<p>My D absolutely loves both Duke and Vanderbilt, and wants to apply to one of them ED. BUT...what about financial aid. We can't afford to send her to either of those unless she gets some decent aid, which we won't know about until after ED comes out. HELP!</p>
<p>I feel your pain. My D was not able to apply ED at her top schools for that exact reason. She did apply EA (or similar non-binding) where it was offered.</p>
<p>I’m sure you know that you can apply ED and then decline if the FA package isn’t affordable… but what you cannot do is wait to compare it to other offers. So if you have a number in mind that you can afford, and your D is certain she wants one over the other. that might work for you. Of course, this assumes that the school will give you an estimated FA offer, and not make you wait until after January 1 FAFSA filing deadline. You might want to call Duke and Vandy and see if they do that. At the EA schools my D applied to, we submitted an ESTIMATED CSS Profile and they gave us an estimated FA offer, subject to changes after the actual FAFSA was filed in January. (The actual offers were the same as estimated.)</p>
<p>We would have done that except that my D had 2-3 schools she thought (at that time) she would have been equally happy at, also we can’t afford our EFC so every dollar counts and the FA comparison was important.</p>
<p>Here’s some info from Peterson’s about the issue: <a href=“College Search | College Finder | Colleges by Major & Location”>http://www.petersons.com/college-search/early-decision-financial-aid.aspx</a></p>
<p>Libcam, I would do a search on the financial aid forum on early decision. It should give lots of opinions and some pitfalls on ED. I personally am not a fan, because there can be such a difference in aid packages. We didn’t apply ED and our aid packages varied by $10,000. It was good to be able to compare. </p>
<p>First run the net price calculator on each school’s web site. If that number makes you blanch, don’t do ED. If you absolutely MUST compare FA offers then don’t apply ED. </p>
<p>If you really want to compare financial aid offers to get the best deal possible, applying ED is a bad idea. But it’s not necessarily a bad idea if your goal is to get enough aid to make that college do-able. And aid will vary a lot more for some people than for others, so it helps to understand which group you are in.</p>
<p>If you are thinking about your child applying ED to Duke or Vanderbilt, the kid is a very good student. (If the kid isn’t already a strong candidate, start thinking about other strategies.) That means he or she ought to have good prospects somewhere RD (if not necessarily Duke or Vanderbilt). It’s really important to have the RD strategy in place, including colleges at various selectivity levels, and understanding their use (or not) of so-called merit aid.</p>
<p>If you apply to Duke or Vanderbilt ED, and are accepted, you will get a specific financial aid offer with the acceptance. You are free to turn down the acceptance if the financial aid package doesn’t work for you. (Of course, you are also free to bargain a bit first with the financial aid office if the gap between what was offered and what you would be willing to take is not huge.) There’s no penalty for turning down that ED acceptance, except one big one – you can’t go back later to the college whose ED acceptance you declined and say on second thought you’ll take it. By and large, you have to say yes or no to the ED college without knowing what other colleges will offer. That’s a terrible problem if you are trying to get the best deal possible, but not a terrible problem if there’s a line you won’t cross, and you know what it is, but you would feel OK as long as you didn’t have to cross that line.</p>
<p>You should be able to get a pretty good idea of what your need-based financial aid offer will be from the net price calculators on the colleges’ websites. The simpler your situation is, the more reliable the information will be. Things that can really make financial aid offers vary, because colleges deal with them differently, include owning your own business (or being a partner in a business), having income that varies a lot year to year, substantial real estate values (home or business, with or without mortgages on everything), substantial retirement savings in accounts that could be accessed (IRAs, 401(k)s and others). You need to do that analysis as best you can for all colleges of interest, ED or RD, so that you will be in a position to make an intelligent decision if you get the ED acceptance.</p>
<p>Another thing you can do to make ED a better option is apply to one or more rolling admission colleges that will give you an answer (and an aid award, or not) before the ED decision date. That lets you at least do some option-comparison before making a decision on the ED school. It’s likely to be a comparison between a first choice and a safety, but it’s still helpful in giving you confidence with whatever decision you make on the ED acceptance.</p>
<p>I don’t know whether it is still true but Vandy used to be need blind and guaranteed to meet 100% of need without loans. As JHS said, they use the CSS profile and THEY determine your need (not a third party like the FAFSA). If you are self employed, have a lot of assets, have rental property etc. it can make it difficult for you to determine what your EFC might really be. I haven’t heard that Duke makes the same guarantee. From a strictly financial standpoint, assuming that Vandy still makes the same guarantees and that Duke does not, I think Vandy would be the safer bet if you are confident in a lower EFC. As someone else mentioned you could apply to Duke (and of course some matches and financial safeties) RD and if Vandy either does not except your child ED or does not provide the necessary FA then you still have the other potential options open. </p>
<p>Here is the thing: if it’s so important to you that your DD get into one of those schools, that the only question is whether it is doable for the family, the go ahead. You can then look at the fin aid package and if it is impossible to do, you can’t swing it. If it’s doable, you start looking for a buyer for your kidney if that 's what it takes. You want it badly enough that you will make it work if it’s possible. I know people who feel that way about certain schools, and for them getting a kid into one of the is the be all to end all. </p>
<p>But what if you want the school, yes, but half price for Vanderbilt would make you give up Duke for full price in a heart beat. You don’t really have a figure in mind. You want this for your DD and you may end up giving in with those puppy dog eyes begging you when the ED acceptance and inadequate aid package is on the table, and the school won’t budge for whatever reason. And yes, this happens , especially with self employed folks Was a case on the board, where a kid didn’t get a dime out of ED Swarthmore which is a very generous school even upon appeal, but then Carlton or some other school looked at the picture a different way, and he got money there. A lot. In his case it was easy to turn down Swarthmore, because it just was not doable at all, but had Swarthmore thrown in, say $20K, the family might have busted their hump and really scrimped to buy him that dream, when all the while there was another LAC willing to pay most of the tab. They would have simply not known about that option. There is a momentum that comes with applying ED that is hard to surmount when you are emotionally involved with the process.</p>
<p>So your DD gets into Duke, not not much money but you are determined to make it work with loans and putting out everyone else in the family. And you are praying things work out Then you find out that a bunch of kids who are no where as up there as your DD are going to Vanderbilt with more than twice as much in aid/ merit as she has gotten. And your mouth falls open because you are pretty certain that your DD shines in that group and would have had a shot at one of those merit scholarships had she had her app in the ring. </p>
<p>On the other hand she applies to V, gets an alright fin aid package which gets offset by the a merit award, so it’s ok but not great, and she sees others who got into Duke and their aid was fantastic. You and she have no idea how the schools would have panned out Until it’s all on the table, you don’t know what will turn your head, and you don’t know how much money will be on the line. You also lose a lot of leveraging in appeals because you can’t show a like school offer looking at your business differently and giving a lot more money.</p>
<p>When Princeton had ED, I knew some kids who got in that way with fin aid and their parents would not have cared if they were giving up a full ride ANYWHERE for paying full price at P, because it was that much worth it to them. They’d have cut off that right arm on the spot to get their kid in there. They were going to make it work regardless of price. You feel that way, ED is fine. </p>
<p>Our financial aid packages varied by $25,000: not merit, aid. I was really surprised at the differences. </p>
<p>A lot of us old time parents on the board, have written about this a number of times, how surprising the range of awards can be even from like schools.</p>
<p>The traditional advice has been “if you need to compare offers, don’t apply ED” for many good reasons. But, if you have an uncomplicated financial profile and your household income is under $100,000 in most cases your best package is one that will come from a full-need met school with a big endowment, in other words a school where admissions are highly competitive and ED candidates tend to have a slight advantage. YMMV, but one of my regrets for D13 is that we didn’t allow her to apply ED. The merit offers she got were not as good as the one full-need met/high endowment college where she was accepted. The regret comes from wondering if she would have been admitted to one of the schools where she was wait listed if we’d let her go ED. She’s happy where she is, so it all works out, but I do think the low acceptance rate at many colleges with great need based aid has complicated the discussion.</p>
<p>Ivvcsf…the colleges are every bit a third party as the FAFSA folks. The FAFSA has a very strict formula for determining federally funded need based aid…which really is the Pell Grant if you are talking grants. Your Pell would be identical at every college to which you apply. </p>
<p>Not so with aid from Profile Schools. These schools each have their own formula for determining need based institutional aid awards. These awards can vary by many thousands of dollars from full need Profile School to full need Profile School. And if you then consider adding in the Profile schools that do NOT guarantee to meet full need, you will have even more difference potentially.</p>
<p>I would strongly suggest the OP run the net price calculators for these colleges. This will give you a good guestimate of your net price to attend these schools, and your potential aid. Keep in mind that if your family has parents who are self employed or own a business, you own real estate other than your primary residence, or have divorced parents…the net price calculators are not particularly accurate.</p>
<p>When you apply ED, if you get accepted, you have a very short window of time to accept the offer. Yes, you can decline if your aid is not sufficient. BUT you will have no comparisons to make. The ED offer could be your child’s best offer…or it could be worse than other schools might have offered. </p>
<p>Problem is that owing a business can be a real curve ball in NPC accuracy. </p>
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<p>Better to use the Net Price Calculator for each school to get a financial aid estimate each school for your family finances, rather than relying on “meet full need” promises.</p>
<p>You also need a tough sitdown with your checkbook, few years tax returns, and a spreadsheet of your recurring outlays plus variable expenses. It’s all very well and good to get aid which is close to what you predicted on the Net Price Calculators, but if you can’t afford your piece of the payments (the EFC) it’s an exercise in futility. DON’T assume that the school will “work with you”. Maybe they will and maybe they won’t.</p>
<p>If you calculate that using savings, current cash flow, and a small parent loan, you can afford 10K per year, and every NPC shows you affording 30K per year, and you have absolutely no idea where you can tweak your budget for the extra 20K- well, better to know right now than in December.</p>
<p>Agree with Blossom. It is important for each family to have a bottom line amount they feel they CAN contribute. Very often, the family contribution calculated by the colleges, and what the family feels comfortable with do not align. So…do YOUR financials and figure out a budget for college, and remember it is a four year commitment…at least. Then run the net price calculator and see how close you are to what the schools think you can pay.</p>
<p>Lol thumper1, I never think what the college thought I could pay and what I thought I could comfortably pay were the same. </p>
<p>As an esteemed poster called it, EFC Every Effing Cent. 
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<p>I think the early decision schools tell you what aid they give you with their decision. That was the case with ours. Call the schools.</p>
<p>thumper1: I understand and I guess I stated it poorly. I’ve said in the past I don’t like the term EFC because I think it misleads people as to the purpose of the FAFSA. The CSS profile probably does more accurately determine what an individual school thinks you should contribute but most schools are not inclined to fill the gap without loans. Our EFC with CWRU was about 2.5 times what it was with the FAFSA. We are self employed and have some home equity as well as some savings. However, the financial/scholarship offered by case was significantly better than their NPC predicted. The first thing any student and their parents must determine is what they can afford. They must also be ready to say “No” if the school doesn’t meet the financial criteria. I’m not a fan of ED unless one knows they can fully pay for the school. However, for certain circumstances, it can work out for lower EFC students. They really have to do their homework and of course be ready to say “No”. </p>
<p>We determined ahead of time what we could afford for 4 years and how much we expected D to borrow. CWRU, while the most expensive school she was accepted to, ended up being the 3rd least expensive school she was accepted to and 1 of 4 (she was accepted to 5) that we determined we could afford. In the end D chose another school but not the cheapest. </p>
<p>“When you apply ED, if you get accepted, you have a very short window of time to accept the offer. Yes, you can decline if your aid is not sufficient. BUT you will have no comparisons to make. The ED offer could be your child’s best offer…or it could be worse than other schools might have offered.”</p>
<p>The thing is if your using ED appropriately you have already determined that if this school meets what you expect you can afford you will attend that school. You have given up comparing schools strictly on cost. What other schools MIGHT have offered you is irrelevant. If price is a consideration beyond affordability then you should not be applying ED. </p>
<p>FAFSA EFC is usually the LEAST you will be expected to pay, and the LEAST you HAVE to pay before getting a dime of federal subsidies, including subsidized loans and workstudy. Most school have other things they tap that FAFSA does not, and those self employed really get hit hard as a lot of deductions are added back as well as any amoritzations and even assets as many PROFILE schools will come up with a value for your business. That’s why going ED is particularly risky when one is self employed. There is no telling how the school is going to view your income and assets.</p>