<p>I recently committed fully to Princeton through my declining Yale's invitation off the waitlsit. It was a difficult decision, but I felt that I made the right choice in choosing Princeton. It has been my number one choice since I began the process of applying to college, and still remains so. I love the campus, the students, the general feel of the college, and I even find the misrepresented stereotypes surrounding Princeton to be rather endearing as well. Truthfully, I feel blessed to be able to attend such an incredible institution. </p>
<p>My one and only qualm with Princeton, however, is the infamous grade deflation. It's perhaps the only factor that made committing to Princeton a difficult decision in the first place. I've read many horror stories online from undergraduate students who claimed that the grade deflation in Princeton made pursuing graduate schools and employment post-graduate more difficult than a comparable university (such as Yale). Of course, I know that every upper tier university will be difficult in terms of grading, but statistically, Princeton graduates have the lowest GPAs in the Ivy League by a considerable margin (3.28, as opposed to the second lowest, 3.36 at Cornell and the highest, 3.61 at Brown)</p>
<p>In particular, I've seen figures thrown about by everyone's favorite Princeton troll, hippo2718 and his many alternate accounts, which show that Princeton graduates have weaker placement at elite professional and graduate schools (ie. 39 students attending Harvard Law as opposed to Harvard having 80 students). This worries me a bit, as although I understand Princeton sends a pamphlet explaining the grading policy to potential graduate school admissions councilors and employers, I find it hard to believe that a 3.28 at Princeton will be seen equally as a 3.51 at Yale (their median). </p>
<p>So, my question to those attending Princeton currently: what is your advice in terms of ensuring grade deflation does not hamper your chances at pursuing post-graduate schools and employment opportunity? Given that Princeton still is highly regarded and sends many accomplished students to elite graduate schools and have a great post-graduate employment rate, is grade deflation as big a deal as people make it out to be?</p>
<p>Fellow member of your class here, so I have as much credibility to speak on the academic experience, but I will say that success is in the real world isn’t determined by GPA or alma mater. The only thing that does matter is one’s ability to make competent decisions in a decisive manner. </p>
<p>Just think about grade deflation as a mechanic that will encourage you to adopt a work ethic that will be conducive to a successful career. As a Marine sergeant, I can easily tell when my troops attempt to skate by and do the minimum amount of work. Civilian employers are no exception. </p>
<p>Life is bound to throw (sometimes perceived) adverse conditions at you. As an adult, you’re the captain of your destiny. Whether you rise or fall is dependent on your ability to adapt and overcome. </p>
<p>I didn’t chase medals, ribbons, or rank during my time in the Corps, otherwise I would’ve gone insane. Rather, those things came as a natural consequence to effort and personal merit. Reflect on what exactly an “A” means. If you strive to be the best/exceptional/outstanding in your studies, you’ll be fine. Ideally, if you’re solely worried about your personal development, then a (possibly) arbitrary grading criteria should be of little to no consequence.</p>
<p>I think princeton’s grade deflation will hurt one’s chance of gaining admission into ‘GPA heavy’ areas such as medical or law school. Although many top tier law and med schools take into account the rigor of ones undergraduate institution, the simple fact is that they like higher GPAs more than prestigious undergrads. Think about it. Law schools and med schools publish the GPA of applicants who were succesful in gaining admission but usually never publish data about where their students come from. I transferred from a regionally strong school to an ivy and can guarantee you that almost all the pre-meds at my ivy are stronger than the students from my previous regional school. Yet, half at the ivy will eventually be weeded out and will not be able to make it into med school wheras they probably would have made it had they gone to a lesser school.</p>
<p>Think about it this way. The avg GPA of a pre-professional at princeton is around 3.2-3.3…most princeton applicants who are successful at gaining admission to a professional school ( mainly speaking about med school, probably still works for law) is around 3.5. According to princeton review, med schools generally give 0.1-.2 bonus to a student from an ivy or chicago, duke, etc. That means, an applicant from Boston College with a 3.6-3.7 will stand roughly the same chance as you if you graduate princeton with a 3.5. This however is total ******** because getting a 3.5 at princeton is much harder than getting a 3.65 at BC. It sucks, but sometimes you just have to bite the bullet.</p>
<p>The above statement is valid assuming you allow yourself to be a victim of statistical averages. The negligible GPA consideration for more prestigious institutions makes sense. I don’t think medical and law schools want to send the message that if you come from an illustrious undergrad background, you can just rest on your laurels and cruise into grad school. </p>
<p>A key part of being a professional is never settling for less than what you’re capable of.</p>
<p>Just keep in mind that there are homeless Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Stanford grads. You gotta work hard in college and that’s that. Keep in mind, Princeton still has grade INFLATION. No matter how “untalented” you are at a certain class, if you work hard you will get a B/B+. That’s a far cry from places like Berkeley that punish students with a C bell curve.</p>
<p>Also, remember that the president who oversaw the installment of grade deflation (it was mostly the dean’s work though) was Shirley Tilghman, a science person through and through (Mol Bio professor). Thus, the argument that grade deflation is actually GRADE EQUALITY makes sense. Now, engineers have the same average GPAs as history majors. Now, as a STEM major, I have a decent shot at getting into PBK (honor society for top ten percent GPA) whereas in the past my departments average GPA would be significantly lower than that of a history major’s GPA. This is what’s happening at, for example, Yale. Yale’s STEM majors have average GPAs that are much lower than those of their humanities majors (say 3.3 vs 3.9) and as such it is unfair for STEM majors. That’s not the case at Princeton.</p>
<p>A couple thoughts. One is that if you and I and countless others on CC are aware of Princeton’s grading policy, undoubtedly employers and graduate schools across the country are aware of the same. For fun, someone created a website so Princetonians grieving their gpa’s could see what it compared to at Harvard [gradedeflation.com</a> - Home](<a href=“http://gradedeflation.com/]gradedeflation.com”>http://gradedeflation.com/)</p>
<p>Remember that almost every single person at Princeton was a high school straight-A student (yes I know a few exceptions exist) and the presence of a B or heaven forbid a C or worse on a final grade is at first nearly apocalyptic. It’s hard not to look for a place for the blame to land. </p>
<p>alot of people seem to be saying that grade deflation is good because it puts all majors on equal playing fields. Which is all well and good but the downside is that all schools are not implementing princeton’s strategy (or berkeley’s which is apparently more strict). Hardworking students at princeton will now be less succesful in gaining admission into professional schools because professional schools care more about a fluffy GPA than the conditions a student had in college (i.e, tougher competition for good grades at princeton). I am not saying i would want students to coast by at princeton and rely on their prestigious undergrad to get them through. But it is unfair that a student can work just as hard at princeton as at a lesser tier school and end up more successful by going to that lower tier school.</p>
<p>^not as much as it should be. Many reputable sources say professional schools adjust 0.1-0.2 GPA bonus for a top university applicant compared to a lower tier school applicant. Anyone who has attended a top school and a lower tier school will tell you 0.1-0.2 is not appropriate. It’s more like 0.4.</p>
<p>Grade deflation at Princeton isn’t even that bad as long as you give it your 100%. It’s places like MIT and Caltech you should worry about where, even if you give it your 100%, you may not necessarily get even the median GPA. Talk about serious grade deflation right there.</p>
<p>Just an observation regarding comments about equalizing GPAs between social science/humanities majors vs. STEM majors. </p>
<p>Forcing redistribution of grades seems arbitrary. The marketplace will already reward the “tougher” majors that have lower mean GPAs with jobs at the end of 4 years because of an emphasis on the tech skills and the specialization that those degrees reflect. The “softer” majors historically earned the “higher” GPAs, but students knew at the end of 4 years they would earn starting salaries well below the average STEM majors. It is a self-selected trade-off known to all in the education and employment worlds.</p>
<p>So it seems silly for an institution to “average” out performance across majors when it has no control over hiring decisions of outside institutions that will NOT average out starting salaries across majors. The slightly better GPAs in non-STEM depts made it possible for a resume to have consideration in the marketplace and a glance for other skill sets that the applicant might possess. </p>
<p>Do employers care what your GPA is at Princeton vs. Yale vs. Brown or anywhere else? Who really knows? But, I’d posit they’d take the 3.1 in a STEM field over a 3.1 in a humanities or Social Science field because they KNOW that it had to be a greater challenge and those are the skills rewarded by the marketplace today with higher starting salaries. Evidence probably would show that a 2.9 in a STEM major would have a better shot at a job than a 3.4 in anthropology regardless of the institution at which it was earned.</p>
<p>To address the OP, entering a university like Princeton, your mind should be directed on the learning process and the personal development that comes from challenging yourself at the highest possible level. Don’t focus on grades, focus on the actual reason you are attending a university like Princeton. If you’re concerned solely about GPA, many other choices in the marketplace may have been better suited for that focus.</p>
<p>Harvard et al will always win in terms of raw number of admits to top graduate schools because it’s a bigger school. Not because of its grade inflation.</p>
<p>FYI:
— Apparently Dartmouth indicates the course’s median grade on students’ transcripts to combat grade inflation. One can have a kickass GPA (say 3.7) but an awful transcript. Imagine the median grade for a course is 95…and you get a 90. What does that say about you? Thus, either professors there are encouraged to keep median grades down so as to not make the course seem silly or students have weird looking (in a negative way) transcripts.
— Cornell used to publish median grades as well…however they’re not exactly known for easy grading anyways.
— Finally, Yale will be considering sweeping grading policy changes in the fall. Maybe they’ll institute the median publishing policy or institute some guidelines to limit the number of A’s. I doubt Salovey and the other admins want Yale to be known as an “easy school” but with 62 percent of grades being A’s…</p>
<p>And that’s just the Ivy League. Princeton’s grading policies are no harsher than those in place at MIT, UChicago, Caltech, Berkeley…etc. If you want to go to college to learn and develop academically you won’t let sensationalized viewpoints of Princeton’s grading policy get in your way.</p>
<p>Your grades will be fine. If you’re a STEM major, your GPA won’t be that different and the opportunities that you’ll take advantage of at each institution will be basically the same. It seems like you chose based on which school you preferred, which is what you should do.</p>
<p>And, can I just say that as a STEM major who attends Yale (and yes, who turned down Princeton), very few people at Yale care about latin honors. By the time such honors are announced, most people already have job offers or graduate school positions. Just focus in your classes, learn as much as you can, and your GPA will be a side product of all of that.</p>
<p>I think there are two ways to approach this well-tread topic.</p>
<p>(1) Employers don’t give a fk about your GPA.** No, really. Assuming you have skills they want–whether that be programming ability or simply gregariousness–you’re probably good to go. The signaling effect of Princeton will go a long way in securing you a job. I have friends whose transcripts were littered with C’s and D’s whom are gainfully employed. When applying for internships this summer, I was not once, in many interviews, asked about my GPA. I was asked about my activities, programming ability, and writing ability. </p>
<p>Same holds true for grad school, where recs and research matter much more than GPA. Professional schools, however, care a great deal about GPA.</p>
<p>(2) You can still get A’s. The psychological impact of grade deflation is, I think, bigger than the actual effect. People resign themselves to getting B’s when they just don’t have to. So make friends with the kids getting A’s, figure out what they’re doing right, and your GPA will be nice and shiny. And, because of grade deflation, that high GPA will mean more to employers and grad schools.</p>
<p>Honestly, as a student, I don’t think grade deflation is as terrible as students make it out to be. It’s something that’s easy to place your frustrations on, but it’s effects are not going to hugely affect your life in college. I’ve only seen it’s effects be obvious in certain language classes or classes that are too easy. While I don’t know that I would say I love grade deflation, it has its purpose. What’s the point of an A if everyone gets one? Princeton students virtually never feel like they were just given an A. A’s are an immensely satisfying accomplishment because you know you worked hard enough to deserve it. Also, while grades are important, they aren’t the end all. You’ll be at a school that will be constantly challenging you, forcing you to grow academically and personally. I think that’s worth more than a brand name med or law school (though if you do well at Princeton you can still go to one of those).</p>
<p>i visited the school this past week and asked about grade deflation. I was told that the university caps the amount of A’s that can be given to 35%. For STEM majors, this isn’t a problem, but as mentioned before, for humanities majors this has a bigger effect. With that said, I’m a prospective applicant looking to get a humanities major in the Class of 2018 and Pton is still one of my top choices.</p>
<p>I strongly feel that there should be considerable grade deflation at a highly selective university like Princeton. As the student body is exemplary, the college should focus on providing an academically challenging environment. You go to colllege to acquire skills and learn, not for job placement.</p>
It’s hard not to look for a place for the blame to land. </p>