include an admonishment for “extroverts” to shut up so that “introverts” can feel comfortable talking. This used to annoy me, so I started pointing out that it was as important for everyone to contribute as it was for a few people to restrain themselves from dominating the conversation. Everyone has a responsibility.</p>
<p>The fact of the matter, if we were honest, is that in such a group if the extroverts sat there entirely mute the extreme introverts STILL would not say a single word until they were good and ready.</p>
<p>I know plenty of introverted, quiet types who have a great wry sense of humor and express it freely.</p>
<p>Yes. Happens all the time. Maybe introverts just don’t notice it.</p>
<p>I doubt that most introverts would be so rude as to do so.
I know that I wouldn’t unless I knew them, very * very* well., I either wait to be rescued or try & gather the energy to flee.</p>
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<p>Agreed. US culture is very extrovert-centered/driven. </p>
<p>I’ve especially noticed this considering most of my extended family members highly prize introvertedness as a sign of intellect and introspective thoughtfulness. Not too surprisingly, extroverts like myself tend to be given a hard time within the family and yet, find US and other mainstreams culture to be much more friendly and easy to fit into. :)</p>
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<p>Some teachers/Professors I’ve known who are introverts have done precisely that because one or a few obnoxious extroverted students would yammer on to the point other students won’t get a chance to speak or in a few extreme cases…be harsh with less confident/more introverted students to the point of being intimidated into silence.</p>
<p>In one egregious case, I was approached by a group of intimidated undergrads to help them notify my TA friend and the Prof about an older student who was unduly harsh when their responses weren’t perfect according to her standards. </p>
<p>I’ve also done this with a few motormouth friends whom I know have aspirations of becoming teachers/academics and thus, need to learn to speak more concisely and leave room for others…especially students to participate/contribute. </p>
<p>Granted, I don’t usually use the words “shut up” or add expletives. One favorite line I prefer to use instead is “Excuse me, but are you in the running to be the next Fidel Castro?*” Almost everyone gets that hint…</p>
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<li>Well known for giving non-stop speeches lasting several hours.</li>
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<p>In some cases, telling someone to shut up isn’t rude. In some contexts like a classrooms or workplace meetings, it’s necessary to facilitate greater participation and to ensure classes/meetings are somewhat productive.</p>
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<p>Rudely dominating a conversation and not letting others get a word in edgewise in a community setting isn’t a sign of extroversion, though. It’s a sign of obnoxiousness / rudeness, which is present across both introverts and extroverts. Plenty of extroverts are fully able to be extroverted and engage in give and take.</p>
<p>Im not saying it isn’t necessary to get those who suffer from verbal diarrhea to stifle, but in my experience outside of a classroom or work environment where it is appropriate for those in charge to manage discussion, it is still unusual for those who are uncomfortable unless someone/they are talking, to be asked to give others a chance to respond.</p>
<p>The basic rules of CC forums:
- There are no absolutes, so don’t even try to generalize. Ever.
- Even if there is an idea that approaches a generally accepted absolute, cobrat’s cousin or acquaintance will be a counter-example to it.
- For every rule there are exceptions, and the exceptions will be the children of posters.
- The children of posters possess attributes that represent the best side of every coin, and seldom the accompanying worst side of that particular coin.</p>
<p>Someone upthread (sorry, don’t remember who it was) made a comment about introversion/extroversion being somewhat fluid. I tested as an extreme extrovert 20+ years ago, but I find that the older I get the more I crave “alone time”. This could possibly be the result of family demands and a job in which I interact heavily with people all day. OTOH, I have never had a problem being alone, traveling alone, etc. so possibly I was incorrectly typed.</p>
<p>As to the OP’s original post, I have no doubt that your D is talented, but she will need to develop the ability to advocate for herself. I have had to push both of my own kids ( a shy extrovert and an introvert) to get out of their own comfort zones.</p>
<p>Introverts and extroverts definitely exist on a continuum, but I don’t think that it’s only the introverts near the middle who are good at public speaking or being social when required. </p>
<p>I suspect that in some cases the people near the middle have a harder time recognizing that there are differences, because they can sympathize with both “sides” but not completely identify with either. I’m thinking of a friend who said the whole distinction made no sense because the answer to all of the questions on the quiz she took would depend on the situation, so they weren’t good questions. Well, if you’re a strong I or E, very few of the questions will be hard to answer.</p>
<p>In Meyers-Briggs terms I have always tested as a strong I, a strong T, a moderately strong N, and I am totally conflicted on the J/P. And most of the J/P questions seem like stupid questions to me–or at least questions without an obviously correct (for me) answer. I would guess that for anyone near the middle on any of the others it’s much the same.</p>
<p>So no, it’s not an on/off switch and a lot of people may not be clearly one or the other. But that doesn’t mean there aren’t people at the extremes who are very obvious introverts and extroverts–even if it’s not obvious to the casual observer who they are.</p>
<p>1or2Musicians, I’ve taken the MBTI a few times, and I always come out as an ENTJ, but the NT is very strong and the E and J are very weak. So I know what you mean. :)</p>
<p>The first thing to mention is that shyness and introversion are behaviours that can be improved. Some very well known introvert people have gone on to become some of the world’s greatest public speakers.</p>
<p>People from a very young age learn certain behaviours that tend to stick with them until later years unless you start facing up to them as early on as possible and build confidence in the person that nothing is wrong with how they feel and IT IS POSSIBLE do whatever you want from life. It is about tackling these anxieties and fears head on.</p>
<p>I hope your situation has improved since you last posted this and I hope this post gives you the confidence to do your best for your child.</p>
<p>For your information, I am an expert speaking coach and we have courses that have helped many children so please take it from me, you’re child’s introversion can be improved :). Also the other way to look at it is if everyone was the same, wouldn’t it be such a boring place</p>
<p>Dan</p>
<p>Introversion is not a behavior. It describes the way a person gets energized (by having some down time alone) which is different from the way extroverts get energized (by being with other people in a social context). </p>
<p>You are right that introverts can be excellent public speakers. But that does NOTHING to change their underlying introversion. And it doesn’t mean that they won’t have particular needs that can sometimes be difficult to meet while living on campus at college, especially if sharing a room with an extroverted roommate.</p>
<p>I don’t understand why people on this board are so worried about introverted kids having trouble in college. Even at the Ivies, at which extracurriculars may carry major weight in admissions I would dare say that the majority of the students are naturally introverted. I am extremely introverted and go to Penn, a school referred to as the “social Ivy”. However, I have been incredibly successful in college and have developed great relationships with my professors. Most of my friends are also very introverted, some more so than myself and they are also very successful, many of them are the kids who are regularly recognized on campus for their scholastic achievements.</p>
<p>One thing that may have helped me however is that I attended a very large competitive high school. In order to stand out academically and eventually be admitted to an Ivy, I had to learn how to effectively advocate for myself. This is what has allowed me to develop such great relationships with professors in the past four years and become very accomplished within my research group. My main research advisor has told me that he believes I am very quiet and shy, but that has not seemed to affect my performance in any way and he has helped me become more confident over the years.</p>
<p>Poeme, I think you may see a difference in that regard (proportion of students who are introverts) between a school like Penn and a large state school. </p>
<p>In any environment dominated by extroverts, introverts can find certain aspects challenging. I’m not particularly thinking in terms of being able to have successful relationships with other students or professors, or succeed at research presentations etc., but rather more mundane things like living with roommates where it can be hard to find time/space to really be alone and recharge.</p>